[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 37

findingthelimit

Hong Kong219 Posts

June 14 2012 10:25 GMT

#721

hey, I've got a question! I finished watching all the series, aside from the scouting video. I've hit the benchmarks for all the videos, but I'm still constantly losing to one type of match-up: bionic tank TvTs. The first game I've lost, I was slightly late and decided to push in 10:30, only to find myself contained by 2 tanks, some marines, and 2 vikings. Eventually, obviously, i lost.

the second game, he had some reaper harass which killed around 5-6 of my scvs. when I push out, I don't establish enough dominance to secure a third, and eventually he pushed in and killed me.

So my question is, against opponents who go early tanks, should I produce tanks or double medivacs when I push out? I feel like I should go medivacs, since my 1-2 tank will probably be less of a threat than his 2-3 tanks. However, with proper positioning I can never push in against a siege line.

ObviousOne

United States3704 Posts

June 15 2012 06:32 GMT

#722

On June 14 2012 19:25 findingthelimit wrote:
hey, I've got a question! I finished watching all the series, aside from the scouting video. I've hit the benchmarks for all the videos, but I'm still constantly losing to one type of match-up: bionic tank TvTs. The first game I've lost, I was slightly late and decided to push in 10:30, only to find myself contained by 2 tanks, some marines, and 2 vikings. Eventually, obviously, i lost.

the second game, he had some reaper harass which killed around 5-6 of my scvs. when I push out, I don't establish enough dominance to secure a third, and eventually he pushed in and killed me.

So my question is, against opponents who go early tanks, should I produce tanks or double medivacs when I push out? I feel like I should go medivacs, since my 1-2 tank will probably be less of a threat than his 2-3 tanks. However, with proper positioning I can never push in against a siege line.

Drop a mule in the opponent's Marine clump. Then use your medivacs to move-drop over the tanks. Now you have tanks and he/she doesn't.

Scootaloo SC2

United States122 Posts

June 15 2012 10:11 GMT

#723

Working through this right now, starting from the beginning. Currently I am a silver league Terran player. Outside of practice games I'm 3-3 with the marines-only build so far. Half of those I've been able to meet the 50 SCV benchmark! Seems, however, that if the other guy has sufficient banelings, tanks, or collossi (my three losses last night) the whole marine-only thing doesn't quite work! I look forward to building refineries and actually teching again, but first I must master the basic benchmarks!

Keep up all the good work with these videos and tutorials and such! They're immensely helpful and are actually getting me to play again.

zefreak

United States2731 Posts

June 15 2012 10:30 GMT

#724

On June 15 2012 19:11 Secret Agent Man wrote:
Working through this right now, starting from the beginning. Currently I am a silver league Terran player. Outside of practice games I'm 3-3 with the marines-only build so far. Half of those I've been able to meet the 50 SCV benchmark! Seems, however, that if the other guy has sufficient banelings, tanks, or collossi (my three losses last night) the whole marine-only thing doesn't quite work! I look forward to building refineries and actually teching again, but first I must master the basic benchmarks!

Keep up all the good work with these videos and tutorials and such! They're immensely helpful and are actually getting me to play again.

If you can hit the bronze benchmarks in practice, go ahead and switch to the silver benchmark and get some tech. YOU MUST continue to hit the bronze benchmarks, however!

snotboogie

Australia3550 Posts

June 15 2012 13:03 GMT

#725

This honestly is the most helpful thing I've ever encountered in Starcraft. I thought I was macroing right - I was most horribly wrong. Filter rocks!!!!

habermas

United Kingdom304 Posts

June 15 2012 15:52 GMT

#726

After playing around with this build and watching some pro terrans I believe that it can be optimised in two ways:

* get CC after first marine and skip 3rd supply depot

The reason for this is faster CC and faster gas -> faster tech. There's no reason for slightly faster 3 marines and by the time any poke may come you're going to have a bunker anyway.

