EPT
[G] How to get out of bronze w/ macro (not cheese) - Page 2
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tiaz
Sweden231 Posts
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Leimus
72 Posts
After a bunch of games, I proceeded to alter the build a bit, by throwing in ebays, factory, starport and armory with couple more refineries to eventually play mmm with upgrades and use the factory to scout around. Your guide certainly is a sureproof way of getting to gold, and if at some point you start to pay a small time on the army just before attacking (not running to siege lines, or be in a tight ball against banelings), it's probably going to carry the player to platinum easily. Thanks for the video, was certaily a fun experience. | ||
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Taerix
United States41 Posts
On February 27 2012 13:06 Josep wrote: Thanks for posting. Working great at gold league, although I'm a bit embarrassed that I did better with this build tonight (11-2) than my typical Protoss macro play. Who knew that hurling marines and marauders at enemies was so successful? No kidding right? The basic units in this game are surprisingly strong when backed by decent macro =) On February 27 2012 16:03 Kaitlin wrote: So, I've been playing as Random and Terran is my weakest race. I've been doing crazy big Mech against Z and trying to do reaper damage against Protoss, otherwise I get owned. Against Terran, I've been having these massively long 30 minute games because I just never attack into Terran. I watched your video and started doing this build and have won every time I've done it. Pretty surprised. It's only been about 6 times or so, but I like it. As I get better with Terran (with the help of using this build), I'm sure I'll have even more fun with it as I branch into maybe those elusive +1 upgrades, or even one day a Siege Tank !!! Thanks for the build .Your welcome! Keeping it simple definitely helps you focus on the things that matter most. Trying to get fancy unit comps and be tricky with micro usually comes at the sacrifice of macro. As you transition to upgrades and more units, be sure to stick with the constant production and expanding. On February 27 2012 16:50 Joedaddy wrote: ninja edit. Looks just like the old standard 2 rax TvP opening thats been around for a while without the tech transitions and you get combat shield first. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Rax_Pressure_Opening_(vs._Protoss) You're right! It's very similar - strong, yet simple. On February 27 2012 16:58 phyren wrote: your video reminds me of Bob Ross. Who's Bob Ross? On February 27 2012 20:04 tiaz wrote: I've started playing terran to try it out. This build works surprisingly well against protoss and terran but i have a hard time against zerg. They just make banelings and without tank support i get crushed. Its just supposed to be like that i guess? Depending on your league, yes Zerg can give you trouble. In the lower leagues even though Banelings will rip apart your infantry (though Marauders soak up a lot of it) as long as you produce those SCVs and expand you'll be able to out mass him in the end. On February 27 2012 21:00 tiaz wrote: I'm in bronze :D Maybe i've just been unlucky cause the three zergs i've met have all went heavy baneling (even with no scouting). Though I'll keep doing this style cause its working great vT vP, and its nice to just focus on keeping resources spent! Also i've not played an immensely amount of games so yeah.. Yah blind heavy Banelings will be hard to beat going strictly Marine/Marauder. But as long as you're doing the macro part well you'll be building some good habits so even when you lose, you're winning! =P On February 27 2012 23:22 Leimus wrote: While I play mainly zerg, I some while back got a second account for playing terran. Due to the differences of macro with terran and zerg, I never really got into the whole terran playing before watching that video off yours. My terran has been sitting in silver league, with some 15 wins total on it. It was certainly a good thing I tried the thing on ladder, crushing just about every opponent, besides on my second ladder game with this one terran that turtled up with siege tanks to clearly play tower defense with my waves of m&m. After a bunch of games, I proceeded to alter the build a bit, by throwing in ebays, factory, starport and armory with couple more refineries to eventually play mmm with upgrades and use the factory to scout around. Your guide certainly is a sureproof way of getting to gold, and if at some point you start to pay a small time on the army just before attacking (not running to siege lines, or be in a tight ball against banelings), it's probably going to carry the player to platinum easily. Thanks for the video, was certaily a fun experience. Glad you're getting some use out of it! I actually had a 30-40 min game against a Terran who did just what you said. Eventually ended up winning since I took the whole map and just kept sending units at his front. The units lost tab was a bit skewed though haha. Thanks for trying it out guys! Looking forward to hearing more feedback =) | ||
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mtszyk
21 Posts
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2582 Posts
