|
On August 20 2012 16:44 Typhoon1789 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:25 Daimai wrote:
So I play this style a lot, and my biggest problem is handling lategame infestor/corruptor/brood lord/spore/spine.
What do you guys do against this? What is the ultimate lategame comp? I pull it off with 3/3 carriers. Once or if they die by that time i usually have 15+ gateways aswell and just do full warpins of zealots/stalkers if needed to eaither reinforce or kill hatches. I think the staple for late game air toss is to have them gateways very late game. Your gonna end up having alot of minerals so you may aswell use them somewhere.
I think carriers are shit vs corruptors.. :/ What league are you in?
Do you have a thourough description of a typical engagement? Like what you do with the carriers and what your general lategame comp is.
|
On August 20 2012 16:25 Daimai wrote:
So I play this style a lot, and my biggest problem is handling lategame infestor/corruptor/brood lord/spore/spine.
What do you guys do against this? What is the ultimate lategame comp?
Ultimate late-game composition is about 8-10 Carriers with +3 attack, a Mothership, maybe 6-8 Templar for Storms and feedback, and the rest of the army supply in Archons. Of course, you do need to handle your army correctly. Archons should be primarily focused on splashing Corrupter balls, and Templar's main purpose should be to get rid of Infestor energy, and add DPS on Corrupter balls if you have the micro to both focus the Archons and land Storms.
At some point, you need to be sending Zealots or DTs into his mining bases with warp prisms to wear his economy down, and eventually you will make it so that he has to fight you or bleed out.
|
On August 20 2012 17:42 Daimai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:44 Typhoon1789 wrote:On August 20 2012 16:25 Daimai wrote:
So I play this style a lot, and my biggest problem is handling lategame infestor/corruptor/brood lord/spore/spine.
What do you guys do against this? What is the ultimate lategame comp? I pull it off with 3/3 carriers. Once or if they die by that time i usually have 15+ gateways aswell and just do full warpins of zealots/stalkers if needed to eaither reinforce or kill hatches. I think the staple for late game air toss is to have them gateways very late game. Your gonna end up having alot of minerals so you may aswell use them somewhere. I think carriers are shit vs corruptors.. :/ What league are you in? Do you have a thourough description of a typical engagement? Like what you do with the carriers and what your general lategame comp is.
Carriers are weak against corruptors, but there are plenty of things that are strong against corruptors that you don't really need to worry about it. Void rays are great in low numbers, in higher numbers, archons and HTs w/ storm fill that role. Carriers have plenty of range, so just sit them back far enough that the archons/HTs can keep the corruptors away from your carriers.
I agree with SidewinderSC2's assessment of late-game composition, for the most part. I typically go a little heavier on the carriers, more towards 12-14, and then the rest archon/HT. Keeping 10-20 supply free for zealot/DT drops/warp-ins to harass your opponents mining bases is always a great idea, but obviously requires a lot of micro at a stage of the game where your APM is no doubt already stretched pretty thin.
On August 20 2012 17:09 Wasihasi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 09:48 ineversmile wrote:
I personally go double forge Chargelot+constant Phoenix and Immortal/Warp Prism production off of gateways+1 Staragate+1 Robo. I do this against Terran, too- Could you please post some replays of this vs terran?
Seconding this. Would really like to see some replays of this style, sounds awesome and I look forward to trying it out, but some replays to get me started in the right direction would definitely help.
|
On August 21 2012 05:11 HelioSeven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 17:42 Daimai wrote:On August 20 2012 16:44 Typhoon1789 wrote:On August 20 2012 16:25 Daimai wrote:
So I play this style a lot, and my biggest problem is handling lategame infestor/corruptor/brood lord/spore/spine.
