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On March 04 2012 05:22 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 12:24 Kaitlin wrote:On March 02 2012 18:27 JulDraGoN wrote:I like the idea, it's good and I think it's a good way for any bronze->gold leaguer to start getting into the habit of spending more time on macroing. That being said I also have some problems with this, don't read the spoiler if you don't want to read some old guy ranting. + Show Spoiler +
Macroing in SC2 is not hard. It isn't.
In Broodwar macroing was an art form that took a LOT of practice to get even decently good at. The diffrence in macroing of one base or three bases in SC2 is minimal, in Broodwar it was huge.
So there is no reason to have bad macro in SC2 (mechanicly which is the only thing you actually practice with this build), anyone should be able to learn it reasonably fast. What is hard is timings of when your stuff gets built and getting your stuff done when you need them to be done and of course multitasking. Decision making and army management (not nessecarly micro) plays a huge role in SC2.
This is not something you learn from a build like this but should be the next step. I don't see it detrimental in any way for a bronze leaguer to add just a little more complexity to the style after about 10 games played with this basic outline.
Upgrades
Yeah, add some upgrades, learn the timings of when you can afford them and when you need your (in this case armory) started to finish at the same time as 1/1. An easy way of getting in to the habit of checking up on your upgrade status. The complexity added is minimal, the strength of your macro play is improved immensely.
Teching
Getting the timings down for when you can tech and when you can't takes a lot more practice than just building shizzle from barracks. You can still attackmove with MMM just fine,
Not a cheese?!
Wait, what was that? This is NOT a cheese?
A cheese doesn't have to be an all in.
A cheese doesn't have to happen in the early game.
Not teching and not upgrading is one of the more cheesy things you can do regardless if you do it on one base or on five.
Cheese is a strategy that loses if scouted. ...So to some extent this is a cheese. I scout the lack of factory, and make colossus and sentries and A move roll you over.
So anything that you scout and build appropriate units to counter is a cheese in your mind ? Sorry. Also, I don't know how many colossus you would expect a low level player to have out by the time the first attack comes, but I'd say none, one if rushing to it, but then there wouldn't be much else and it would still die. Just because this is not an unbeatable build does not make it cheese. It's just a "simple" build for low levels to concentrate on what is most important. That's it.
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Thanks Taerix!!
I usually play Protos but today I thought I might try your terrran guide - just for fun. I am silver league and already in the first game (which was by far not perfect from me), I defeated a Golde league guy!!
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Yeah, like the guy above me said: They wont have colossi that fast i often win on the 7 min push in bronze..
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I have been doing this build for a while now and I crunched the numbers, thanks to SC2Gears and Statcraft.net
I'm a Silver leaguer if anyone is interested.
this build has a
55% win rate overall.
TvP = 70% win Rate.
TvT = 54% win Rate.
TvZ = 38% win Rate.
This is with approximately 50 games played. So for me fairly representative. I'm definitely on my way up to Gold but the problem is my TvZ I'd like to have a Win ratio of at least 45%.
Any suggestions as to how one can adapt this build to not be as vulnerable to ling/bling and muta?
Thanks.
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On March 06 2012 04:36 Sylvanium wrote:
I have been doing this build for a while now and I crunched the numbers, thanks to SC2Gears and Statcraft.net
I'm a Silver leaguer if anyone is interested.
this build has a
55% win rate overall.
TvP = 70% win Rate.
TvT = 54% win Rate.
TvZ = 38% win Rate.
This is with approximately 50 games played. So for me fairly representative. I'm definitely on my way up to Gold but the problem is my TvZ I'd like to have a Win ratio of at least 45%.
Any suggestions as to how one can adapt this build to not be as vulnerable to ling/bling and muta?
Thanks.
To keep it as simple of possible perhaps a more marauder heavy composition and definitely pick up those concussive shells. And when you a-move out select all your marauders first and a-move out with them first directly followed by the marines.
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Hello Im a bronze player and I tried this build after my placement match. Im up 34-6 and number one in my division.
http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2585628/Snoodles
What has killed me so far are cloaked units and Terran turtlers who use tanks.
