EPT[G] Guide for low level Terrans. 3 Rax. - Page 2
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
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DSNOVA
2 Posts
I found this post earlier today and decided to give the strategy a try. I watched most of your YouTube video and watched two of your vods and decided to just try it on ladder. So far I am 2-6 (win/loss) with it and am quite frustrated. I don't really know what I'm doing wrong so I uploaded a replay of my latest loss hoping you guys could give me some advice. http://www.mediafire.com/?mk3ehi3vmbmu8ak <-- Link to VoD. I'm the blue terran Florp in the replay. Thanks! | ||
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
- You cut scv production when adding 2 additional barracks. Dont do that, constant scvs, wait a little bit more and then add those barracks. - A couple more hiccups in scv production. - Floating buildings to make reactors. Build these barracks so you would have space for addons immediately. - Minor supply block. All these are little things, but if you add them all up you have a 20 sec delay and then boom you opponent does not have stim to defend. But whatever, you are new to this build. When you attack you have 7 marauders, 19 marines, 28 scvs and you have CC. You are ahead. What you did wrong during the engagement on your opponent's ramp: - You focus fired the buildings - supply depot and reactor. Dont do that! You make all of your guys die for a cost of a supply depo! Think about it ... you deliberately let the supply depo tank all the damage you made. What you should do instead: just let your guys shoot the bad guys over the wall. One more tip, slightly advanced. If you watch the replay you can see half of your units bunch up at the bottom of the ramp and dont shoot until units in front die and they take their place. Move them to the side so they can shoot from the low ground. - You dont reinforce your army well. Tap the barracks hotkey to check are you producing or not. - You pretty much dont build any scvs during the attack. Same as above. - You overextend a bit. Once you saw you cant break it after the first or maybe the second wave, rally to your natural and macro. As a result, your resources got up to 700 minerals, 300 gas. Keep your money low! Get combat shields, get factory, 2nd gas, more rax, ebays! After you expanded and right before the drop. You are high on minerals and low on gas. Get the gas on your natural ASAP. Now lets compare you and your opponent at this point. 93 food vs 71 food. He has more tech, you have expo. You have 6 marauders, 34 marines, 1 tank and 38 scvs vs 3 marauders, 20 marines, 3 siege tanks and 4 medivacs. His weakness here is that he unloads in your base and units unload one by one, meaning you can kill them before they can even shoot! Again you reacted to the drop somewhat poorly. Good work on focus firing tanks before the sieged. Next time try to use only your marauders to focus tanks. Pull your scvs to fight, man! If you did this you hod the attack easily. And you would still have more scvs and you would produce them faster. Last, make yourself to make good arcs in engagements, because again half of your units didnt fight here. Simplest solution in that situation was to lift up the CC, so your units can run under it. But I would even do that, just pull small packs of units and surround the enemy, you have way more and he is unloading his units 1 by 1. The build worked, you were ahead all the time. You only need to work on your mechanics and that is the point of the build  Hope it helps. | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
On January 03 2012 13:11 NoisyNinja wrote: This was the first build I learned and it got me to silver...Then it stopped working. But still, props to the OP. I think it is a little outdated because bronze-gold players have gotten better. Replay or it didn't happen. 3 rax works even in masters, as other people have said. If you can execute this crisply on some dude in silver and have him hold it, i will give you several million esports dollars. And that random silver dude a progaming contract. Neither of which I actually have to give. | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
