On March 03 2012 03:19 Champ121 wrote: don't protosses other than myself scout the zerg's main again at 5:00 for roach warren anyway? this is before ling speed hits in this build, i don't see how this comes in time to deny scouting.
Well you will have a queen and lings. If you watch the stream lessons, you'll see that IF protoss tries to get a probe in, a combination of your zerglings chasing it with your queen at the top of the ramp will deny scouting of the warren 100% of the time.
I actually find this very interesting, and a great solution to what I've been doing wrong in ZvP lately. I've been doing heavy macro with 15 hatch 16 pool and then going into a roach/infestor build. I think this might be a little faster, and less hassle than doing that long risky macro game with a Protoss player.
My hope is that this build will become prevolent enough to force a slight change in the current metagame so that toss is forced to be less gready and play a bit more defensive.
My guess is that in a while toss will become smart to it and as soon as they scout a gas first speedling opening they will spend resources to turtle up with extra cannons. You can then simply decide not to cancel and build drones/third hatch with the knowlege that you are likely safe from early pressure/all-ins.
I see this as letting zerg regain the early to mid-game tactical advantage to some extent.
On March 03 2012 06:17 PsyStarcraft wrote: None of the replays match the build order timings listed. Even if you follow the build order perfectly, a 4:20 roach warren isn't possible.
I was wondering about this myself, faced a protoss today and decided to go for the tactic and the 4:20 Roach warren was more like 4:30-4:40
On March 03 2012 06:17 PsyStarcraft wrote: None of the replays match the build order timings listed. Even if you follow the build order perfectly, a 4:20 roach warren isn't possible.
Thanks for pointing the roach warren timing out, it'll be about 4:30-4:40 for the warren. On an unrelated note... Psy vs Tang Bo5?
well i gave it another go. I missed alot of timings but still managed to pull it off as the protoss was playing very aggressive FFE. Building 2 zealots and heading to my base. I went around with the roaches and killed his zealots with around 12 lings. I arrived at his door with roaches shortly after and broke the wall. Ez win. All ins good. on another note, protoss player kinda angry how he can't scout this and left. Good to know how it feels now eh?
I have already tried this a few times without issue today. It seemed to throw a lot of people off in ZvP. I also did it versus Terran to see what happens and it actually wasn't half bad. Didn't face any Zerg today for some reason.
On March 03 2012 20:01 Creegz wrote: I have already tried this a few times without issue today. It seemed to throw a lot of people off in ZvP. I also did it versus Terran to see what happens and it actually wasn't half bad. Didn't face any Zerg today for some reason.
I haven't tried it against a Terran yet, but the thing is that one bunker full of marines/marauders or a seige tank can really put this all-in in a bad position.
Also Tang, do you think there's a way to turn this into just pressure instead of an all-in? I've been trying to figure out how, but every time I do, it doesn't do much at all and the protoss just kills me with a stargate push.
On March 03 2012 20:01 Creegz wrote: I have already tried this a few times without issue today. It seemed to throw a lot of people off in ZvP. I also did it versus Terran to see what happens and it actually wasn't half bad. Didn't face any Zerg today for some reason.
Also Tang, do you think there's a way to turn this into just pressure instead of an all-in? I've been trying to figure out how, but every time I do, it doesn't do much at all and the protoss just kills me with a stargate push.
Yes there is. You don't have to do the hatch cancel, you can use the roaches to pressure the forge/cyber/nexus. For an example of using this early aggression and transitioning into macro, check out game 2 of the leenock/naniwa series:
Normally I try not to all in, but I decided to give this a try after going 0-7 on ladder. Worked like a charm. Hopefully Protoss will stop playing so greedy as attacks like these become more common.
On March 03 2012 14:49 paintfive wrote: Gas -> 6 Lings -> make cannons and prepare for all in
this is exactly why zergs should open 14/14 now. Force the protoss on the other side deciding whether or not to spend more on defense then econ/tech. If 6 speedlings can force 1 or 2 more cannons and earlier sentries (later tech for protoss), then 14/14 opening is really worth it. speedling opening is now very viable as it denies most scouting and is very economical if you don't do the all in.
Your post is off. You cannot make 2 overlords at 20 food and a roach warren before 5 minutes. Its either an earlier roach warren or 2 overlords, you cant do both.
On March 04 2012 09:35 kaluro wrote: Your post is off. You cannot make 2 overlords at 20 food and a roach warren before 5 minutes. Its either an earlier roach warren or 2 overlords, you cant do both.
EPT
what kind of stakes you thinking?