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
I think doing something structured and focused like OP would give quick enough results, good idea. | ||
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vorxaw
Canada245 Posts
On February 27 2012 21:00 tiaz wrote: I'm in bronze :D Maybe i've just been unlucky cause the three zergs i've met have all went heavy baneling (even with no scouting). Though I'll keep doing this style cause its working great vT vP, and its nice to just focus on keeping resources spent! Also i've not played an immensely amount of games so yeah.. That's a perfect opportunity for you to force yourself to macro even harder, marines counter banelings pretty damn hard in bronze, just make like 30ish marines, stand them outside your base, pre spread them and forget about them... go back a macro raxes, ccs, depots etc. Watch as your marines magically take care of banelings | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
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rahl.pwnage
United States2 Posts
Having said that, for the other two races dApollo already has AMAZING video series' entitled "Working up from Bronze". They're each about 4 hrs in duration and show him starting with new accounts and using very basic, defensive, and macro-oriented play to march his way through a 100% win ratio to eventually being paired up vs Diamonds. In just 4hrs. He makes it look sooooo easy. ^_^ | ||
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Jotunheimr
United States36 Posts
Your build is safe as can be and will most likely win a lot of games in bronze, but the misunderstanding is really the build in that sense, safe playstyles can work but most people can get easily frustrated with them; I know people told me "zerg, pool before hatch, you should be fine" and i lost 75% of my ZvPs due to cannon rushing, 60% of my ZvTs due to bunker rushing, honestly. Safe builds didn't help me at all (i gained a far better win rate going blind 15 hatch then 11 pool 18 hatch) its not even really scouting from what i remember tho, I would scout a lot of these but i'd still just die (eg the probe kept putting down cannons and then cancelling them and then just ended up walking away so i hadn't been mining for the past 2 minutes and he would just a-move to victory, etc. Its not really safe builds but safe playstyles; i scouted my base like naniwa and it helped a bit. Problem being how do you deal with these cheeses? eg. the rule is 3 probes per pylon to dps it down, 4 per cannon etc, but it isn't feasible to do so when your opponent can just put up 4 cannons and now 16 of your probes haven't mined for 30 seconds to make the opponent lose ~120 minerals. I never really lost a straight up macro game from what I remember but the real problem really is dealing with cheese, its hard to tell someone exactly how to do it (i was told build a spine as i see a bunker) but then 2 marines would dps it down and i had to cancel it, but by then the bunker was up killing my drones, etc. Sure telling people a safe build kinda somewhat might help other people but i just ranted about how it didn't help me. at all. 15 hatch in bronze, all the way. (even z v z, i know) | ||
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Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
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RiceBowl2
United States24 Posts
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On February 26 2012 10:39 Ooshmagoosh wrote: So true... When I play 2vs2 out of the custom games list, you'd be surprised how many people just copy the Very Hard A.I., or just build an engineering bay, take both geysers, get a planetary, then build marauders tanks and turrets for 20 minutes. Blizzard already gave the most important pieces of information you need to get out bronze in their loading screen tips (Constantly build workers to increase your production, 3 workers fill a mineral patch, expanding early is good if risky, etc.) so I don't think it would violate the whole spirit of "It's a strategy game, make your own thing up" if they were to give a small multiplayer tutorial that taught those things. I think the biggest problem is that the AI never plays a macro game. This seems to be one of the reasons why everyone just super metagames the few AI cheeses, which would explain why so many people just cannon up one base and go void rays, among similar mediocre turtle strategies. | ||
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galzohar
Israel100 Posts
If someone was to understand your build order and do it properly, not only he would get out of bronze, but he'd probably go up all the way to plat if not diamond. The problem of those players is not about not finding the correct build order, but rather their inability to execute anything at all. At least that's what I seem to understand after watching some players play at the bronze-gold level. | ||
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Taerix
United States41 Posts