Marauders tank damage in TvZ, kill roaches, kill spines. If you pull the scvs I believe it would pretty deadly vs zerg. I think Kas used to do something like this in the early days. One of the games was up on day9 daily, where he killed the hatch but then 1 baneling hatched and killed like all the marines and scvs. After that it was an interesting game because both players suffered huge losses. Won't be too effective vs 1 base toss - you wont break the ramp and he can probably tech to colosus which would very problematic to deal with. Any game with protoss FE and ramp on natural would be hard, depends on forcefields, how you bait forcefields, etc. 2 techlab variations vs void rays? You dont have enough marines to kill the void rays, but again - micro dependent. The advantage of 2 techlabs is combat shields, but I'd rather have just more marines. In TvT marauders kill bunkers and tanks. Hell, there are tons of pure bio builds in TvT. With stim (and concussive) marauders can kit marines all day before they get stim. When morrow played Terran he had a 5 marauders with stim timing. And again, they absorb damage. If enemy marines focus marauders your marines will kill them faster. | ||
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DSNOVA
2 Posts
On January 03 2012 13:06 Khazidhea wrote: + Show Spoiler + Mistakes in the execution of the build: - You cut scv production when adding 2 additional barracks. Dont do that, constant scvs, wait a little bit more and then add those barracks. - A couple more hiccups in scv production. - Floating buildings to make reactors. Build these barracks so you would have space for addons immediately. - Minor supply block. All these are little things, but if you add them all up you have a 20 sec delay and then boom you opponent does not have stim to defend. But whatever, you are new to this build. When you attack you have 7 marauders, 19 marines, 28 scvs and you have CC. You are ahead. What you did wrong during the engagement on your opponent's ramp: - You focus fired the buildings - supply depot and reactor. Dont do that! You make all of your guys die for a cost of a supply depo! Think about it ... you deliberately let the supply depo tank all the damage you made. What you should do instead: just let your guys shoot the bad guys over the wall. One more tip, slightly advanced. If you watch the replay you can see half of your units bunch up at the bottom of the ramp and dont shoot until units in front die and they take their place. Move them to the side so they can shoot from the low ground. - You dont reinforce your army well. Tap the barracks hotkey to check are you producing or not. - You pretty much dont build any scvs during the attack. Same as above. - You overextend a bit. Once you saw you cant break it after the first or maybe the second wave, rally to your natural and macro. As a result, your resources got up to 700 minerals, 300 gas. Keep your money low! Get combat shields, get factory, 2nd gas, more rax, ebays! After you expanded and right before the drop. You are high on minerals and low on gas. Get the gas on your natural ASAP. Now lets compare you and your opponent at this point. 93 food vs 71 food. He has more tech, you have expo. You have 6 marauders, 34 marines, 1 tank and 38 scvs vs 3 marauders, 20 marines, 3 siege tanks and 4 medivacs. Again you reacted to the drop somewhat poorly. Good work on focus firing tanks before the sieged. Next time try to use only your marauders to focus tanks. Pull your scvs to fight, man! If you did this you hod the attack easily. And you would still have more scvs and you would produce them faster. Last, make yourself to make good arcs in engagements, because again half of your units didnt fight here. Simplest solution in that situation was to lift up the CC, so your units can run under it. But I would even do that, just pull small packs of units and surround the enemy, you have way more and he is unloading his units 1 by 1. The build worked, you were ahead all the time. You only need to work on your mechanics and that is the point of the build Hope it helps.This helps a ton! Will report back with results after 3 games. So I've played 2 games (both TvP) and have had very good results. I am still making little mistakes (but as you said, they add up) but I still won both games pretty hard. I wish I could play more but I must get some sleep. Thanks a lot man, seriously. Oh! One more question. If I'm trying to break a protoss' ramp and he has 2 cannons there, should I focus his stalkers/zealots or his cannons first? Thank you, again. | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
On January 03 2012 13:21 Belisarius wrote: Replay or it didn't happen. 