EPT[G] How to get out of bronze w/ macro (not cheese) - Page 7
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Moosy
Canada396 Posts
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imbroglio
United States3 Posts
On March 13 2012 00:34 Mormel wrote: In my experience: if the 7:30 attack did some damage,you're good. If it didn't do any damage, you win around 40%. Also, it got my out of bronze. I think in about 50 games. So thank you very much for the guide! This is my experience, too. In TvT, they usually get tanks out by that time or put up some bunkers. In TvP, it happens if they do a forge fast expand. I didn't recall the build perfectly and was pushing out at 5:40 with about 7 marines and 3 marauders(not sure what the exact number is) and maps with a long distance between bases my combat shield would finish right when my marines got there. If they were massing marines as well, I might lose a small battle, but if they were teching they usually put a barracks and supply depot at the front so I could supply block them and attack again at 7:30 and expand while keeping them from expanding. After I realized I should be pushing out at 7:00, my guys don't get there until 8:00 on a big map and I started running into more problems as they would actually get tanks out or some bunkers built. Some had even already expanded by that point. Which is better? 5:40 or 7:00? Weaknesses I've noticed to this build for Terran: TvT: *They get tanks before you attack. *They expand with a bunker and marines. TvP: *They build cannons and expand. Cannons aren't too bad, but the tanks just slaughter my army. I haven't had too many problems with TvZ in bronze, but that may be because Zerg requires more focus on macro than Terran or Protoss. I've gotten up to rank 11 in Bronze and faced a few Silver league players, but I'm sort of hitting a wall against players with above strategies. | ||
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Mormel
Netherlands57 Posts
On March 13 2012 04:22 imbroglio wrote: This is my experience, too. In TvT, they usually get tanks out by that time or put up some bunkers. In TvP, it happens if they do a forge fast expand. I didn't recall the build perfectly and was pushing out at 5:40 with about 7 marines and 3 marauders(not sure what the exact number is) and maps with a long distance between bases my combat shield would finish right when my marines got there. If they were massing marines as well, I might lose a small battle, but if they were teching they usually put a barracks and supply depot at the front so I could supply block them and attack again at 7:30 and expand while keeping them from expanding. After I realized I should be pushing out at 7:00, my guys don't get there until 8:00 on a big map and I started running into more problems as they would actually get tanks out or some bunkers built. Some had even already expanded by that point. Which is better? 5:40 or 7:00? Weaknesses I've noticed to this build for Terran: TvT: *They get tanks before you attack. *They expand with a bunker and marines. TvP: *They build cannons and expand. Cannons aren't too bad, but the tanks just slaughter my army. I haven't had too many problems with TvZ in bronze, but that may be because Zerg requires more focus on macro than Terran or Protoss. I've gotten up to rank 11 in Bronze and faced a few Silver league players, but I'm sort of hitting a wall against players with above strategies. I had the same feeling, with the hitting the wall part. Just keep going, don't let the loses get to you, you will get better and you will get there. Add some other tech when you spot the tanks, like medvacs and upgrades. Nowadays I even research stim every now and then. Nothing like catching your oponent unseiged. | ||
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j89007
7 Posts
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ManBearPigNL
Netherlands64 Posts
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patrickh
Denmark6 Posts
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
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teddydubb
2 Posts
It is really great terran macro practice for anyone lower than diamond, imo. (I'm gold 1v1) I used it in a custom game and was able to keep a low-level masters protoss at bay for a 25 minute game. I only a-moved my army without any micro or stim, and he only mustered the army to attack my 5th base around 23 minutes. By then, he had 5 collosi so mm became increasingly ineffective. But doesn't matter; had macro. | ||
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Grubbegrabbn
Sweden174 Posts
On March 13 2012 04:22 imbroglio wrote: This is my experience, too. In TvT, they usually get tanks out by that time or put up some bunkers. In TvP, it happens if they do a forge fast expand. I didn't recall the build perfectly and was pushing out at 5:40 with about 7 marines and 3 marauders(not sure what the exact number is) and maps with a long distance between bases my combat shield would finish right when my marines got there. If they were massing marines as well, I might lose a small battle, but if they were teching they usually put a barracks and supply depot at the front so I could supply block them and attack again at 7:30 and expand while keeping them from expanding. After I realized I should be pushing out at 7:00, my guys don't get there until 8:00 on a big map and I started running into more problems as they would actually get tanks out or some bunkers built. Some had even already expanded by that point. Which is better? 5:40 or 7:00? The 7:00 push is more powerful imo, especially if you dont micro much. Going earlier is bad. If you do it right you should have 15 marines + 5 marauders (according to OP) at 7:00. In my experience, the average bronze/silver/gold player simply doesnt have enough stuff to combat this force efficiently and looses a tank or two and some SCVs. The 11:00 attack seals the deal. My losses so far (2 out of some 15+ games with this strat) are vs Toss alone. It turns out that a 1 basing sentry heavy toss with gold league force field skills can slice that stim-less and medivac-less army in neat chunks and just gobble it up. Or make DTs... | ||