On February 28 2012 14:10 Jotunheimr wrote: let me pitch in my 2 cents from when i played as bronze (season 4 so pretty recent, I was zerg too lol now protoss) Your build is safe as can be and will most likely win a lot of games in bronze, but the misunderstanding is really the build in that sense, safe playstyles can work but most people can get easily frustrated with them; I know people told me "zerg, pool before hatch, you should be fine" and i lost 75% of my ZvPs due to cannon rushing, 60% of my ZvTs due to bunker rushing, honestly. Safe builds didn't help me at all (i gained a far better win rate going blind 15 hatch then 11 pool 18 hatch) its not even really scouting from what i remember tho, I would scout a lot of these but i'd still just die (eg the probe kept putting down cannons and then cancelling them and then just ended up walking away so i hadn't been mining for the past 2 minutes and he would just a-move to victory, etc. Its not really safe builds but safe playstyles; i scouted my base like naniwa and it helped a bit. Problem being how do you deal with these cheeses? eg. the rule is 3 probes per pylon to dps it down, 4 per cannon etc, but it isn't feasible to do so when your opponent can just put up 4 cannons and now 16 of your probes haven't mined for 30 seconds to make the opponent lose ~120 minerals. I never really lost a straight up macro game from what I remember but the real problem really is dealing with cheese, its hard to tell someone exactly how to do it (i was told build a spine as i see a bunker) but then 2 marines would dps it down and i had to cancel it, but by then the bunker was up killing my drones, etc. Sure telling people a safe build kinda somewhat might help other people but i just ranted about how it didn't help me. at all. 15 hatch in bronze, all the way. (even z v z, i know) Interesting, maybe I'll put a small video series together about dealing with cheese. On February 28 2012 15:55 naggerNZ wrote: Anyone capable of following a build order listed with supply values will not be in Bronze. Any guide written for this level needs to be far more broad. The problem with that though is they need to know what to do next and what's possible. If you just say "build 2 Barracks early and make Marines & Marauders" that's pretty vague. When is early? How many units is it possible to get by doing that? etc. On February 28 2012 23:08 galzohar wrote: No disrespect to the OP, but in my experience there are so many reasons for people to get stuck in bronze that it's just impossible to write down a guide that they will read and get out of bronze. They probably read several guides already, and their real problem is not being able to understand/implement what they are reading. Be it because they just can't use mouse/keyboard/hotkeys/etc properly, or just don't understand basic game concepts that make them unable to understand what your guide is talking about. If someone was to understand your build order and do it properly, not only he would get out of bronze, but he'd probably go up all the way to plat if not diamond. The problem of those players is not about not finding the correct build order, but rather their inability to execute anything at all. At least that's what I seem to understand after watching some players play at the bronze-gold level. That's a good point, mindset and understanding probably have a lot to do with it. Though there are Bronze players who know a bit about hotkeys and just feel lost while playing. Maybe I need to add more about how to execute a build. Thanks for the feedback. | ||
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TheSwamp
United States1497 Posts
On February 28 2012 15:43 RiceBowl2 wrote: Not really gonna get a strong macro game without upgrades. Learn what macro means before posting. This is a really good idea! I wish someone had told me to just make as many drones as possible when I was in silver. I was always too focused on trying to copy the pros and having good muta micro. Also, I love the "bg" at the end of the game. | ||
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tapk69
Portugal264 Posts
When i play zerg i always do 2 rax bunker rush , against toss 1-1-1 and against terran its 1-1-1 or 1 rax-expand... Attacking is the way to go , control the map , pressure him , start to micro , problem with bronze is most games are 200 vs 200 supply A-move and then remax if your zerg , warp if your toss , pray if your terran.. Choose the most confortable race and then start to do the go-to builds , you will win a LOT of games | ||
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Taerix
United States41 Posts
On February 29 2012 00:14 tapk69 wrote: Well im no pro , but to get out of bronze you must win and to win you must start to gain some game sense... Attack attack attack , if you guys are playing terran learn to do 1 build for each race and master it... When i play zerg i always do 2 rax bunker rush , against toss 1-1-1 and against terran its 1-1-1 or 1 rax-expand... Attacking is the way to go , control the map , pressure him , start to micro , problem with bronze is most games are 200 vs 200 supply A-move and then remax if your zerg , warp if your toss , pray if your terran.. Choose the most confortable race and then start to do the go-to builds , you will win a LOT of games I agree, but memorizing 1 build for each matchup can be pretty overwhelming for a new player. That's why I tried to find a build order that is simple and good against all 3 races so they can quickly get used to doing it and see some quick results. | ||
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