EPThttp://replayfu.com/r/cXGWTg
http://replayfu.com/r/pvQh3f
http://replayfu.com/r/tQzPPq
Obviously I have macro problems, but I really feel like this is a solid strat in pre-master league.
[D] PvZ - Establishing third with Skytoss (viable?) - Page…
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PhantomMonster
United States5 Posts
http://replayfu.com/r/cXGWTg http://replayfu.com/r/pvQh3f http://replayfu.com/r/tQzPPq Obviously I have macro problems, but I really feel like this is a solid strat in pre-master league. | ||
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omahahowitzer
United States98 Posts
However, I have a lot of trouble when the zerg goes 2 base infestor, once infestors are out you need 100 energy on your mothership to do anything aggressive and I feel like the risk of chain fungals prevents me from doing much until he macros to infestor/corruptor deathball. If you think the zerg is going for 2 base infestor, what should you do or should you just respond with a less air focused build? | ||
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LiLSighKoh
United States588 Posts
On June 13 2012 17:20 omahahowitzer wrote: So far using this build, I pretty much stick to upgraded voidrays with a carrier here and there and snipe bases with recall and holding with mass cannons. However, I have a lot of trouble when the zerg goes 2 base infestor, once infestors are out you need 100 energy on your mothership to do anything aggressive and I feel like the risk of chain fungals prevents me from doing much until he macros to infestor/corruptor deathball. If you think the zerg is going for 2 base infestor, what should you do or should you just respond with a less air focused build? Are you getting HT with storm? Storm + FB | ||
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SharkBait
United States36 Posts
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 13 2012 21:55 SharkBait wrote: This may be obvious, but do you get all of your gases asap after core? And generally, how many phoenixes do you have in your late game army? Personally get 2 gasese after 1st gateway and another 2 after first SG. Just easier to remember. Phoenix are kinda useless in lategame IMO. So perfectly staying with initial 5 is okay I get +4 more if heavy-muta play. | ||
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PhantomMonster
United States5 Posts
On June 13 2012 21:55 SharkBait wrote: This may be obvious, but do you get all of your gases asap after core? And generally, how many phoenixes do you have in your late game army? Phoenix are good for killing Infestors if you can be quick and lift 4+ of them and instagib them before they get to Fungal Growth you. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
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SharkBait
United States36 Posts
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omahahowitzer
United States98 Posts
Thanks for the help, I think my problem is vs most other builds, I never really transition away from air, only adding ht after a 3rd or 4th base and the zerg can never deal with upgraded air fleet. Against infestor play I should get faster HT, and maybe switch into standard army? | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On June 14 2012 05:54 omahahowitzer wrote: Thanks for the help, I think my problem is vs most other builds, I never really transition away from air, only adding ht after a 3rd or 4th base and the zerg can never deal with upgraded air fleet. Against infestor play I should get faster HT, and maybe switch into standard army? You can't really switch into a standard army imo. Against 2 base anything, it needs to do damage or they fall way behind, you need to never get supply blocked, mass as many emergency cannons as possible, and not miss any chrono and get out your MS/ as many units as possible. Can't get more specific without a replay. It's also possible that someone finds a timing attack where we are in a BO loss or need to tweak the build or scout for something more specific, but it doesn't really happen in todays metagame, maybe in the future. | ||
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HelioSeven
United States193 Posts
On June 13 2012 22:21 Rimak wrote: Personally get 2 gasese after 1st gateway and another 2 after first SG. Just easier to remember. Phoenix are kinda useless in lategame IMO. So perfectly staying with initial 5 is okay I get +4 more if heavy-muta play. More or less same here. I always get 2 gases before cyber core, 1 more after, and then the 4th after the first stargate. Also same with the phoenixes, unless the Zerg commits to muta play I generally stick to 5 of them throughout the midgame and then sack all but 1 (for scouting) in the late game to free up the supply. On June 14 2012 03:31 Fogetaboudit wrote: playing with fire there, just sac em somehow, and try to trade reasonably well and replace the supply with HT/Collo/anything. Keeping 1 for spotting army position/scouting composition is acceptable If you're lucky, though, lifting and sniping a couple of infestors can be a good way to sack them. Even 2 high energy infestors can easily be worth the sack of 4-5 phoenixes. On June 14 2012 03:44 iLevitate wrote: Oh i used to go skytoss all the time until the queen buff. And that is relevant... how? Patch 1.4.3 buffed the queen's anti-ground attack range from 3 to 5. The anti-air attack has always been range 7. On June 14 2012 05:48 SharkBait wrote: Ok I just used this build against a low masters player and even with terrible macro and easily beat him. Another question for you guys is that is there any way this can be viable against terran? I've been playing with it, it's all a question of how many marauders you can force your opponent to make before transitioning into heavy Skytoss. It can sometimes work as a transition out of a blink stalker opener, therefore, as obviously marauders are the natural counter to stalkers. The more marines are involved, though, the less viable skytoss becomes. Stimmed marines are just too much of a problem, you're better off going for splash first just to deal with them. Also note that there is a 1-base carrier all-in build that is quite effective against Terran, but that's a different story altogether. | ||
