EPT[G] Leenock's ZvP All-In: 10 Roach Rush - Page 2
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
On March 02 2012 08:17 ODKStevez wrote: This build is so hard to hold off as Protoss. Today on Ladder, nearly every Zerg did this to me. Especially in the meta game, from what I have noticed, if Protoss are denied scouting, a lot of them will play greedy, including myself because of the amazing lead that Zerg can get on workers. if they open 14/14 into 3 hatch, they don't get as much of an 'amazing lead' as compared to what you're used to with non-speed into 3 hatch. If your scouting is getting denied by non-speed builds, then you're not scouting correctly (probe/zealots). | ||
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BoxingKangaroo
Japan955 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
 endless fun | ||
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jimbob615
Uruguay455 Posts
I have an idea: what if instead of mining gas with 1 drone, you ceased to mine after the first 100. And then, wait until the timing lines up and at the correct moment put 3 drones back on gas. This way the enemy probe won't be able to scout any mining gas. Secondly you'll have slightly more mins then gas early game which might help slightly. As far as ease of use I think one drone is better but I'm thinking in ultimate build terms. | ||
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joyeaux
United States169 Posts
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FailCow
United States49 Posts
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Defekter
Canada37 Posts
Im a diamond toss looking to switch to zerg... just because i find them a lot more fun. though i just havent watched enough zerg play(besides zvp). If someone wants to help me out that would be great :D | ||
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habermas
United Kingdom304 Posts
On March 02 2012 08:21 TangSC wrote: Yeah, scout the gas after 100 gas see if he's mining more (even if it's just 1 drone). If so, try to scout the 3rd base by around 5minutes. If he doesn't have a 3rd by 5min and you scouted 14/14, you should just build a 3rd cannon to be safe (in my opinion). That's something I've learned the hard way on KR ladder. This build is very popular at platinum level there together with bane busts. However the same scouting information can as well mean 2 base mutas which require totally different response, unless I'm missing something. Also are 3 cannons (with 1 unit) enough to hold this off? Do you have any replays of games you lost doing this? | ||
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GhostfaceKillah
United States12 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
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ghostCatalyst
Philippines39 Posts
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On March 02 2012 10:26 joyeaux wrote: Can someone who mains protoss fill me in here? I don't understand how this is dangerous in today's metagame. Isn't the gas before pool at 14 food a huge tell? As Tang says, it is all about denying scouting. I am really persistent in scouting when I FFE. However, if the Z denies 2 of my scouting probes and my scouting zealot/zealot me with a few speedlings, I don't know what he is doing. So yea, I know to throw up cannons, but the timings are difficult and the decision to go three cannons or four needs to be made relatively quickly. I usually need four to hold roach rushes--but if the Z isn't going to rush me, four cannons is such a resource sink. I also have to make a decision to get a sentry (better vs blings) or a stalker (better vs roaches) without knowing exactly what is coming. But I have to disagree with the notion that this only punishes greedy toss. I usually forge first and I still find that if denied a decent scout, these all-ins are hard to hold. I just feel that the myth of the greedy toss needs to be dispelled: even against a Nexus first opening, a zerg can still get a worker advantage entering the midgame. In my opinion, the evolution of Nexus-first builds is in response to the toss NEED to keep up with Zerg drone production more than it is an attempt to be greedy. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
If you cancel the hatch, your all in. Unless you completely cripple the Tosser, you can't really transition from this. 2) How can a protoss player scout and respond to this? You've laid out some really nice scouting paths, but even with 6 lings, the 2 zealot scout can normally gather a fair bit of information. 3) If the protoss player is denied scouting info, are they forced to blindly build additional cannons? In theory, they should be forced to build 1/2 more, but in reality they don't because their greedy, and thus, deserve to die to well crafted all ins like this. 4) Can this build be used against any none-FFE builds? It can work against a 1gate expand, but against anything more than that, it just doesn't work. If they go DT expand you lose, same more or less for stargate play. | ||
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 02 2012 12:29 OPL3SA2 wrote: tang it's good that you recognize that this crap doesn't work vs terran. your website earlier had you as a proponent of this strategy vs terran. I ran into a bunch of people mid masters that seemed to be trying it. I had a field day Never done this build in ZvT, but I know some nice alternatives to standard macro. | ||
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joyeaux
United States169 Posts
On March 02 2012 11:29 skatbone wrote: As Tang says, it is all about denying scouting. I am really persistent in scouting when I FFE. However, if the Z denies 2 of my scouting probes and my scouting zealot/zealot me with a few speedlings, I don't know what he is doing. Zerg denies you scouting a gas going down before the SPAWNING POOL STARTS? How is killing your zealot/zealot scout after you FFE relevant to stopping you from seeing a gas down at 14, before pool? | ||
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Vond
Sweden145 Posts
On March 02 2012 13:06 joyeaux wrote: Zerg denies you scouting a gas going down before the SPAWNING POOL STARTS? How is killing your zealot/zealot scout after you FFE relevant to stopping you from seeing a gas down at 14, before pool? Early gas can still mean a lot of different builds though, it doesn't HAVE to mean anything super-aggressive. | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1213 Posts
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