I'm still waiting to be promoted but this is taking longer than I thought.
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On March 06 2012 05:54 serum321 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 04:36 Sylvanium wrote:
I have been doing this build for a while now and I crunched the numbers, thanks to SC2Gears and Statcraft.net
I'm a Silver leaguer if anyone is interested.
this build has a
55% win rate overall.
TvP = 70% win Rate.
TvT = 54% win Rate.
TvZ = 38% win Rate.
This is with approximately 50 games played. So for me fairly representative. I'm definitely on my way up to Gold but the problem is my TvZ I'd like to have a Win ratio of at least 45%.
Any suggestions as to how one can adapt this build to not be as vulnerable to ling/bling and muta?
Thanks. To keep it as simple of possible perhaps a more marauder heavy composition and definitely pick up those concussive shells. And when you a-move out select all your marauders first and a-move out with them first directly followed by the marines.
IF you want to keep this build vs zerg - maurders trade well against blings so as the poster quoted mentioned, use them as an outer "wall" of your formation, if you have a layer of maurders on the outside then the blings will be rendered impotent.
Personally I think you should start learning a specific anti-zerg BO involving hellions and maurders to arrive at opponents base at 9 minutes [this hits before mutas then], by the look of your 70% vs Protoss you've already mastered this build. The truth is, the BO in the OP is just awful versus zerg. It's not you.
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On March 06 2012 06:15 Snoodles wrote:Hello Im a bronze player and I tried this build after my placement match. Im up 34-6 and number one in my division. http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2585628/SnoodlesWhat has killed me so far are cloaked units and Terran turtlers who use tanks. I'm still waiting to be promoted but this is taking longer than I thought.
I think that the purpose of this "build" is to help you get better att macroing, not getting a free promotion...
On topic: Great writeup - Im definitely gonna try it since Im only a gold scrub. Need the practice.
But - Im gonna do at least 100 games with this and see on what level this "strategy" hits a ceiling. It will be fun(nier than smurfing)!!!
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Thanks for the guide, bought sc2 a month ago and with little experience with rts games I wasn't able to make too much of a dent in the ladder and would always get overwhelmed past the 10-12min mark.
Gone 6-1 with this build so far, lost to early reaper harras that killed a billion scvs and left way behind. Amazing how quick you can build tons of unit if that's what your entire focus is on.
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On March 06 2012 06:34 Grubbegrabbn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 06:15 Snoodles wrote:Hello Im a bronze player and I tried this build after my placement match. Im up 34-6 and number one in my division. http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2585628/SnoodlesWhat has killed me so far are cloaked units and Terran turtlers who use tanks. I'm still waiting to be promoted but this is taking longer than I thought. I think that the purpose of this "build" is to help you get better att macroing, not getting a free promotion... On topic: Great writeup - Im definitely gonna try it since Im only a gold scrub. Need the practice. But - Im gonna do at least 100 games with this and see on what level this "strategy" hits a ceiling. It will be fun(nier than smurfing)!!!
It very much is intended to get a promotion otherwise it would not be titled "How to get out of bronze"
Anyways I thank the OP because he has taught something that weeks of watching pros stream can't teach. There was a thread on Reddit a while back where a protoss player made nothing but stalkers and A-moved his way from bronze to diamond. It was a really great lesson but unfortunately that person didn't provide a tutorial on how to do it.
What this playstyle has taught me is how to pay attention to numbers and knowing when I can or can't afford something. There have been games where I can just feel my opponents frustration because theyve taken out my a-move wave and think Im vulnerable and just keep going and going for the kill. In the end it turns out I had 80-120 SCVs to their 30-40. There have been several games where I didn't have enough units to counter/kill but I had double the SCVs. I've ldeveloped an intuition where I say "Ok I've made this many SCVs and have spent all my resources on units, so X is the max size that my opponents army could be otherwise he's floating resources.
