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Zexlion
United States12 Posts
I'm using your build and having a lot of success with it. The one build that kills me every time though is when Terran one bases and goes for 2 very fast seige tank with a lot of marine support. Even if I scan it and try to intercept midway in the map, I can usually kill the enemies force but then they follow up with more tanks and marines and I eventually die. What is the best way to deal with this? | ||
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Denys
3 Posts
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:23 Denys wrote: Hi! Awesome guide, thank you very much :-) Just one question: how do you beat a 2 base baneling bust (6:40) with a 1rax FE? When you scout then nest, wall off with depots and get either a boatload of hellions or fast siege tech. I guess. I'm protoss, but that sounds like the only reasonable thing to do. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:23 Denys wrote: Hi! Awesome guide, thank you very much :-) Just one question: how do you beat a 2 base baneling bust (6:40) with a 1rax FE? What worked quite nice for me yet is to put some Marauders on hold position in the choke right before your wall-in. The Banelings will crash into them, maybe kill them (maybe not even), but most importantly the wall stays intact. Trading a few Marauders for a boatload of Banelings is a huge win. If you don't have Marauders, even Marines will do. You just have to make sure the wall stays up. If you don't have a wall at the natural, lift the natural CC, run all SCVs in the main and do the same thing as above with your main choke. In both cases, you have to scout it certainly. Don't forget to also get SCVs to the wall for repairs, just in case. | ||
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Captain Marksie
40 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:23 Denys wrote: Hi! Awesome guide, thank you very much :-) Just one question: how do you beat a 2 base baneling bust (6:40) with a 1rax FE? The best way to stop a baneling bust from wrecking your natural is with good building placement. You should already be walling of your natural in every game against zerg. A lot of people do a bunker wall in where you just put depots on the side of the bunker to wall off. A better thing to do is have a full wall of supply depots and build the bunker behind said wall. But supply depots are pretty low health and get destroyed pretty fast by banelings and only one has to go down to create a hole for everything else to get in. The best thing to do is use your high health buildings in the wall. Most 1 rax FE are followed up with 2 more rax and a factory. Instead of building them in your base, build them as your wall. They soak up soo many banelings with ease. The only annoying thing is when you want add ons for your buildings. Im still undecided on wether pulling SCVs is a good idea or not. When you have a supply depot wall the supply depots get destroyed so fast that the SCVs dont really get a chance to repair and then they get destroyed by the next baneling so i would say its worse in that scenario. But if you have a Rax wall then they might be worth it because the Rax takes so much longer to fall that the SCVs will have time to actually repair it for some time instead of getting instantly wiped out. If you look at almost any game where someone has easily stopped a bust i can almost garuntee it would be because of their building placement | ||
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
Walling your natural with a bunker and depots is standard. To be safe, a second or third bunker behind the wall is a good idea too. If you see a bust coming, evac scvs to your main, lift your natural cc, and defend your main. Start a bunker or two on top of your main ramp asap too, and raise your depots once the scvs are safe. Even if you lose a ton of stuff, you're not as behind as you think you are if you kept your scvs and cc alive. | ||
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tbirdd
United States11 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:23 Denys wrote: Hi! Awesome guide, thank you very much :-) Just one question: how do you beat a 2 base baneling bust (6:40) with a 1rax FE? TvZ is my worst MU. Particularily because of mass ling/banelings; that lots of bronze zergs like to do (instead of macro builds). But, I also seem to not play that many zergs. So, I don't have huge experience, but have been able to beat them recently with mass marines. You're just not going to have that much stuff @6:30. 3:45 you're building your CC, so how much are you going to have at 6:30 (like 8 marines?). Here is a replay of a game (1 rax FE) that I survived and won (baneling bust @ 6:30). 1st, you need to survive the baneling bust. The bunker assorbed most, if not all of the banelings. I play zerg sometimes and it's a big trade off to get lots of early gas. So, they are only going to have so many banelings (5-10 banelings?). Then, they will try to break your wall at the top of the ramp, with lings. So you need to pull scv to repair. You could think ahead and hotkey, like 6 scv, to the 0-key. Then finally, you need to figure out how to attack into banelings and win. You just need to trade your marines well. I keep a-moving small groups of marine. They spread out, on their own, as they encounter the zerg, so the less you redirect them probably the better. And use the a-moved groups, to scout around for expansions. Don't micro them. Just shift-click, to chain up your a-move commands. Keep them from getting any expansions and starve them out (mineral and/or larva). Because you will have map control, and you can freely expand. And clear watch towers, on the way. I think, in the replay, he had a ling on the watch tower and able to see me coming the whole time. Replay: 1v1 RiZen vs JonathanGalt TvZ [Note: my opponent actually ended season 7 as #14 silver, I ended the season as #15 bronze] If you actually want to change the build slightly, you might try walling off the natural with rax. You FE at the same time, but leave the CC in the main until it is safe. | ||
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Plethora
United States206 Posts
On June 21 2012 04:31 ShadowDrgn wrote: You don't really "stop" baneling busts. If a zerg wants to bust you, you're going to get busted. However, the bust isn't what kills you -- the follow-up stream of lings/roaches into your base is. This. You'd be amazed how often the zerg busts you and you kill off his stuff and you still have a couple of marines left, didn't lose any scvs really and for the slightest moment you think you're good and you should have an easy game from here. Then you see the reinforcements speeding through the gaping hole in your wall and you start doing calculations in your head. Before long you realize that no, you aren't going to out-micro 12 zerglings with 3 marines... well maybe you can! Pull some SCVs back up a bit, you have two more marines coming out! Oh wait, there are 6 more lings coming in, guess I should pull the rest of my scvs... Ok, good, stabilized with a few SCVs to spare... But when did those new lings get here!? I didn't even notice them! Hmmm... maybe I just need to pull more SCVs? Oh, wait, there aren't any left...  So my advice to you is, KEEP THE WALL UP. Like ShadowDrgn says, if he wants to bust you, he will so at the first chance you get rebuild those depots. Even if you're still fighting off his lings and/or roaches, put those depots back up. If you do this, you will win more than you lose. edit: I fail at tags! | ||