What do you guys do against this? What is the ultimate lategame comp? I pull it off with 3/3 carriers. Once or if they die by that time i usually have 15+ gateways aswell and just do full warpins of zealots/stalkers if needed to eaither reinforce or kill hatches. I think the staple for late game air toss is to have them gateways very late game. Your gonna end up having alot of minerals so you may aswell use them somewhere. I think carriers are shit vs corruptors.. :/ What league are you in? Do you have a thourough description of a typical engagement? Like what you do with the carriers and what your general lategame comp is. Carriers are weak against corruptors, but there are plenty of things that are strong against corruptors that you don't really need to worry about it. Void rays are great in low numbers, in higher numbers, archons and HTs w/ storm fill that role. Carriers have plenty of range, so just sit them back far enough that the archons/HTs can keep the corruptors away from your carriers. I agree with SidewinderSC2's assessment of late-game composition, for the most part. I typically go a little heavier on the carriers, more towards 12-14, and then the rest archon/HT. Keeping 10-20 supply free for zealot/DT drops/warp-ins to harass your opponents mining bases is always a great idea, but obviously requires a lot of micro at a stage of the game where your APM is no doubt already stretched pretty thin. Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 17:09 Wasihasi wrote:On August 17 2012 09:48 ineversmile wrote:
I personally go double forge Chargelot+constant Phoenix and Immortal/Warp Prism production off of gateways+1 Staragate+1 Robo. I do this against Terran, too- Could you please post some replays of this vs terran? Seconding this. Would really like to see some replays of this style, sounds awesome and I look forward to trying it out, but some replays to get me started in the right direction would definitely help.
I only do this on my smurf (dia league toss) but it felt pretty good to have like 4-8 void rays in a different control group, to harass expos or in battles only pull them into range when corrupter start to focus ur carriers. but i agree on HT/archons. carriers+htarchon is pretty hard to engage for zerg with mass corrupter
|
Boy, this strategy...it's quite something.
My winrate in PvZ has gone from like 50ish% to 99%, it's unbelievable.
Only gold though so my execution is faaaaar from perfect but not a single zerg knows how to react to it, it's hilarious!
|
On August 20 2012 17:09 Wasihasi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 09:48 ineversmile wrote:
I personally go double forge Chargelot+constant Phoenix and Immortal/Warp Prism production off of gateways+1 Staragate+1 Robo. I do this against Terran, too- Could you please post some replays of this vs terran?
Ya, I will when I get a chance. My replays folder was accidentally deleted, so I guess I'll just have to play some more games and post newer replays. I have been using colossus-Phoenix builds over the past couple of months, and more recently I started just rolling straight chargelot Phoenix when I realized that I could pull it off and have better upgrades than the Terran.
I'm trying to work out a couple kinks in my forge/additional gateway timings for that pvt build anyways, so I'll see if I can find a strong Terran to play some practice games...hopefully the replays from this are useful.
|
What do you guys think about going reactive muta corruptor off double spire and expanding everywhere against this?
I've had success with it at mid master level (~700pts) constantly trading with P while endlessly massing corruptors off of 4, 5, 6+ bases, sniping VRs, carriers, and mothership as they come out. This effectively prevents P from moving out, as they can't engage zerg's army without cannon support due to the ridiculous numbers advantage in Z's favor. My composition is mass corruptor with 7-10 mutas sprinkled in to snipe cannons, kill probes, and chase fleeing VRs. While this composition is god-awful against skytoss in larger numbers, it's used to constantly apply pressure, trade, and to *prevent toss from reaching critical mass.* It has a very similar feel to using roaches vs mech in ZvT.
As this is my first post, I apologize in advance for any idiotic things I may have said.
Edit: Asterisks for emphasis, included reasoning.
|
Reactive double Spire depends heavily on if you are able to defend the initial harassment, as well as how many losses you suffered with the inital attack.
Usually the first push from the Zerg causes heavy losses on one side or the other. It sounds obvious, but if it's the 12 minute roach max, then it will depend heavily on things like Mothership positioning, and building placement. With that in mind, if the toss is able to hold the attack, Zerg is severely behind in tech, and threw away a ton of resources. As a result, the toss should begin the Recall harass, and if you can't defend your new expansions from this, then double Spire isn't going to save you, regardless of how awesome the composition is against Skytoss.
