EPTeasy to take 4th and long rush distances mean any hydra pushes take awhile to arrive
[D] PvZ - Establishing third with Skytoss (viable?) - Page…
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
easy to take 4th and long rush distances mean any hydra pushes take awhile to arrive | ||
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HelioSeven
United States193 Posts
On June 20 2012 10:15 -MoOsE- wrote: this strat is so good on condemmed ridge easy to take 4th and long rush distances mean any hydra pushes take awhile to arrive Depends on the spawn locations. Taking the high ground 4th (the vertically middle bases) is usually pretty easy, the horizontally middle expansions are pretty wide open though, and can be tough to defend. | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 20 2012 03:42 Fogetaboudit wrote: http://drop.sc/200548 new game vs BM player I guess not taking a risk all game, and playing a macro game, is the new "cheese" haha That was a fun game, had a healthy laught. I just wanted to note some things. I really like how you upgraded your style, but there are some poins i noted. You get WG first, but don't actually warp-in anything until 27th minute of the game =) Maybe it's better to get +1 air first. You should've gotten archons when saw him going mass corruptor (if you'd have 3 archon with you on the fight at the top right, when 3 VR survived and he muta-shifted, you would destroy him ezpz) Just thoughts. GG | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
http://drop.sc/200962 | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
is this a viable way to combat a hatch/evo block? Basically I made what ended up being a macro nexus, it slowed me down a little bit but the extra chrono/supply/probe production is good. | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On June 21 2012 00:46 Fogetaboudit wrote: http://drop.sc/200987 is this a viable way to combat a hatch/evo block? Basically I made what ended up being a macro nexus, it slowed me down a little bit but the extra chrono/supply/probe production is good. I think if you weren't going for a fast mothership, the macro nexus would be completely terrible. But since you happened to be going Skytoss and a fast mothership is insanely strong on that map, it seemed to me like a pretty good response to a hatch-block. You had a pretty sick probe lead for a good period of time and then you were able to build 2 probes at a time while boosting a mothership with triple chrono potential. I think it's a good call if you're on a map where the 1 stargate with minimal units into fast mothership is strong--I like this for Ohana and probably Entombed Valley, but not so much for Daybreak. Although it might not be bad to put the macro nexus right up by the low ramp on that map, where it can serve another function as a giant barricade--I really like walling off by the secondary ramp there and on Cloud Kingdom and perhaps that's a way to make the macro nexus work on those maps. I suppose it is a fringe situation, but we're talking about opening 17 nexus, so it's a pretty wide-open option for the zerg to do. | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
My build is open w/ +1 zealot 4 gate pressure take 2 stargates and a fleet beacon make 2 voids to deflect roach counter. take third with cannons. then make like 5 phoenix to harass start air ups and then go 4 stargate 2 voids adn 2 carriers at a time Take a fourth once you push back their first maxed attack. go to storm and you should be able to win with your next push. | ||
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Kommatiazo
United States579 Posts
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
On June 20 2012 08:18 M00sejuice wrote: It was really fun to watch the resources lost tab :D But seriously this strat is awesome. It may be far too early to tell but I wonder what HoTS will do to this strat. I think it will still be viable but it will ultimately depend on how fast you can tech to the mothership core in order to do recall harass. I think it'll be viable, and even more powerful, in HOTS. Add some oracles and tempests and Zergs are going to be in a lot of trouble. Hydras timings may become slightly more powerful but other than that, they'll still suck vs air, and I don't really see what vipers can do versus such an air army. Ahah that guy in the replay was funny, calling that a cheese, when it's actually like the ultimate macro game. I love how he threatened to post the replay on TL, rofl. Too bad you lost your whole army to corruptors, that's why I like to have my templars when I move out with my first maxed army. I played a game the other day, the guy hadn't even lost that he started to call the strat "useless", and that it wasn't worth his time to play against. He just left in the middle of the game. Sad :o | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 21 2012 05:22 Nyast wrote: I think it'll be viable, and even more powerful, in HOTS. Add some oracles and tempests and Zergs are going to be in a lot of trouble. Hydras timings may become slightly more powerful but other than that, they'll still suck vs air, and I don't really see what vipers can do versus such an air army. Let's just hope they won't remove carrier. Cuz oracle will make this strat enormosly strong. | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