3 rax works even in masters, as other people have said. If you can execute this crisply on some dude in silver and have him hold it, i will give you several million esports dollars. And that random silver dude a progaming contract. Neither of which I actually have to give. Umm....I can't get a replay mainly because I was promoted to silver (from bronze) over a year ago. Since then, I haven't used it because it stopped working. I'm platinum now and fast expand every game and hold 3 raxes with 1 or 2 bunkers. | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On January 03 2012 13:50 Khazidhea wrote: I wont do that build in higher leagues. But if I had to, that's what I think: Marauders tank damage in TvZ, kill roaches, kill spines. If you pull the scvs I believe it would pretty deadly vs zerg. I think Kas used to do something like this in the early days. One of the games was up on day9 daily, where he killed the hatch but then 1 baneling hatched and killed like all the marines and scvs. After that it was an interesting game because both players suffered huge losses. Won't be too effective vs 1 base toss - you wont break the ramp and he can probably tech to colosus which would very problematic to deal with. Any game with protoss FE and ramp on natural would be hard, depends on forcefields, how you bait forcefields, etc. 2 techlab variations vs void rays? You dont have enough marines to kill the void rays, but again - micro dependent. The advantage of 2 techlabs is combat shields, but I'd rather have just more marines. In TvT marauders kill bunkers and tanks. Hell, there are tons of pure bio builds in TvT. With stim (and concussive) marauders can kit marines all day before they get stim. When morrow played Terran he had a 5 marauders with stim timing. And again, they absorb damage. If enemy marines focus marauders your marines will kill them faster. In TvP, Toss FE's a very high percentage of the time. And when they don't, they oftentimes go for void rays. 3-rax is autoloss vs Collosi all-in and is generally a loss vs robo tech before expo, but is very effective against everything else. So, the times when you have to play vs 1 base toss is very small. With 2 techlab variations, you do have enough marines vs void rays, as long as you make sure to constantly make marines out of the reactored rax (that means cutting maruder production if you have to) if you scout 2 gas. With 2 techlabs, you don't get combat shields. You just can't afford it to make it finish as stimpack finishes. Instead, you get conc shells on your second tl, you should just have enough resourcees to afford it 50 secs before stimpack to complete (conc shells takes 50 secs). Also, if you execute the 3-rax well (never show your full army size, make it look like maruder expand), you will almost always be able to just stim up into the natural before the FF's block off the natural, even on Shakurus because no one can react that fast if they aren't preparing to. I've beaten many grandmaster tosses who are much better than me by perfecting the 3-rax, and it for sure is a viable strat in any league in TvP. I can give you some replays vs high masters if you want | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
On January 03 2012 13:16 Khazidhea wrote: NoisyNinja, thanks, but believe it is still the work and it is the best thing that you can do. Because it is the easiest! Look at how many mistakes you can do just in first 10 minutes of the game. Are you ABSOLUTELY sure you did EVERYTHING right? Post the replay where you lost despite doing everything right I am sure I am doing everything right. I have perfected the build to about Masters level macro and micro (platinum level now). This is the only build I have mastered so far, but most opponents at my level are able to stop it. | ||
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
kofman, replays are always welcome, man Hiding this kind of allin would be a requirement on a higher level, but I dont feel like ever relying on someone not being fast enough to forcefield. Hm getting the concussive would allow for a faster timing, makes sense. But in a brute fight vs toss I would pick the 2 reactor variation, marines just kill stuff so much faster and protoss favor sentry zealot over stalkers these days, so I dont need that much marauders. And I just used to die when doing 2 Rax pressure vs VoidRays because I did not have enough marines and it always felt so stupid, when you have more workers, expo, killed everything on the ground but just cant shoot up and these things are fully charged and just instantly melt anything that pops out of barracks. In the end of the day I guess boils down to personal preference NoisyNinja, well then you cant really comment "it doesnt work in silver" on what was over a year ago, can you? You cant say that you did everything right a year ago, when timings were different, like stim was faster; and you cant say you had masters level macro and micro because (no offense) the master league did not exist back then and you are not in master league even now. You most likely did some other variation of the 3 rax and had small mistakes in your play - and that is why it did not work. You improved since then and now you are in plat. You tried 3 rax in plat and it does not seem to work. Again you probably didnt try exactly my variation and timings. But even if you did and it failed I am fine with it. Because I went as far as to say that once you hit plat you'd better switch to builds all the cool kids use these days. P.S. My English sucks, sorry >_< Hope I mad my point clear and did not offend anyone. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
