[G] How to get out of bronze w/ macro (not cheese) - Page 9

vdaghan

1 Post

March 18 2012 20:01 GMT

#161

Bronze here. Tried the build yesterday on ladder, after a few practice matches against AI. One advice I can give is to keep an eye on how your opponent is dealing with your army. I was keeping myself from looking at the engagements, where at some point (which was too late) I saw that my 120/200 army (the rest was scvs, except some 20-30 M&Ms waiting for the next wave) was being slaughtered by 10-ish DTs ^^ Apparently my huge bio ball was being slayed at my opponent's ramp while I was trying my best (and being successfull) to not to look at the engagement... Watching my thousands of barracks burning down while I was laughing my a** off to my mistake was worth the loss anyway.

Apart from this fun experience, I have seen myself doing/checking things without even thinking. I guess "good habits" are finding their way into my play. Another good part was, during the replay, seeing my opponent starving on minerals as my waves was killing his/her natural. How desperate s/he was...

Thanks very much for this build, Taerix

Snoodles

401 Posts

March 18 2012 21:21 GMT

#162

Hey guys I'm almost on my 100th win after starting to use this strat (#1 Silver)and let me tell you the habit that this strat forms is really, really good for you. I average around 80 SCVs per game even though I've abandoned this strat in favor of Max's Terran Tutorial because unupgraded bio spam is useless against templars and collossus. Who cares if you have 20 or 40 more supply if 2 storms can void that advantage?

Grubbegrabbn

Sweden174 Posts

March 19 2012 18:45 GMT

#163

Hey again - just a suggestion to OP:
Add a small explanation (spoiler) as to why it works so exceptionally well.

I conjured up some (maybe incorrect) info to get you started:

Why it works:
1. You can support continous MM production + SCVs and depots until 7:30 and have 400 minerals saved up for an expo.
2. You stop depot production since your 7:00 attack force will die and free up supply. Because of this you can afford 2 quick barracks immediately after expansion.
3. Your first base is saturated, you have the maximum number of useful SCVs mining there, just as your expansion is finished. Moving 8 SCVs to the expansion increases your income by about 50%. Now you can afford units off 4 barracks and double SCV+depot production.
4. With double SCV production and MULES your 3rd expo can be built as early as 10:30 and is finished right as your first two bases have the maximum number of useful SCVs. You can afford 4 barracks at around 12:00, in part because your 11:00 attack force starts to die and you can halt depot production briefly.
5. When your (quite early) 3rd kicks in all hell breaks loose and you can go completely nuts.

I guess most of the high level guys figure this out more or less automatically but for bronze-to-gold scrubs (as myself) this is not immediately clear. Learned from watching my own replays lol.

Oh, and after the 4th you can begin sacking SCVs (have them tag along on one of your attacks). Keep 1-2 on each mineral patch in each base and rely more on MULES. This way you get a bigger attack force against opponents that just refuse to die.

The neat bonus that the attacks at 7 and 11 completely blows away most early expanding opponents as well as those investing in too much tech on low base count... well... no... maybe focus on the macro part

Or add 2 spoilers (one about why this is good economy and one about why the attack timings are so good).

TL;DR
Plz add spoilers as to why this works so well.

KiddCabbage

United States9 Posts

March 20 2012 12:30 GMT

#164

High silver here being matched up against mostly gold and even a plat player; been using this strat to improve my macro, and I feel like in only about 15 games, I'm seeing progress. In fact, I even had one game where I had to send about 30 SCVs in to tank damage because I was sitting at over 100 SCVs. That is definitely a first for me.

I've been executing this build pretty decently every time, and definitely see where I can start changing the strat for each matchup. In each matchup, there is a bane of mine:

TvT: They'll have tanks on the high ground at the 7:00 attack, negating any damage I can do. Games last a long time, and I eventually can't do any damage throwing a hundred 0-0 marines and marauders against tanks and 3-3 marines with medivacs.
My next step: If they haven't expanded by my 7:00 push, get an engi bay for 1-1 and turrets for possible banshee harrass.

TvZ: This is probably my best matchup with this strat so far, but without stim especially it is really hard to deal with muta harrass and speedling runbys.
My next step: If I can't take their natural, take an engi bay for turrets and sensor towers, and research stim.