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andrewSC23
United States25 Posts
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zoglug
United Kingdom56 Posts
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LuckyLuke
12 Posts
 . hth | ||
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Ahht
Germany10 Posts
On June 21 2012 17:53 zoglug wrote: Im looking for a bit of advice. Currently in Silver league playing Zerg and i am struggling massively in ZvZ. I lose a lot to early zergling pressure. Im following the Zerg vids, so pool on 14, hatch on 15, 2 spines when the hatch pops etc. However, i always seem to get hit by 12-16 speedlings before my hatch pops. Even if i cancel it, the lings can stream into my main (only 1 queen) and start killing drones, surround the queen etc. Im just wondering how you would deal with it. I dont fancy just going for 1 base lings each ZvZ game and im hoping there is another answer! Sounds like an early pool. If you have your overlord placed correctly, you should see them early enougth to switch to ling production. I prefer to get an early gas for speed and a few defensive banelings too. After that I go on as usual. It got me from silver to plat now. Again big thanks to Filter btw.!!!!! Can you upload a replay? | ||
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zoglug
United Kingdom56 Posts
Id never thought of sticking the spines down in my main and transfering them down to the nat when ready, but that is certainly what i will be trying later this evening. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On June 21 2012 18:57 zoglug wrote: Cheers for the advice guys. Ill post up a couple of replays once i get home this evening, i have numerous as it seems to be what happens every ZvZ, i dread it flashing up on the loading screen. Id never thought of sticking the spines down in my main and transfering them down to the nat when ready, but that is certainly what i will be trying later this evening. try taking your gas as soon as you start your pool and transfering 3 drones as it finishes. then after your spawning pool is done build a baneling nest and keep 2-3 banelings at the top of your ramp. this will stop all those speedling runs | ||
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iremnant3847
Taiwan269 Posts
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Tritone
Japan76 Posts
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Pleks
United Kingdom14 Posts
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Snoodles
401 Posts
Does that mean he's getting paid now? If so that's awesome he deserves it. | ||
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Zexlion
United States12 Posts
I just lost twice in a row to fast marine tank one base push using this build. I can never seem to stop the push with like 15 marine and 2-3 seige tanks. Is there a drastic switch needed to stop the push and if so what is the switch? Any help would be appreciated. | ||
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On June 23 2012 07:03 Zexlion wrote: hello, I just lost twice in a row to fast marine tank one base push using this build. I can never seem to stop the push with like 15 marine and 2-3 seige tanks. Is there a drastic switch needed to stop the push and if so what is the switch? Any help would be appreciated. I'll probably cover that push in a video at some point, because it's extremely strong on many levels. You won't see it very often in masters though, and here's why. (it still happens from time to time though) That push takes almost 0 micro, and very little macro skill to do. The push also gains very little strength with excellent micro. With simple practice you can time it out very easily every time out. What that means is the strength of that push in gold league is going to be very similar to the strength of that push in masters. The correct way to defend against it is good decision making, and good control. That means a lot of players that don't have those areas of their game developed will struggle against it. It still kills me off from time to time, and gave me some of the roughest games when I was smurfing. You have to make a decision fast, and follow through with it. There are three ways to defend it really. #1 Make extra bunkers to slow him down and tech to siege tanks. Keeping your bunkers and marines alive is vital. He can't push into your bunkers, but at the same time you can't stop his tanks from firing on yours. Once he gets to 4 tanks you're pretty toast, so you need your own tanks started by that time. Some maps like Antiga are especially vicious for this push because he can siege your main and nat at the same time essentially. You also NEED air control for this to work, you should still be able to maintain a high ground advantage, but you have to shoot his air control out of the sky to be able to use your 1-2 tanks against his 3-4 effectively. #2 Tech to stim, marine marauder and medivacs. Wait for him to mess up his positioning and go for it. This one is probably the most simple, but also requires the best judgement and is dependent on him making the mistake. #3 Tech to stim, marine medivac and go for the base trade. He won't have anything to defend, so if you can escape unoticed you can hammer his main and force the base trade. He probably won't have an expansion up by then so if you gun down his CC/Fact/Starport (you can hit reactors, but leave his barracks) then supply depots then finally barracks you can win the game with your 2 cc's vs. his 1 or 0. This is probably the most fun, but by far the most risky. The last thing, don't worry if you lose to this push. It's strong, it happens and sometimes you just need to play against it a lot to get better. Edit: And just to clarify, once you make a decision you HAVE to stick with it. You can't try to go for a base trade, then get tanks instead. You need to follow through even if you start to get doubts. One of the best ways to play starcraft is just to do what you're doing all the way, no regrets. Lots of people will try to hold things by reacting, then changing their mind etc and it just ends up a cluster of failure. If you do the wrong stratagy, or make a bad decision but commit and do it well you'll be in great shape. How many times in the GSL does Artosis disagree with something a player does for very good reason, then compliment that player on it working out? How often does a player attempt something, backout halfway through and then lose? | ||
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