On June 21 2012 08:55 -MoOsE- wrote: Ok I'm having a problem when they are going mass roach, they can deny my third so long it seems like I just lose. What are yall doing against this? Replay plz. Only way you get any benefit. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On June 21 2012 08:55 -MoOsE- wrote: Ok I'm having a problem when they are going mass roach, they can deny my third so long it seems like I just lose. What are yall doing against this? depending on how hard they commit to roach its acceptable to take building and eco damage. Your army is never traded, just sim city as best you can and place cannons as best you can. You can lose a Nexus and still be quite far ahead depending on his investment... need replay to be more specific. | ||
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smokingkipper
United Kingdom7 Posts
Specifically does anyone have any replays of them holding a successful roach hydra push with several overseers around 12-13 mins? Does it just come down to Vortexing the Hydra (or half the hydra) army? I also have difficulty when they open 2 base spire, get several mutalisks out and pepper the flock with a couple of Corruptors. Also what would you do if they split up half their Hydras, one to go for natural, the other, your third? Thanks for your time chaps, I would be grateful to have some help! (also, first post :p ) | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
I'm suprised your winrate is so bad, if executed well you should only be losing to people about a full league higher imo. | ||
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HelioSeven
United States193 Posts
On June 22 2012 05:43 smokingkipper wrote: I really do love this build, I have spent a little time trying it and have had about 50% success with it *if I can get far enough into the game*. What I would really like is some replays of the Protoss holding early pressure. The kind that comes around when you have maybe 5 Voids out. Specifically does anyone have any replays of them holding a successful roach hydra push with several overseers around 12-13 mins? Does it just come down to Vortexing the Hydra (or half the hydra) army? I also have difficulty when they open 2 base spire, get several mutalisks out and pepper the flock with a couple of Corruptors. Also what would you do if they split up half their Hydras, one to go for natural, the other, your third? Thanks for your time chaps, I would be grateful to have some help! (also, first post :p ) I just recently lost a game at that 12-13 minute mark to the roach/hydra push designed to take down the third (one of my only losses to Zerg in the last few weeks), but it was pretty retarded on my part because all my voids were away doing harass and he sniped my mothership before I could get the mass recall. By and large, as long as you have 6-10 chargelots in the way, 4 or 5 cannons at your 3rd with the mothership floating over it, and 4 or 5 voids, you should be absolutely fine. Just snipe the overseers and protect the mothership as best you can, you shouldn't even really need the vortex. Regarding 2 base spire, you should pretty much never lose against that. With the stargate first opening you should always build one phoenix right off the bat and scout. For a 2 base spire build, that scout should give you all the information you need, at which point you should just get out 4-5 phoenixes, chrono boost range and +1, and you should be absolutely fine. You should basically never lose to muta with a stargate first build, even with a few corruptors mixed in (as they are slow as hell and generally can't engage phoenix ever). As a general rule of thumb, void rays are good against corruptors and phoenixes are good against mutas. Bear in mind that phoenixes are the fastest unit in the game, so they should allow you to choose your engagements. | ||
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smokingkipper
United Kingdom7 Posts