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Captain Marksie
40 Posts
On March 14 2012 01:49 patrickh wrote: this guide got me from approx 250 points in bronze to 450 points and now i am stuck again, losing to top bronze but winning against 15 and lower bronze. i am currently sitting on a 5th place in bronze. i just finished a game where he only made marines and just attacked, and mass marines are actually better then some marines and a few marauders since he killed all my units with only marines. if i get promoted from being top 8 then its a fine guide, but otherwise it wont get u out of bronze. As weikor said it would help if you posted a replay. This build got me out of bronze easily, and was a total newb at the time with like 10 1v1 wins in my career (only got the game 2 months ago). I am now rank 3 in silver and only playing against, and 8/10 times easily beating, golds for the past 10 games or so, some of which are top 8 golds. I've made a few tweaks to the build since getting into silver but the basics are the same. Remember, dont get supply blocked. That one scv should be making supply depots almost constantly after the first expansion. Constanly produce units (SCVs and Marine/Marauder). Don't float minerals. If i ever see more than 500 i throw down more Rax or another CC. I have found its better to have too many Rax than you can afford to produce out of than not enough Rax and having minerals sitting in the bank. I can imagine the reason you aren't having any luck with this build is because of getting supply blocked and not constantly producing units. Dont forget to attack either. When i started i was always late on my attacks and expands and it hurt me majorly. Ive found you really need to be pressuring their expansion and if possible denying it completely. Some games i won simply by having 5 or 6 bases and keeping him on 1 by just chucking units at him, eventually he mined out and i won. He killed probably more than 4x the amount of units i killed of his but with the power of macro i had another wave ready as he finished off the one before | ||
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Snoodles
401 Posts
Here is a recent example where I go against a zerg who was really good for silver(he had double my apm). I did my best to stay broke and always producing. My final scv count was 95, I was largely broke, and my expansions were delayed due to pressure. Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?bn2li576k656t6b | ||
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RonNation
United States385 Posts
anyways, using this build he is cruisin through bronze league and already silver ^^ plus he is now useful in 3v3/4v4 matches | ||
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Captain Marksie
40 Posts
On March 14 2012 06:27 Snoodles wrote: Ok how are you guys faring in silver league? Has anyone gotten to gold with this strat? Ive found that this strat is a wild card in Silver league. I've beaten a few golds, but silver or gold what decides whether I win or not is if the opponent had decided on a turtle strat from the start. Be it protoss and cannons until collossi, terrans and tanks, or zerg and lots of spine crawlers zerglings and banelings. My 200/200 armies just disintegrate at late game, even when I cheat and get upgrades(which throw off the timings of the third or fourth). What happens is they will get me on the counter-attacks, before I've re-upped to another 200/200 army. Here is a recent example where I go against a zerg who was really good for silver(he had double my apm). I did my best to stay broke and always producing. My final scv count was 95, I was largely broke, and my expansions were delayed due to pressure. Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?bn2li576k656t6b I am rank 3 silver at the moment with this build and my last 10ish games have been against mid to high golds (highest being rank 5 if i remember correctly). I have ~80% winrate against these golds, and probably 90%+ against the silvers i was playing. So hopefully will get promoted soon if i keep beating these gold players. What seems to be the most deciding factor in my games is the first attack. If i havent slipped up until the 7:00 mark then i will either deny his expansion or will cause a lot of damage ensuring he wont be able to mount any threatening attacks for a while. If he hasnt taken an expansion and is going one base i just poke up his ramp and if there is way too much defense just wait in his natural so he has to fight to leave his base. (yes i know this deviates from the A move his base plan but i think the strat is more of a guide where once you get the basics down improve upon it) I have changed the build a little bit, instead of adding 2 rax at 8:00 i add just 1rax (vZ vT reactor, vP techlab) and 1 refinery instead and slightly earlier. Then at about 8:25 i get 2 E-bays and as soon as they finish start 1-1 and start stimpack (both at about 9:00 assuming