* get combat shield much faster

I was surprised how fragile my army was at the 10 minutes push without it, especially against splash damage (siege tanks, banelings, colossus). Combat shield solves this problem. I even think it's better to delay +1 attack slightly for a faster combat shield. It's still possible to have both though. One way is to get tech-lab asap on one rax and leave the other two naked. Then research stim and combat shield asap. The other way is to get 2 tech-labs, 1 reactor and research stim and CS simultaneously. In both cases you should still be able to afford factory and +1 at normal timings because of faster gas. Thoughts?

LuckyLuke

12 Posts

June 15 2012 16:17 GMT

#727

habermas you are quite right the build can be optimised in various ways. But this build gives you a lot of saftey and in return is not optimized to the last extend^^ To give an example you can get the 2nd CC before the 2nd depot but you will have a later wall. The timing of the 2nd depot will prevent 6 or 7 pools from getting into your base as well as extra protection against proxy gateways etc. There are always tradeoffs when optimising a build so be careful that you know the tradeoffs when optimising

)

beat farm

United States478 Posts

June 16 2012 05:13 GMT

#728

Can any one tell me what i did wrong in this game that cost me to lose, using the silver build.

i know i brainfarted and made a lot of mistakes that should have cost me to lose later on, but i don't see why any of them made me lose at the 8 minute mark. forgot tech labs and got my factory down late but i wouldn't have gotten medivacs out by the time i lost. the only thing that i see wrong was the tech lab ment i didn't have a marauder. I don't see how that would have made much of a difference. does his build just flat out beat this build regardless and i shouldn't worry about it?

http://drop.sc/198658

ShadowDrgn

United States2497 Posts

June 16 2012 07:15 GMT

#729

Having your marines in front of your bunker cost you that game. The point of bunkers is to absorb damage, but if your entire army is standing in front of the bunker, you may as well not have it. Also, use scvs at your natural to repair the bunker. Being able to hold 3gate and 4gate aggression is extremely important for your ability to move up in leagues so you should definitely work on surviving against those builds.

Filter

Canada620 Posts

June 16 2012 12:09 GMT

#730

On June 16 2012 00:52 habermas wrote:
After playing around with this build and watching some pro terrans I believe that it can be optimised in two ways:

* get CC after first marine and skip 3rd supply depot

The reason for this is faster CC and faster gas -> faster tech. There's no reason for slightly faster 3 marines and by the time any poke may come you're going to have a bunker anyway.

* get combat shield much faster

I was surprised how fragile my army was at the 10 minutes push without it, especially against splash damage (siege tanks, banelings, colossus). Combat shield solves this problem. I even think it's better to delay +1 attack slightly for a faster combat shield. It's still possible to have both though. One way is to get tech-lab asap on one rax and leave the other two naked. Then research stim and combat shield asap. The other way is to get 2 tech-labs, 1 reactor and research stim and CS simultaneously. In both cases you should still be able to afford factory and +1 at normal timings because of faster gas. Thoughts?

One of the best ways to do it is to take the gas before you take your 2nd/3rd rax, then use the barracks naked except for the tech lab one. You can get combat shield extremely fast, still have stim in time and actually get medivacs faster. The tradeoff is it makes things a bit more complex, and you have to know when it's safe to get the addons for your barracks instead of getting them at an obviously safe time.

Scootaloo SC2

United States122 Posts

June 16 2012 13:36 GMT

#731

I've been recording my plays in a Google Doc to monitor my progress. You can take a peek at it here. I had tons of practice games because of ladder anxiety, but I think I'm mostly over that now, thankfully. I just can't quite eke out 50 SCVs recently. Once I can do that consistently I'll move up to the next phase of the strategy.

Snoodles

401 Posts

June 16 2012 16:13 GMT

#732

I've been able to max out at 14:15 doing the platinum benchmarks against the AI but I get much much worse against humans. Simple things like probe/drone harass of my building SCV, or stalker/zealot harass of my bunker-building SCV, or overreactions to banshees. I still win, but my stuff is minutes late, so I've been watching this day9 daily on mechanics:
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-257-newbie-tuesday-refining-mechanics-4760234

My new exercise is to do the same build, only I'm looking at my base as little as possible. I pull a scout and just focus on my scout until I max out. I move-command my scout, and go 4-5-6 to browse through my buildings. At first I thought it would be hard, but then I realized that all those notifications on the left side of the screen tell me everything that's going on. As long as I'm looking at my scout, the notifications naturally get my attention, whereas if I'm looking at my base they dont: Your marine is done, your SCV is done, your barracks is built, your refinery is done, etc. I literally never used those before.