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whateversclever
United States197 Posts
On June 14 2012 05:48 SharkBait wrote: Ok I just used this build against a low masters player and even with terrible macro and easily beat him. Another question for you guys is that is there any way this can be viable against terran? Void Ray (or Phoenix) openings exist against Terran. Mass VRs though is another story. But you can go old school school VR+Colossus. Not really recommended, but it's a strategy. The issue is the prominence of cheap ground to air and the Protoss counter to that being counter the same as your core army. Going Phoenix there are no cheap targets and unless they have heavy Marauder play good lift targets. (Though SCVs are worth it in this match-up). Carriers are too slow, but good if you can buy time to get them. On June 14 2012 05:54 omahahowitzer wrote: Thanks for the help, I think my problem is vs most other builds, I never really transition away from air, only adding ht after a 3rd or 4th base and the zerg can never deal with upgraded air fleet. Against infestor play I should get faster HT, and maybe switch into standard army? You don't necessarily need HT. What I do is stick with VRs if they go Roach or if they go both Infestors and Corruptors. This is generally tech+defense mode (slow roll into Broodlords), so you can build up to a critical mass of Void Rays relatively easily in this case. If they go Infestors or Corruptors, but not both and using their minearls for offense (Roaches or Zerglings), I usually focus on getting my Warpgates up. You'll need the bodies and might not have time to get enough VRs up, and if a battle swings the wrong way (getting caught behind on upgrades, a bad ensnare or whatever), it's almost GG otherwise. Zealot/Stalkers can be well suited here as support on top of your Cannons. If they go corruptors, don't forget to build Sentries, and position them to be part of the battle. Guardian shield is huge for swinging this in your favor. If they go Muta, well I open Phoenix, but if you didn't, you can build Phoenix and Stalkers as your build allows. If they are using their minerals to just go mass drones and take the map, I go Phoenix (more Phoenix I mean). It'll be hard to defend them the entire map. Use your best judgement as to what is enough and what is going overboard. I will also be getting up Warpgates in the case too. Upgrades-wise, I focus on Shields primarily It helps your buildings, which are needed to tank Zerglings, ontop of helping all your units, and unlike ground units that tend to have a point in armor, air generally doesn't so it a preference for armor due to the cumulative advantage like ground does. Other than that it's play-by-ear. If they go heavy mass expand, sometimes I like adding a robo for warp prisms or a dark shrine for dark templar. if they are trying to late game into brood lords, i generally tech up to storm and focus on ground upgrades for Archon+Storm (Archons with Shield upgrades are much better than you might have thought) alongside your Mothership. I like trying to sneak in a Hallucination somewhere, as it can really screw with their overlord scouting. | ||
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
1) Mothership defense (I defend a 33 roach attack at the 12 min mark with 2 void rays and a mothership, with minimal losses.) 2) Easy phoenix scout. 3) Mass recall harass 4) Late game face stomp. At my level, if I can get to the 25-30 min mark, the last battle lasts like 5-10 seconds. It's remarkable. There's still loads of room for improvment with both my style and my general play. If anyone familiar with skytoss w/ defensive mothership would look at the replay and give me advice, it would be very much appreciated! http://drop.sc/197492 | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
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Badrobot
8 Posts
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 18 2012 20:42 Badrobot wrote: Hum i try this build but if the zerg attack your b2, what do you do? What do you mean if zerg attack b2? Second base? At which point of the game? | ||
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Badrobot
8 Posts
ps: sorry for my english | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:01 Badrobot wrote: ..there is not a lot of cannons.... 10-15 minutes is a lot of time. @10 min I usually have around 7 cannons at natural. Also you should have 2 senty at entrance. And my 5 phoenix is out at ~9:30 So @10min zerg is kinda busy saving his queens and overlords @13 min tech transition finishes DT's for corruptors or HT's for infestor, storm+carriers for hydra or more phoenix for muta. And thrd is heavy cannoned + simcity @~15 min i prepare for maxed zerg to attack (they usually do) After his army is crushed - take 4th and gogo recall-harass. TL;DR Put more cannons. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:15 Rimak wrote: 10-15 minutes is a lot of time. @10 min I usually have around 7 cannons at natural. Also you should have 2 senty at entrance. And my 5 phoenix is out at ~9:30 So @10min zerg is kinda busy saving his queens and overlords @13 min tech transition finishes DT's for corruptors or HT's for infestor, storm+carriers for hydra or more phoenix for muta. And thrd is heavy cannoned + simcity @~15 min i prepare for maxed zerg to attack (they usually do) After his army is crushed - take 4th and gogo recall-harass. TL;DR Put more cannons. well put, I'm still doing great with this build... just struggling in my other matchups (probably because my MMR is inflated due to not losing PvZ) | ||
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