TvP: If they don't FE, I run into big problems. They'll kill off my 7:00 push with their 1-base army, and by the time they push back, I haven't gotten enough units up to defend, even with a bunker.
My next step: If they haven't expanded by my 7:00 push, I pull back and take my third even earlier.

You'll notice that in each of my solutions, I am still avoiding higher tier units if I can. I am guessing, however, that the next step beyond what I've said above will be medivacs or 3-3, though, requiring more tech.

Creekman

Germany23 Posts

March 20 2012 18:36 GMT

#165

You sir are a god, just played a few games with this build, result: 3 wins 1 lose
I only lost because i didnt micro at all because he had storms but nevermind.

here are the replays:
Replays Game 1-3

KiddCabbage

United States9 Posts

March 21 2012 06:06 GMT

#166

Here's a replay of me using this build to beat a gold level protoss who FE.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34206218/Macro terran strat.SC2Replay

Note that I mixed stim and 1-1 in the strat to spend some more minerals (started a factory at the very end for 2-2 and 3-3). There were a few hiccups (like forgetting to rally half my barracks at one point and leaving half my army at home... but still ending up on top). I would just hit 1t whenever I saw my units were in combat - no more micro than that. I can get smoother on my upgrades, for sure.

Creekman

Germany23 Posts

March 21 2012 16:03 GMT

#167

So i also have problems against zerg, against terra when he goes mech i micro a little bit. My Plan for zerg is now to do the first push, with the expand, take all the gas and build factory to add siege tanks to my army. Will this work out? Mabye also a starport and do a mass drop or something. In the early mid game the zerg is easy to beat. But in the endgame he has tons of bases and creep spread all over the place.

Also im super upset if my expos get harassed by my opponent. Just drop 1-2 bunkers or should i leave a part of my army there?

KiddCabbage

United States9 Posts

March 21 2012 18:41 GMT

#168

I'm sure that adding tanks and drops would make this build stronger... but it goes against the whole point of the build, since you can't really just 1a tanks and dropships. If you're looking to do that kind of stuff and take winning seriously over just improving your macro, then I'd look for a more standard strategy than this.

felisconcolori

United States6168 Posts

March 22 2012 12:14 GMT

#169

On March 22 2012 03:41 KiddCabbage wrote:
I'm sure that adding tanks and drops would make this build stronger... but it goes against the whole point of the build, since you can't really just 1a tanks and dropships. If you're looking to do that kind of stuff and take winning seriously over just improving your macro, then I'd look for a more standard strategy than this.

Tanks, not so much. But you can 1a dropships. I've taken to dropping an engineering bay, then a factory during production downtime if I have the minerals, and eventually an armory and second engineeering bay. Since I was adding a factory, I'd reactor it, build a starport next to it, then swap.

Now I have marines, marauders, and medivacs, with upgrades to help keep gas/minerals low (I usually only have 3 gas geysers). Then I have a mass bio ball with the flying healbus and upgrades, and I 1a-derp that at the enemy. The only problem comes if the opponent has some massive AoE (massed tanks, templars, colossi, banelings) but if I've outpaced my opponents with expansions, I normally will have enough meat shield to get through them. And with the medivacs, banelings can be survivable unless a zerg goes for an insanely high number of them. Have to be careful with pathing sometimes (medivacs taking the straight route showing up alone doesn't help) but it works. As for any static defense, after 4 bases I have enough minerals to litter the field with PFs to accompany my OCs, surrounded by supply depots and turrets.

Of course, I'm Silver, so YMMV - and I still don't win all the time with this build, but it's doing wonders for getting me into the habit of constantly thinking and checking on production. (I have thought to myself "Crap! Why isn't that barracks producing anything? Stupid!" when there's no combat rather than "Crap! Why can't I stutter step like MKP?!?" Which, I assure you is more productive... no one can stutter step like MKP.

Snoodles

401 Posts

March 23 2012 16:24 GMT

#170

I beat a Diamond Zerg player(with twice my APM!) with a modified version of this strat. Basically after the third expo and 6th barracks I start upgrading and make medivacs. The medivacs are what saves you from infestors and banelings and allow you to hop from base to base to pressure zerg. granted I'm sure it caught the diamond by suprise because nobody does this and if he had known how to prepare I wouldn't have stood a chance.
http://www.mediafire.com/?p22h1p181w07651

CoffeeHouse

United States2 Posts

March 25 2012 19:59 GMT

#171

I started this strategy 3 days ago and have posted some replays of when it went good and when "I" went bad. The strategy is solid and makes those little mistakes so glaring when they happen (like not repairing a 6 pool wall attack).

