EPT[G] Guide for low level Terrans. 3 Rax. - Page 5
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courtpanda
866 Posts
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Garth
United States353 Posts
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
Double reactor should give you enough marines to kill void rays. Watch it, try it, if you still have problems - post replay here. Against zergs try to attack earlier - go with stim timing, dont wait for concussive and expand earlier. As always, if there are lots of defenses - dont attack into that - the zerg is low on drones, you should be at least even. It's gonna take much better than gold zerg to build just enough defenses and under\overcommit. Attach replays guys, you cant just talk theory all the time. Show me what exactly happened. Especially at your level, I'm pretty sure you make lots of mistakes and you lose because you didnt have enough stuff. So far I have only seen one replay where the build actually failed, but then again the enemy was pretty damn good, leagues above the 3 rax guy. | ||
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Glaucoma
Taiwan13 Posts
I'm a silver league newb having just entered my first season of my first online RTS. I practiced your version of the 3 Rax against the computer for a week. This week I have begun using it on the ladder, playing 3 games a day. Under ladder pressure I can't get 7 maruaders/13 marines by 7:30. But I hope to continue to improve my mechanics, until I can do so consistently. I have gone from Silver #100 to Silver #35 in a week (thanks largely to bonus pool points). Thanks so much for giving me a detailed model to follow. Alas, I'm still a newb, so I can't make a transition to the mid-game. In fact, I lose every midgame. Could you provide or link to a blueprint for transitioning from the 3-Rax opening to the midgame. Knowing I should go marine-tank-medivac just isn't enough. ps, Your video is very good for people like me. Even though it is 40 minutes long, it felt very short. I highly recommend it to lower level players. | ||
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
On January 04 2012 10:11 Khazidhea wrote: After the combat shields are done you can float rax and get reactor on it and build a new factory on the now vacant techlab. So you'd have 3 reactored rax, reactored starport and 2 factories and ebays ... actually that sounds like too much production for 2 base, but I dont have anything exact figured out and I guess you'll be fine anyway. Cant really give you exact benchmarks. Depends on the matchup, the specific game situation, too many variables, sorry. As a general rule I would say add 3 production facilities for each new expo, dont forget upgrades, dont forget to build scvs and produce army and this should be enough to keep your money low. Again, throwing in some random numbers. Good time for 2nd push is when you have 3 tanks with siege mode, a bunch of marines with stim\combat shields and 1\1 upgrades. 3rd push when you are maxed. One more random tip: in TvZ put up 1 turret in each mineral line at 10 minute mark against mutas. | ||
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COLDbear
United States39 Posts
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
I've played a bunch of games using it in silver league, and it loses to pretty much anything the other guy does. I've lost to mass marine pushes off multiple raxes before my own 2 reactor raxes get going, any attempt to storm their ramp even when they don't have siegemode yet ends in failure. And if I don't try to storm their ramp, I would have been better off just going for a marine tank build. Whereas atleast with the Protoss and Zerg games I win when they don't respond very well. This is basically a timing push, but Terrans don't seem to have any particular vulnerability to exploit the way Protoss and Zerg do. I suppose my question is, how does this build play out in TvT when it "works"? I just can't see myself breaking a one base Terran(and they are ALL one basing) with this build when they've got the defenders advantage. | ||
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djtopa
United Kingdom59 Posts
I always go banshee (without cloak) fast expo. I scout with the depot building SCV in TvT but if it's cross poss or I'm not lucky my scout can get denied by a walloff (rax+2 depots). Now I have no idea what's in his base. Do I have to use a scan ? In order to scan this I have to use the 2nd scan which is i think not ideal because it can't reveal cloaked banshee. TvT you use your 3rd scan normally. I've attached a replay. Here i faced cross position and a wallin. I know that if I built a bunker at the top of the ramp I would have held this. During his push he makes micro mistakes but still he's able to beat me. Can someone help and analyze my replay and tell me how can I beat this in an efficient way. TvT 3rax loss Replay | ||
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
Actually, scratch that. Djtopa the build you lost to is a marine-scv allin, no gas - be more specific please  Btw his execution was god awful. Now if I were going for banshee I would probably build a bunker. Get a hellion from factory before techlab - it would help and you still have enough time to build techlab for the swap. If you controlled the watchtower you might have seen it coming.In addition, you played that engagement totally wrong. You saw the amount of scvs he brought with him? He had only 3 scvs at his base. That means if you fight with your scvs and defend with more than 3 scvs alive you are ahead. You had option to open the depos and fight head on - but I dont think it is the best one and I am not even sure if you have enough to kill his army. Moreover if he it was a good marine-scv allin and not this strange variation you would never have enough. In my opinion let scvs repair the wall (your scvs bunched up and did nothing), build a bit further behind (you kinda did it) and dont let your marines die. Dance marines back and forth, put the hurt ones in the back. Finally, I think it is a good idea to pull workers from gas and put the on minerals. Monkeyballs. That's a funny name :D Please next time give me a replay. Now, you dont neccesarily win with you first push. Sometimes you can, sometimes you cant. Contain, delay his expo and continue playing your macro game. You cant break it before they have siege mode? You are microing wrong then, if they went for tanks and you hit before siege you should usually win. I played today - first time in agess. Used a silver league account, got promoted to gold and was playing some diamond guys by the end of my ladder run. Was only 3 raxing and I think I lost only one game where I miss-microed and lost all marines to banelings. I made a bunch of replays and kinda figured a way I like to transition. Gonna update OP with this. Transition: So for marine tank transition (TvT, TvZ) you want start combat shields immediately after concussive. Build a factory and 2nd gas. When shields are done, give techlab to factory and start tanks. Build a rector on that rax. Get starport and double ebays. 