EPTI was accidentally moved into gold after moving away from SC2 as bronze, then getting lucky in my 5 placement matches a season or two ago, and now I'm back in Silver which may or may not be appropriate. I'm looking forward to diving deep in Season 7 and seeing if I can finally make my game a lot less ugly. Thanks in advance for the help!
[G] How to get out of bronze w/ macro (not cheese) - Page 10
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Loxon
United States20 Posts
I was accidentally moved into gold after moving away from SC2 as bronze, then getting lucky in my 5 placement matches a season or two ago, and now I'm back in Silver which may or may not be appropriate. I'm looking forward to diving deep in Season 7 and seeing if I can finally make my game a lot less ugly. Thanks in advance for the help! | ||
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awaller
United States23 Posts
I am having problems with Terran. I am beating Protoss and Zerg, but lost my last 5 games against Terran. Teraan with tanks are destroying me. I have seen other post stating the problem,but I have not seen a workable response. Please advise. Thanks | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On April 10 2012 22:00 Loxon wrote: I've been messing with this when time allows over the past couple months, and it's definitely a nice foundation for my play. My question is -- is there some sort of benchmark to measure yourself against to know when you've hit the mark with this build and can start deviating from it? Basically, is there some sort of standard to measure oneself against since winning/losing doesn't specifically mean you are doing it "right"? For example, is there a certain point where one should hit 200 supply with a 2:1 ratio of marines/marauders? I'm not sure that's the best benchmark, as obviously there's plenty of units to be lost at that point. Is maximum efficiency met when you can support X barracks per orbital command with minimal floating resources? I don't think there's a real measure or benchmark after your first push (upto then there's not much to deviate from so the numbers are quite clear). After that you can just load the replay and check for idle production or update buildings, supply blocks... well... the macro stuff that we're learning here... and when/why it happened. Also I think you will deviate from this build quite much automatically over time. You will start microing more as macro goes faster. Then while microing your ... off and still losing tons of marines to banelings, you will start deviating by adding tanks for example. Then you'll have to focus on your macro again, because that additional unit might mix up your macro cycles. You'll finally get things with macro and the additional unit feeling good, but then something else comes up... change something, refine it... you get the idea. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On April 10 2012 22:22 awaller wrote: Hi all I am having problems with Terran. I am beating Protoss and Zerg, but lost my last 5 games against Terran. Teraan with tanks are destroying me. I have seen other post stating the problem,but I have not seen a workable response. Please advise. Thanks Most problem i've seen here so far is with Terrans that stay on 1 base and turtle with tanks for quite long. I guess that's your problem too. The response is just to expand and build more units. If you have double his bases, it doesn't matter, if you lose tons of units in tankshots. You just insta-rebuild them and throw them against his tanks again. If you concentrate on macro, you should be able to out-produce and starve him. | ||
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Ope
Germany5 Posts
Thanks and greets | ||
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Ope
Germany5 Posts
I mean I know I won`t win every game witch that build Sorry typing fail :-) I meant "with" of course | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On April 10 2012 23:52 Ope wrote: Just one question from a bronze-newbie :-) Does this build really work in all three matchups? I mean I know I won`t win every game witch that build but you pointed out that this is how you can win a lot generally right? Thanks and greets Having tried a similar build in silver with pure marine instead of rines and rauders, I'd say it works best against Zerg, reasonably well against Toss and poorly against Terran. In the end my winrates looked like TvZ 80% TvP 70% TvT 10% Even if it only works in two matchups its well worth learning, though. And if you get sick of getting trounced by Terran who are aware of the existence of siege tanks and have passable macro, then you can either -work even harder on your macro -work on flanking his army with multiple groups of MM and stimming in while he's unsieged -add medivacs and practice using drops to get around his tanks -try a different build for TvT while keeping the macro lessons you've learned. Marine/tank/viking needs good macro too! | ||
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Ope
Germany5 Posts