I would *love* to make this a successful move. (and would LOVE to be able to do something like this in all matchups ;p) On June 22 2012 06:55 HelioSeven wrote: I just recently lost a game at that 12-13 minute mark to the roach/hydra push designed to take down the third (one of my only losses to Zerg in the last few weeks), but it was pretty retarded on my part because all my voids were away doing harass and he sniped my mothership before I could get the mass recall. By and large, as long as you have 6-10 chargelots in the way, 4 or 5 cannons at your 3rd with the mothership floating over it, and 4 or 5 voids, you should be absolutely fine. Just snipe the overseers and protect the mothership as best you can, you shouldn't even really need the vortex. Regarding 2 base spire, you should pretty much never lose against that. With the stargate first opening you should always build one phoenix right off the bat and scout. For a 2 base spire build, that scout should give you all the information you need, at which point you should just get out 4-5 phoenixes, chrono boost range and +1, and you should be absolutely fine. You should basically never lose to muta with a stargate first build, even with a few corruptors mixed in (as they are slow as hell and generally can't engage phoenix ever). As a general rule of thumb, void rays are good against corruptors and phoenixes are good against mutas. Bear in mind that phoenixes are the fastest unit in the game, so they should allow you to choose your engagements. Here is a replay of me losing to Roach Hyrda. I was at my 3rd with my Mothership and all my army, he came along with too many Overseers for me to take out quickly. http://drop.sc/202108 Is this is a case of my Macro not being up to snuff? I was pumping out 4 Voidrays at a time but was mineral heavy (arn't we all with this build?). I would love your feedback on this! Thanks for the info regarding early spire. I will open with 1 scouting Phoenix from now on and weigh it up from there. | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
On June 22 2012 06:55 HelioSeven wrote: Regarding 2 base spire, you should pretty much never lose against that. With the stargate first opening you should always build one phoenix right off the bat and scout. For a 2 base spire build, that scout should give you all the information you need, at which point you should just get out 4-5 phoenixes, chrono boost range and +1, and you should be absolutely fine. You should basically never lose to muta with a stargate first build, even with a few corruptors mixed in (as they are slow as hell and generally can't engage phoenix ever). Reminds me a pretty hilarious game where I basically went paranoiac with mutas. I scouted an early spire, so I mass produced phoenixes ( not just 5, more like.. 20 of them ). The guy never made more than 5 mutas. Only corruptors. Needless to say, 20 phoenixes versus 12+ corruptors are quite useless. Yeah they couldn't catch up to my phoenixes but I couldn't really harass either ( spores and queens everywhere ), so they were dead weight, and significantly delayed my production of carriers/voidrays. If I remember well I ended up winning that game, but that was pretty lucky on my part. | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 22 2012 07:23 smokingkipper wrote: First of all, and to qualify what I say below, I am only at Platinum level, so this is absolutely an issue with my execution and not a beef I have with the build. I would *love* to make this a successful move. (and would LOVE to be able to do something like this in all matchups ;p) Here is a replay of me losing to Roach Hyrda. I was at my 3rd with my Mothership and all my army, he came along with too many Overseers for me to take out quickly. http://drop.sc/202108 Is this is a case of my Macro not being up to snuff? I was pumping out 4 Voidrays at a time but was mineral heavy (arn't we all with this build?). I would love your feedback on this! Thanks for the info regarding early spire. I will open with 1 scouting Phoenix from now on and weigh it up from there. Hi there. I've seen the replay and actually you were doing really, really fine and would be able to hold this push easy, if not some important details. 1. Losing 5 VR in early agression. You really overcomitted on pure VR pressure 2. Getting carriers. 1 or 2 would made enormous difference. 3. You only had 2! cannons at your third Here's a screen from some old game of my, I'm seriously overcomitting on cannons, but it should give you the idea. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qAUzD.jpg) | ||
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HelioSeven
United States193 Posts
On June 22 2012 15:09 Rimak wrote: Hi there. I've seen the replay and actually you were doing really, really fine and would be able to hold this push easy, if not some important details. 1. Losing 5 VR in early agression. You really overcomitted on pure VR pressure 2. Getting carriers. 1 or 2 would made enormous difference. 3. You only had 2! cannons at your third Here's a screen from some old game of my, I'm seriously overcomitting on cannons, but it should give you the idea. This is more or less on point. Don't lose so many void rays, and transition to carriers after 6 or 8 are out. His example of cannons is a little overkill, but you should at least have 4-5. Extra minerals can be dumped into zealots (you should have 3 or 4 gateways for that purpose). | ||
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