Now my screen looks like this:
Click SCV scout, dance him around a bit. 4,5,6
Notification: your barracks is done
Tap 5, build more marines
I click my location hotkey, pick an SCV, tap build, tap depot, shift click back to mineral line.
Double tap 1 to go back to my scout

I know filter says not to scout, but if i just dance my scout around the bottom of his natural or whatever, I can see agression coming, and since it doesnt take me by surprise I can react to it and not stop building. A big problem before for example, was losing my bunker to a 4gate or roach rush because they hit faster than i could pull SCV from the mineral line to repair.

Lokishadow

United States71 Posts

June 17 2012 06:51 GMT

#733

I just race switched from Protoss to Terran. I was having quite the hard time of it, having just placed into silver (finally got out of bronze hell), but then one of the guys in the CTL suggested I take a look at this. I tried it and rolled 4 players in a row (Protosses like to BM when you do this). Alos, though I'm not yet hitting the benchmarks for Bronze (only 46 workers and 41 marines @ 10 minutes T_T), my APM went from 30 to 90 average, and spikes went from 110 to 378! This is a great tutorial, thanks so much for this FilterSC. You have a subscribe and I'm working my way through the videos and steadily rolling up the ladder.

I also mashed a couple of Golds :D

-Loki

TranceKuja

United States154 Posts

June 17 2012 07:14 GMT

#734

His bronze build will lose to spash damage(banelings, tanks/hellions, collossi). You just want to make sure you're nailing the benchmarks and not worry if you lose. Just keep at it.

Miserie

Belgium92 Posts

June 17 2012 20:04 GMT

#735

Woop, thanks alot for these vids ^^

Gladiator MG

United States178 Posts

June 18 2012 01:34 GMT

#736

Tritone

Japan76 Posts

June 18 2012 06:14 GMT

#737

So I played Starcraft II for the first time a couple weeks ago and until today played about 125 games in Bronze as Protoss. A week ago I decided to switch to Zerg. I watched Filter's Zerg vids and spent maybe 2 hours practicing against the AI, and today I went on the ladder. I won 13 out of the 14 games I played, almost all of them by a fairly wide margin. The one I lost, I was thrown off by a engineering bay at my natural and then I neglected to illuminate the watchtowers with zerglings, so I didn't see my opponent's 1-base push until it was already at my ramp.

Thank you, Filter!

RaClaw

Turkey114 Posts

June 18 2012 06:47 GMT

#738

Is there any guide like this for Protoss?

SideAffect

Canada30 Posts

June 18 2012 06:55 GMT

#739

RaClaw, he says he'll do stuff for protoss after he finishes zerg. You might want to check out dApollo's vids on youtube in the meantime though. There isn't benchmarks set for them but if you do those build (or better yet just one of them until you have it down) just check your replays that you have as much food as Apollo does at x time in the game (or more since his macro does slip) and that you were constantly building probes.

It's a start anyways. dignitasApollo protoss tutorials on youtube.

mosfet

Canada34 Posts

June 18 2012 13:58 GMT

#740

Filter, I just wanted to thank you so much for these videos. I've been bouncing between plat and diamond and just generally felt my play stagnate over the past six months or so, to the point where I hadn't been playing much lately. After watching these and trying out the benchmarks, I'm realizing my mechanics aren't nearly as good as I thought they were. The silver league benchmarks in particular were an eye-opener. I'm finding myself having a lot more fun, despite losing to things I normally wouldn't.

As an aside, it's shocking how much of a difference good macro makes. With minimal micro, I've managed to beat some platinum level players with just un-upgraded marines.

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[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 37

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