When I've run out of minerals on my first base and I scout to see that my opponent doesn't have a third, I smile because I know I'm going to win. I also see things that I didn't before in terms of budgeting. For example: "If I get this upgrade, my next expansion is going to be delayed", "if I get supply blocked, I lose 2 production cycles and collect a bunch of resources that make me look richer than I really am." My favorite games have been the ones where I've literally starved my opponent. They're on 2 bases killing my whole army repeatedly meanwhile I'm on 6 bases denying expansions and they're out of minerals.
Believe me I've learned the terminology and tried standard build orders but after a month of having the game I've learned more in two days of playing this strat than in all the build orders I've tried(like Col. Drewbies) and streams I've watched.
Thanks OP.
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To expand on my previous post, here are the limitations I've found so far: A-Move hasn't served me well against TvT's who know how to defend. When I charge at a line of siege tanks, 1-1 stim combat shield marines, marauders, and medivacs, my army disintegrates even when it's twice as large, then they just counter before I can remake my 200/200 army.
One protoss caught on early and after a couple waves made nothing but immortals and collusses, but that was just one guy and when I looked at his history I suspect he's a smurf.
I cannot disregard micro when mutalisks or cloak banshees are at play. We all know the drill where they poke and poke and come from another side and poke again. This strategy hasn't worked in those situations because when the taunter is smart he pokes off supply depots, SCV's, denies expansions, and I lose all my mule opportunities chasing him around. A also can't keep up with making workers, army, and depot while Im chasing and splitting my army from one base to another.
I'm going to keep trying to perform this build under high pressure because that's when macro flies out of the window.
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Actually day9 had a daily where he showed this variant (wiki only shows stim) where you go reactor first then shells and combat shield. If you manage to keep enough marines alive its a bit better imho... Perhaps stim is the way to go if you bring a handful of SCVs to tank some damage...?
On topic: I have collected 2 wins and a draw in gold so far ^^. The draw was vs a Toss also doing a timing attack on Meta cross pos and it seems like the pathing makes the units walk on opposite sides of the map centre 
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can i make an ebay pls. i dont like dts
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This build seems solid. Im a silver player myself and all the games I lose are against cheese or by failing to macro properly. Macro is what gets you ahead. Not any of this one trick pony business! Keep up the good work and drown your opponent ingood macro!
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Some men just wanna watch the world learn...
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I created an account just to reply to this. Very solid strategy and I had a lot of fun learning new tech while using this strategy as the basis of my early game. Should be a must read for any new SC2 players starting out in the ladder games.
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I tried it, maybe about 50% win rate bronze, EU server
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Thought i would post a little update of my progress with this tactic.
Ladder: Bronze
Wins: 40
Rank: 1
Points: ~650 (cant remember exactly off the top of my head)
EU Server
Win percentage vs Bronze players ~90% (most players seem to simply get overwhelmed by the amount of units i keep throwing at them)
Win percentage vs Silver players ~70% (main problem i have is Terrans who turtle then push with medivacs)
Win percentage vs Gold players ~50% (only played 4 or so against golds so not really accurate)
Also for anyone who didnt see my eariler post i am a noob at this game. only got it a few months ago and before using this strat had a total of 30ish career wins.
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On March 06 2012 06:15 Snoodles wrote:Hello Im a bronze player and I tried this build after my placement match. Im up 34-6 and number one in my division. http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2585628/SnoodlesWhat has killed me so far are cloaked units and Terran turtlers who use tanks. I'm still waiting to be promoted but this is taking longer than I thought.
Get 1200 points and its almost guarantee
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On March 08 2012 05:34 all3z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 06:15 Snoodles wrote:Hello Im a bronze player and I tried this build after my placement match. Im up 34-6 and number one in my division. http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2585628/SnoodlesWhat has killed me so far are cloaked units and Terran turtlers who use tanks. I'm still waiting to be promoted but this is taking longer than I thought. Get 1200 points and its almost guarantee
Might happen a bit earlier. I just got promoted at 43 wins and just under 700 points. Just keep at it, SC2 isnt about what division im in, for me its about having fun and improving. Also have a look at what league the players you are playing are in, i got promoted after beating 10 or so silver players and some golds.
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EPT