3 rax with reactors, factory with techlab, starport with reactory and 2 ebays. Never stop making scvs. For TvP get combat shields, factory, put reactor on factory and get starport, swap them. 2 more rax, 2 ebays. 3 rax with techlabs, 2 rax with reactors, starport with reactor, 2 ebays. And again, never stop making those scvs. More replays: My god it's hard to post replays. Drop.sc is good, but I hate that it renames replays >_< Anyway ... the first push rarely wins the game in gold+, but the build should get you ahead. Here we go: TvT: 3 rax vs gas first hellion Here I pressure with marauders from the start because I know he is gonna low on units (he's going gas first, I can see that because his barracks are later than mine and his factory is uber fast). 3 rax vs banshee 3 rax vs FE 3 rax vs 1-1-1 marine tank I cant break the ramp so I contain him and get ahead. 3 rax vs reaper FE 3 rax vs banshee I think banshee builds are very good vs 3 rax. Funny game with me running around from banshee for a long time and somewhat of a base race in the end. 3 rax vs reactor marine FE I tried to run around the bunkers to harass. Then sniped the tank. Not the best decision. TvZ: TvZ vs 15 hatch on Taldarim He defends with A LOT of spine crawlers and lings. Notice how I am AHEAD on workers at this point in time. Late game he gets lots of mutas so I get thors. Rage\qq in the end. 3 rax vs 15 hatch ling\bane Notice how I try to hide what I am doing. Catching zerg out of guard. After killing natural, dont walk up the ramp and lose all your army. Expand, play macro, kill later with 100% guarantee. 3 rax vs 15 hatch with mid game bling bust 3 rax vs 15 hatch on Shattered Good zerg. Somewhat tough game. I'd say here 3 rax put me behind, zerg was droning like crazy after my first push (which is right thing to do). Won thanks to drops sniping tech buildings all the time. TvP: 3 rax vs immortal push I think protoss tried immortal bust, I am not really sure what he tried to do. 3 rax vs 4 gate One more diamond level 4 gate. I like the way he sneaks in his 4th gate, but the way he tried to put up offensive pylons so early made me cautious. But eventually I just had more army than him. 3 rax vs 1 gate FE Protoss gets fast HTs and storm. 3 rax vs 3 gate expo I think this game I killed his expo, he didnt have enought units to hold. 3 rax vs 1 gate FE antiga I think in that game I baited a lot of forcefields, walked in and killed him. 3 rax vs 2 gate + forge Interesting idea to get cannons for FE. But it's wasted resources, he cant be aggressive after that - he has less units. | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
Edit : Watched the rest of the TvT games. The only time this particular build seems to offer an advantage was against the early hellion guy and the 1rax FE guy. In all the other games it just put you behind until you switched to marine/tank/viking. Also I noticed you were generally ahead on SCVs. Is that just your superior macro or is 3rax just more economical compared to the mostly 1base tech stuff they were doing? | ||
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
You must train yourself to never stop making scvs (well until you start losing games when you had too much scvs and it is like a 100 scs). So yeah you can say I was ahead because my macro is better. Also earlier expo = more scvs. So I am ahead of those who tech on 1 base. Those who FE, I dont know, seems like they shit their pants when attack comes and miss stop scv production. After that it's 2 base vs 2 base and we are at least even. | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
Do you have any particular way of knowing when you've got enough marines and tanks to push out with? | ||
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MartyK2500
Canada2 Posts
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
I think 3 tanks is good number to push with. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=246676 | ||
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LION`
Sweden19 Posts
I'm having problem to win when I can't finnish them off with my first push. I don't know how to transition properly. I always do my second CC around 8 min mark before I push out. But I'm too far behind the opponent when I can't do any damage with my first push and then I just go back and do some factories but I can't seem to transition into tanks/medivacs before my opponents push is coming. Mostly protossplayers, deathball just fucks me over. I have yet to start with drops, maybe thats my answer? And darktemplars? How the hell do I counter them? God I know its a noob-question but I get a good push and a single DT is destryoing my bio-army. Lost 2 times to it yesterday. The only way I know is turrets and scans, but I didn't have any scans. | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
Here's some replays of my TvPs. http://drop.sc/92240 Think he went 3gate robo. My push stopped him expanding before me, it went to lategame but I had vikings to deal with his colossi. Edit : Even though he did a good 4 zealot prism drop on my workers, I still stayed ahead economically, and just killed him with a big MMviking ball as he tried to take this third. I had a massive supply lead. http://drop.sc/92239 Sort of contained him on the ramp, he never got a big enough army to take on my MM force. And I was able to outmacro since he couldn't expand and I could. http://drop.sc/92238 He early expanded and had nothing to stop my attack, really quick game. Edit : He actually went nexus first, and I ended up moving out at 6:40 or so, stim finishing just as I arrived. http://drop.sc/92237 Same thing. He early expanded and I hit him when he had not many units. Edit : I think I was late getting gas, so I built 2 extra rax instead of building 2 reactors, and built marines instead of marauders. My army left the base at 7:20 but I ended up waiting for reinforcements and attacked at 8:20. Luckily he had way too many sentries and no good FFs. http://drop.sc/92241 I think this was a 4gate, just a very bad one. http://drop.sc/92242 This was a loss, and a good example of what not to do. Instead of trying to contain him on one base I kept suiciding my army on his ramp. And I never really caught up after that. Edit : And even then, I stopped him expanding for a good bit. But threw the advantage away by not expanding on time myself, falling behind on SCV production, and letting him take the gold base unopposed. Could probably still have won otherwise. | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
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BabeSlayer
United States13 Posts
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