you get the E-bays down on time). Then factory at about 9:40 and as soon as that finishes start an Armory (about 10:40). I try to also get a starport at about 11:30. I want to move out and attack and expand just as 1-1 and stimpack are about to finish (just before 12:00). Start 2-2 at this time to and get 2 refineries at the natural (or earlier if i have the spare mins). At about 13:00 i get 3 more rax (even out the total amount of techlabs and reactors). Then after pumping Marines Marauders and Medivacs i want to attack and expand again as soon as 2-2 finishes which is about 15:30 and start 3-3. I add more 4 more Rax (2 tech/2 reactor) and a starport for vikings if needed. Then attack and expand again when 3-3 finishes which is about 19:30 (if it looks like im going to reach 200/200 well before that time then i will attack earlier and then attack again at 19:30). Then keep attacking and expanding at 180+ food. So far i have only reached 3-3 once or twice. Most games end with the second attack with 1-1 and stim. If they are well defensed up at the front with the third attack i will drop with 1 or 2 of the medivacs in their base as im about to attack the front. | ||
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ZardiChar
United States21 Posts
I've only been playing SC2, my first RTS, for about 2 weeks and I've gone about 18-4 with it and the three losses were because of: -After first push, he went mass immortal and colossi -Lost to 1-1-1 after 1st push walked into 4 siege tanks -Cloaked banshees destroyed my base right after I had called MULE's. -Couldn't get my 3rd and 4th expos because of constant Muta harrass, also lost my entire army to banelings and infested terran Anyway, I'm confident that I'll be back into Silver soon enough! Interesting stories: -In one of the guys went for a 1 base carrier push, but held it off and he decided to build MASS cannons covering his ramp. Maybe 30-40 cannons. He only had that one base, 2 carriers, and about 10 probes, which were mining gas. Eventually I had to fly a barracks into his base and kill it off using about 4-5 marines. That was a 1 hour game. If I can find the replay I'll post it. It's great humour. -I first placed into Silver and worked my way up to #8 in my division as Protoss, but then I lost 3 games in a row to cheesing bronze players (6-pools, cannon rushes) and was demoted to #13 Bronze even though my win/loss was about 60/40 in Silver. Dunno why I was demoted, but Bronze is really easy and I've already beaten a bunch of Silvers, a couple Golds and even one Platinum player! I'll try to post some replays so I know what I'm doing wrong. Also, I found some posts on Reddit about his macro only Protoss play using only Stalkers: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/f7e8j/seriously_guys_if_youre_in_platinum_or_below_your/ http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/f7qw9/followup_to_macrostomping_with_mass_stalkers_more/ Might be of interest to some. Anyway, I'll be doing this build at least until I'm out of Bronze, probably even farther into SIlver and Gold. After that, I want to try and get good at Protoss and Zerg. Cheers! | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Give hints on how to GET BETTER AT MACRO You start off talking about how this build lets you focus on macro. Yet, your followup is ONLY a build order with timely expansions and NO EXPLANATION whatsoever on how to focus on macro. I must say this thread fails to deliver because you merely present a build order that is friendly to only TERRANS who aren't to the level to begin micro practice. You don't explain macro, talk about where you attention is at in this build, and a myriad of other things. Bad form, Taerix. You may have started with the best of intentions but you [G] Guide result is far from the macro-focused product that TeamLiquid goers would expect! | ||
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Mormel
Netherlands57 Posts
On March 14 2012 16:29 Danglars wrote: It would help you to link to threads that actually Give hints on how to GET BETTER AT MACRO You start off talking about how this build lets you focus on macro. Yet, your followup is ONLY a build order with timely expansions and NO EXPLANATION whatsoever on how to focus on macro. I must say this thread fails to deliver because you merely present a build order that is friendly to only TERRANS who aren't to the level to begin micro practice. You don't explain macro, talk about where you attention is at in this build, and a myriad of other things. Bad form, Taerix. You may have started with the best of intentions but you [G] Guide result is far from the macro-focused product that TeamLiquid goers would expect! This guide isn't for 'normal' TL goers afaik. | ||
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Druss
France22 Posts
Anyway it could be very hard to win even with this, if your opponent is terran and making siege tanks : you will sacrifice every 5min your army for nothing :-D When you got a lot of ressources around 15min, you could have say something like "add 2 Engineering Bays, and search passive infantery upgrades". it is not very hard to do, and you can still be focused by your scv-expand-barracks-units macro. | ||
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the_fixxer
Sweden30 Posts
Thank you Taerix for this wonderful, wonderful guide. Cheers to you=) | ||
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ShakaZu.Sc2
United States131 Posts
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
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