But if you were able to do a reasonable amount of damage (20+ probes, a Nexus, etc), then you likely have forced the toss to sit in their base in order to recover, it's a viable response. However, you must keep up on upgrades, otherwise the investment isn't that worth it, because Toss is likely already ahead of you because of how early the Core is compared to the Spires.
|
Just to clarify, I meant that my reaction was to effectively transition into "sky zerg." :O I haven't played in far too long (No access to a computer) but I remember one game where upon scouting him going skytoss, I ceased roach production and threw down a spire. I proceeded to make 8 or so mutas to chase off 2-3 voidrays, and he responded with ~4 phoenix, then I double expanded to 5 base and pumped corruptors all game long, literally flying around in his base sniping his units as they finished, not allowing P's units to accumulate. I ended up winning a very very long game that basically consisted of him not getting a fourth and mining out.
|
On August 21 2012 08:53 pixelAsurA wrote:
Just to clarify, I meant that my reaction was to effectively transition into "sky zerg." :O I haven't played in far too long (No access to a computer) but I remember one game where upon scouting him going skytoss, I ceased roach production and threw down a spire. I proceeded to make 8 or so mutas to chase off 2-3 voidrays, and he responded with ~4 phoenix, then I double expanded to 5 base and pumped corruptors all game long, literally flying around in his base sniping his units as they finished, not allowing P's units to accumulate. I ended up winning a very very long game that basically consisted of him not getting a fourth and mining out.
Sen used to do this. He would make the mutas, like you did, and then make a bunch of corruptors. I think it's a smart response from the zerg because you can often outproduce the protoss due to having a faster third pair of gases and having pre-established production buildings that, unlike extra stargates, don't require a bunch of 150 gas investments (just the 200/200 spire). Then the mutas can often go over there and do a ton of damage, and the toss doesn't have enough ground to handle the mutas. If the protoss wants to beat that composition with air, it basically takes a bunch of higher-upgraded range phoenixes kiting them around the map.
|
where is the build order?
|
On September 16 2012 23:47 j.k.l wrote:
where is the build order?
There is no set build order. The bulk of it working is being able to hide your tech until the Mothership arrives. You open up forge expand however you want, into Stargate. I tend to get the Fleet Beacon after my Phoenix spawns to confirm that there are no more Overlords nearby. After that, you take your third based on your scouting, or if your Mothership spawns, whichever tips you off that you're safe. After that, transition into triple or 4x Stargate, based on if you want to go Void Rays or Carriers respectively.
-FFE
-Stargate
-Fleet Beacon when free from scouting
-Mothership (Chronoboost the crap out of it, seriously)
-Third
-Xx Stargates
-???
-Profit
-Edit-
I have also been experimenting with the idea of just getting a Mothership in order to establish the third, and then transition into other stuff. Basically, is it possible to Mothership Expand into, say, a 7 gate pressure to further secure the third? So far, it's not been fruitful, but I will keep this thread posted on developments in the matter.
|
On September 16 2012 23:47 j.k.l wrote:
where is the build order?
As piroko139 said, there is no strict BO, but overall was explained very vell.
Out of 1st SG you get VR to clear the map, and 1 PHX to scout.
After first stargate get +1 Air and later WG.
When you start your third, add up to 7 gateways to produce zealots, so your third should be protected by zealots, cannon, VR and MS.
Get robo and templar archives.
While getting obs, archons and warp prism use your pre-warped zealots for double-pronged attack.
Zealots go into 3rd (or 4th), your air into the main, DON'T LOSE YOUR AIR - use a recall.
~18 minutes you would have archon-zealot, VR, carrier, HT deathball which can help you safely secure the 4th.
Past 20 minutes It's most probably over for the Zerg, just don't do stupid things and remember to split against fungals.
Also 4 I, personally really rarely go into 4 SG.
This is just an overview - as It's much better to understand weaknesses and strengths of the build by yourself.
|
Anyone tried this one HOTS?
I assume some of it is harder because of the Viper?
I haven't played much in HOTS and would like to know if this strat is still viable.
|
On April 10 2013 18:03 andas wrote:
Anyone tried this one HOTS?
I assume some of it is harder because of the Viper?
I haven't played much in HOTS and would like to know if this strat is still viable.
Hydra is more standard now since theyve been buffed which means its much harder to go air right away. Also mothership has been nerfed, you need the invisibility to defend against most attacks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