I've consistently moved up in my division, feel I play better AND with less stress, games are closer, it's easier to fight cheese or all-in as Terran (I struggled with 6pool as Toss) AND when I tech or micro my macro doesn't suffer like it sure would have if I hadn't started this strat. It's great at building good habits, albeit I have yet to remember to do everything. At the least, it's gotten me to pay attention to details so something that is LATE is better than before when it would have been FORGOTTEN.

The one really beneficial change to my play is now I am always expecting, pushing, planning to be the aggressor because I can continue to macro.

Thank you!

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=member_replays&member_id=203794

Cyro

United Kingdom20275 Posts

March 25 2012 20:13 GMT

#172

On March 19 2012 06:21 Snoodles wrote:
Hey guys I'm almost on my 100th win after starting to use this strat (#1 Silver)and let me tell you the habit that this strat forms is really, really good for you. I average around 80 SCVs per game even though I've abandoned this strat in favor of Max's Terran Tutorial because unupgraded bio spam is useless against templars and collossus. Who cares if you have 20 or 40 more supply if 2 storms can void that advantage?

1rax expand gets 2 medivacs before storm finishes unless you rush to it really hard, are you really telling me with a 1 base opener you cant kill him before templar?

1 base colossus is another story, but im sure until ~platinum level you could defeat it with unupgraded marines and good macro (low idle money), maybe a flank or two on the army.

2 base colossus, well, you can simply kill him again, because honestly, even in mid diamond atm (i was too inactive, so il be around there for a few dozen games) i find that people cant macro at all, and i see them spike to 3k+ minerals when trying to manage taking a fourth and fifth base, after having shaky, questionable openings, missing any timings that they should have hit completely, leaving production idle, placing buildings late, and worst of all, not knowing WHY they are doing what they are doing.

With this you are simply building lots of marines and spending your money well so that you can attack move over about 70% of the active starcraft 2 community players (mid platinum) if you know the time in a specific game that it is appropriate to do so. Have basic game knowledge and tweak the expand/attack timings with the information from basic scouting (not sure if that is in the OP) and you are really, honestly, good for much more than silver/gold

awaller

United States23 Posts

March 27 2012 14:18 GMT

#173

On March 13 2012 07:44 j89007 wrote:
Your right, this is a good build for Low-level Bronze players to take advantage of. I wouldn't rely on it though. Just more like an example to build upon. Great job though!

I agree with your point " Just more to build on", but are all bronze level players low level?. Is there a cut off in the
in Bronze say the top 25? Would you consider Silver and Gold low level,Bronze being the lowest in that group?
My average rank for seasons 3 thru 5 is 25. I am presently rank 7 in season 6. I am 16 and 5 since I started this build.

xenobarf

Sweden47 Posts

April 02 2012 11:35 GMT

#174

Currently in silver, I never intended on playing terran but this macro drilling is great, not because I'm winning most of the time but rather because I can feel my muscle memory getting better and better which means my mechanics are getting better.

Thanks Taerix.

ETisME

12276 Posts

April 02 2012 12:04 GMT

#175

you have mobility to make up for the weaker army, drop drop drop to his death feels really good if you can do it right

birdmanilikeflying

Australia22 Posts

April 02 2012 12:05 GMT

#176

Haha.. that's interesting to see this post.
I definitely recall playing you Taerix on ladder.
I kept wondering why you kept sending huge congo lines of marine/marauder with absolutely no micro.

Fun to play against too.

infuseE

Sweden1 Post

April 03 2012 09:11 GMT

#177

Ive been trying this build out in top silver and its working best in this order ( according to the games i played it );

1) vs Zerg
2) vs Protoss
3) vs Terran

Reasons;

1) Zerg mostly goes FE vid mainly zergs+queens+spines as defence when the first attack comes which often is not enough with the marauders in the mix so this typically results in their FE being destroyed

2) Its often abit harder do execute this build against protoss'es with decent micro depending on how fast they expand due
to they having enough zeolots to completely block and crush the first attack and then they often Counter and take out my expand which delayes everything

3) I found it very risky do execute this build at all vs Terran since most terrans in TvT dont go FE, rather teching fast and get 1-2 tanks out super fast.