On January 03 2012 14:03 NoisyNinja wrote: I am sure I am doing everything right. I have perfected the build to about Masters level macro and micro (platinum level now). This is the only build I have mastered so far, but most opponents at my level are able to stop it. That's an entirely different thing to saying it stopped working in silver. You've almost certainly become better. If you went back to silver as you can now, I very much doubt they'd be able to hold it. I also call bull on "masters level macro and micro." You can't define that. Again, replay or it didn't happen. Plus, even in plat this should be winning games fairly often; plat players aren't so good. Trust me, I'm well versed in playing badly at sub-masters. The point is that this certainly works above silver. To the OP, just curious, what league are you yourself? It's nice to see someone paying so much attention to their thread, as well. | ||
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Khazidhea
Kazakhstan65 Posts
I just had this thing: I wanna make a good starcraft guide for beginners before the New Year. I am afraid I cant keep up this thread alive for much longer =\ because I have final year exams next week and I have to study hard. I would appreciate if you guys would do that for me :D | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On January 03 2012 14:15 Khazidhea wrote: kofman, replays are always welcome, man Hiding this kind of allin would be a requirement on a higher level, but I dont feel like ever relying on someone not being fast enough to forcefield. Hm getting the concussive would allow for a faster timing, makes sense. But in a brute fight vs toss I would pick the 2 reactor variation, marines just kill stuff so much faster and protoss favor sentry zealot over stalkers these days, so I dont need that much marauders. And I just used to die when doing 2 Rax pressure vs VoidRays because I did not have enough marines and it always felt so stupid, when you have more workers, expo, killed everything on the ground but just cant shoot up and these things are fully charged and just instantly melt anything that pops out of barracks. In the end of the day I guess boils down to personal preference P.S. My English sucks, sorry >_< Hope I mad my point clear and did not offend anyone. http://drop.sc/83095 http://drop.sc/83093 http://drop.sc/83092 These are all of me doing the 2 tech 1 reactor build. However, I think you're build is much better than 2 tech 1 reactor in TvT and TvZ, cause you get a lot more marines and also have shields. And btw, your English is perfectly fine. you seem like a perfectly normal speaker to me... | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On January 03 2012 02:28 iAmJeffReY wrote: Why do retards say this? I bet I could go on bnet right now at mid high masters and 3 rax 3 games in a row and win 1--2 easily, even if I drew a zerg. It's just hard to transition out of, and you are behind on your expo. Quite a solid guide though, on a short run through it. Just skipped through the video a few steps, it actually isn't bad. Yeah...if your opponent is solid, you're pretty much dead in the water... | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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Tiotion
Australia9 Posts
So i got home and tried out your style of 3 rax and i have to say to looks much stronger than mine (mind you, it was kinda random...i knew i wanted 3 rax, 2 tech 1 react but timings always changed). With your vid its much more streamlined. Also, after playing 5 or so games against the comp, its funny to see how my benchmarks always vary, even though i think i'm doing it better than the last time. So thanks for including those too. I haven't tried this out on ladder yet, as i want more practice, but would you mind posting some TvT replays? In particular, ones where T wall off? As i mentioned earlier, i got rolled by a drop when my army was retreating from an intial push that was blocked by a wall. When my army got back to clean it up I was so far behind that I died soon after. I would like to see how you handle TvT with this BO. And yeah, your English is really, really good too. | ||
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hyperknight
294 Posts
I was looking at a lot of terran guide, but this is brilliant. Please do a few other builds as well to help us fellow newbs out. Trying to ladder sc2 is just such a daunting task, I feel like i really have to practice and prepare before playing sc2. This will gimme the much needed boost. thanks again =D | ||
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