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On April 11 2012 03:15 Ope wrote: You said it works against Zerg very well, even if he`s playing Banelings? My Marinesplit is definitely bad as hell! Surprisingly, yes! Just make more marines then he has banelings. http://drop.sc/157588 (apologies if that's not the one with the banelings, I don't have them labelled well, but you can get the idea). Works against infestors too, for now. http://drop.sc/153670 The reason this works against Zerg more than Terran and Protoss, is that you're costing the Zerg resources every time he suicides some banelings or spends infestor energy on fungals, so if you keep attacking he will run out of both. Whereas a well positioned colossus or siegetank force can take down masses of marines and marauders with very little casualties. So that's where the Soviet style human wave attacks stop working, and you need to get a bit more subtle. | ||
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SCbiff
110 Posts
(but not queued up!) I don't like this advice to players that are struggling with macro. Yes, it's strictly true for perfect macro, but it's FAR better to have some queued SCVs than to skip production. OK, don't queue up 5 or anything, but having one or even two in the pipe helps beginning players smooth out the rough edges of their play. They can work on no-queue later when they have the rhythm of macro down well. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
In TvT I have the least problems, when the opponent goes tanks, because he just has so much less stuff to protect them. I must admit though that I micro a little to focus tanks down first. TvP is quite ok... just had some problems here and there, if the opponent was on 1 base when I pushed the first time. | ||
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Grubbegrabbn
Sweden174 Posts
On April 11 2012 17:07 BurningRanger wrote: It's funny how much different the experiences in matchups are. I have most problems in TvZ, because usually he runs the Lings by my Marauders and kills the Marines first so I don't have enough dps anymore. From there on it's an uphill battle for me. Although I also won games where I threw wave after wave of MM into Banelings. In TvT I have the least problems, when the opponent goes tanks, because he just has so much less stuff to protect them. I must admit though that I micro a little to focus tanks down first. TvP is quite ok... just had some problems here and there, if the opponent was on 1 base when I pushed the first time. Strangely enough I have just lost 1 TvZ with this strategy (1 base baneling bust). I send the first two waves straight to the natural and the 3rd wave I split up if I spot a 3rd base. This causes most Z to loose either the natural or the 3rd base (yes the infamous 1 army hotkey syndrome). Tbh I havent met anyone going pure mass zerglings but I can see the problem. Do you have a replay? This game my build flew out the window since a big pack of mutas made things... interesting: drop.sc/158100 I even had to cheat (got an ebay). | ||
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Klyberess
Sweden345 Posts
On April 11 2012 17:07 BurningRanger wrote: It's funny how much different the experiences in matchups are. I have most problems in TvZ, because usually he runs the Lings by my Marauders and kills the Marines first so I don't have enough dps anymore. From there on it's an uphill battle for me. Although I also won games where I threw wave after wave of MM into Banelings. In TvT I have the least problems, when the opponent goes tanks, because he just has so much less stuff to protect them. I must admit though that I micro a little to focus tanks down first. TvP is quite ok... just had some problems here and there, if the opponent was on 1 base when I pushed the first time. He ... ran his lings past your marauders and killed your marines? That's pretty much what you want to happen, lings should get shredded by marines. | ||
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Josep
United States9 Posts
On April 10 2012 23:52 Ope wrote: Just one question from a bronze-newbie :-) Does this build really work in all three matchups? I mean I know I won`t win every game witch that build but you pointed out that this is how you can win a lot generally right? I've gradually worked my way into platinum with minor modifications of this build -- I have slowly added infantry upgrades; a bit of mule conservation around 7m vs. terran/protoss when I am worried about cloak, and a minimal amount of micro. (Minimal amount of micro: Maybe we'll move forward a bit so the automatic attacks will target the hatchery, not the larva; perhaps a scan to destroy the dark templar; perhaps another attack-move command after the infestors fungal all my troops would help kill those defenseless infestors...) In general, I find this works best against Zerg. Even with banelings, infestors, or countless bases, Zerg just doesn't make enough and the constant waves of troops is enough to pound Zerg into the ground. Counter-attacks and mutalisks are just not very threatening when you are always in their base. It works so-so against Terran, even after I've stopped hurling troops into heavily defended siege lines. I do fine against non-tank strategies and I can usually win a war of attrition against a 2-base seige tank terran. But otherwise tanks + medivacs + stim usually beat me out (although usually I'm behind on my macro by that point, so I'm not saying it can't work). Protoss -- it works well, but games usually end early. Protoss that get 3+ bases and AoE up are usually fatal. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:58 Klyberess wrote: He ... ran his lings past your marauders and killed your marines? That's pretty much what you want to happen, lings should get shredded by marines. No, actually I want the lings to attack the marauders (=meatshields) in the front, so the marines can shred them unharmed. And btw... that's just in the first push, when the Zerg has FE'ed and has lings and spines only to defend. I'm behind, if I couldn't kill the expansion... atleast that's my impression. | ||
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mohoji
United Kingdom2 Posts
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Southern Cross
1 Post
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Djxinator
United Kingdom14 Posts
There are players in High Bronze who literally steamroll me simply with counters, higher tech or better micro. The level I play at in High Bronze involves Specific builds, tech switching and reactivity to unit comps. I'm guessing a build like this for Toss would involve the same expansion timings, just using the typical 9 Pylon/13 Gate/15 Gas/16 Pylon/17 Cyber/Warpgate Research + 2 or 3 Gateway build With an expand. Ball of Stalkers and Zealots to deal with Roaches or Lings and Marines or Marauders. The issue is, by the time the second expansion is up, if the pressure from the 7 min push hasnt crippled the opponent he will respond to the push with an expansion and a tech increase with upgrades and teir 2/3 units. I usually play 3 Gate Robo as standard vs Terran and Zerg (When playing Zerg I get 2 Gate + Zealots + Wall-off and transition into Robo to counter tech switch to roaches), PvP is my worst matchup and will be worked on later so I tend to DT Rush that matchup My biggest problem recently is Zerg, they seem to be going Mutas alot and harrassing my main base - its frustrating and it ruins my macro and forces me to tech to blink early and use a lot of minerals on Cannons - Is this something that can be mitigated by high macro/low micro play? I wouldve thought not unless a base race is intended to ensue. Either way, I'll give this a go, replacing the Marines with Lots and the Marauders with Stalkers, and the Rax with Gateways, while making a few tweaks that feel right for me as a player. I'll post feedback either way, saying either why it worked, or why it didnt. | ||
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crow_mw
Poland115 Posts
In Bronze league this training routine does exactly what it is supposed to do - it allows you to practice your macro while still winning games. In bronze this allowed me to have around 90% win ration, while still making errors. The enemy race didn't really matter, everything got steamrolled by size of my army. I feel the a-attack enemy base was the main point here and made me realize how much focus I put on managing my army made me fall behind on my macro before. The only army managment I needed to use straight off was focus a supply depot in terran wall, as without it the army just wandered around enemy platform. As I played this (even with this high win ratio It was quite a few games I was sitting on top position in my bronze league) it learned to have enough time to check my scouting or control the army more and more, without slips on macro. Bottom part of Silver league looked pretty much the same. When I reached top of Silver (where I am now) things started to vary a bit. Protoss are still easy to beat and it takes an exceptional (for this level) protoss to beat you. Zergs are somewhat more resiliant. I still have a decent win rate, but it is much harder than against protoss. Roach pushes or mutalisks are not a problem, but if he goes zergling/baneling heavy he will anihilate me if I a-attack over creep. And if the oponent manages to tech to Broodlords it is gg. This does not trouble me, as I still consider this a training routine more than 'always win' strategy', and win rate against zerg is still quite decent. However, against terran this strategy is almost a certain loss at this level. If he put a bunker at front door and didn't FE your first push will do minimal damage. And if the second push doesn't cripple your enemy this is over, as when opponent has more than two siege tanks your attacks do no damage to him. If you keep the marine+marauder only routine, you eventually die to MMM + tanks. All in all this routine allowed me to improve my macro a ton, while also getting me to top silver league (I think even with poor TvT matchup it will/would get me to gold soon enough). As time progresses I find more and more time to add additional army control, upgrades, etc. It is also clear from this point how I transition into MMM, Marine+tank, etc. | ||
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Snoodles
401 Posts
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