Rushing marines+marauders against walled-in tanks on the highground doesnt work that well.

Overall im very happy to have learned this build since it gives very good results against Zergs and Protoss'es with alot more wins then losses but any tips on how to make it more vs Terran useful? Im currently not using it in TvT at all

Perhaps: On the first attack,Why dont just check for the FE, send some lonly marine forward to see if there are any tanks;

1) Yes he have tanks: Add a factory and a starport and convert to reactor starport. Start dropping and use the fact that tanks are slow and as he have to move his small army to defend the drops you can at the mean time break in his door and ideally take out the tanks

Other than that just execute the build as instructed

This build is macro intended i know but you can just add drop play with loading up, right click on the location on the map and then D and it will drop automatically where you want it. With the huge resources this build provides this should work well without affecting your economy to much and if you do it right it will make the opponents economy bleed and he will have to divide his army --> Make him more vulnerable to your real attacks

All in All: Start dropping in TvT and TvP

Though this shouldnt be done before the FE ofcourse

What do you guys think?

BurningRanger

Germany303 Posts

April 03 2012 10:05 GMT

#178

I've had the least problems in TvT with this build yet (having it just changed a little by switching the Combat Shields with Stim and doing that little bit of micro by stimming my stuff before going into a fight and then back to macro).

However the problem with the enemy that didn't expand I know from Protosses. So regardless of your enemies' race, if they didn't expand it's imo best to run a marine up his main ramp. Sometimes you find quite few stuff there, cos he was trying something fishy, and you can run the rest up to go for the kill. If he happens to have a load of stuff there, just leave a marine at his natural and walk the rest home. Maybe even leave another one somewhere on the way home, so you can see any attack coming early enough.
So as you have expanded while moving out, you're now ahead in eco, if he didn't expand. Just go on following this guide building stuff like crazy and expanding further. If you see him take his expansion finally, go punish him for trying to get a toe onto the map.

I think everyone can put up a little bit of micro inbetween the macro. So send your army to a bit outside of the enemies base. When they arrive, jump your screen there, move all Marauders to the front and then box everything and (Stim) attackmove and go back to macro. Doesn't afford much, but Marauders are so much better meatshields than Marines. They even take a few Tankshots or Baneling hits without too much of a problem.

krikit

Sweden16 Posts

April 03 2012 13:08 GMT

#179

Finaly got promoted to silver last week after about 40 wins using this build exlusicivly. Facing mostly Silver and some gold opponents now I find that I can still generaly still overwhelm Zerg and Protoss opponents unless the colosues count gets out of hand but my win rate in TvT is pretty bad. Now my macro is far from perfect so that is part of issue but it seems like as infuseE said alot of Terrans turtle and tech quickly to tanks basicly sending your first two pushes to the slaughter unless you retreat (and without tanks yourself it's hard to contain them) and then doom drop you in your main. I guess i'll try to start messing around drops myself.

I also notice that while you get a really instinct on how to spend minerals when I'm trying to add some gas stuff to my build I'm pretty bad at spending it efficiently (floating lots of gas) but I guess that's matter of practice.

TheWaldo

Belgium14 Posts

April 09 2012 20:32 GMT

#180

Hey man, here comes another big thank you for this build, finally I'm really improving my macro!

I've been in EU Bronze pretty much from release until now (apart from a brief stint in Silver which felt undeserved and made me very uncomfortable), but now I'm firmly in Silver and facing mostly Top 25 Silver and Gold, still winning about 80% of my matches Most of my losses have been due to a bad response to cheese however, so I rarely get outmacroed and win even when my units are hardcountered (banes, siege lines, colossi).

Also, today I went on the NA ladder with the intention to play until I lost a game. After 5 hours my win streak was ended by a Blue Screen of Death and a sudden pc reboot. I was at 14 wins in a row by that point. Somehow I feel Blizzard hacked my pc ^^

Anyway, thanks very much again, I have almost no ladder anxiety anymore just by doing this build with confidence, so I can finally 'just play' and improve! <3

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