EPT[G] *New* [TvP] Yen's 7-2-2 Build - Page 3
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On January 02 2012 06:50 sksyen wrote: If you scout 15 nex it should be gg. sit tight and macro. what | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
On January 02 2012 02:07 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote: With the early CC and tech straight into port, you wouldn't have enough marines to defend any well executed all-in, and your tanks will be very late. Edit: Basically you will get killed by 4-Gate, 3-Gate Void, 3-Gate Blink, or maybe even a strong 3-Gate pressure. 4 gate on 1 gas you can hold I think, but you should lose to anything else. However after looking the replays and comparing them with a standard bio FE this looks like an extremely strong 2 base all in and it also looks like an auto-win against any 2 base all in protoss does. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On January 02 2012 06:50 sksyen wrote: If you scout 15 nex it should be gg. sit tight and macro. Macro against the most macro oriented build a P can do, and auto win? Um sure. Whatever dude. I personally just marine scvs all in every single 15 nexus i see. Works amazingly in diamond, and in GSL wtc from what ive seen. Only on huuge maps is 15 nexus viable. And i veto taldrim. | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
Also damn you for making a double 1-1-1  | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
On January 02 2012 07:18 Squigly wrote: Macro against the most macro oriented build a P can do, and auto win? Um sure. Whatever dude. I personally just marine scvs all in every single 15 nexus i see. Works amazingly in diamond, and in GSL wtc from what ive seen. Only on huuge maps is 15 nexus viable. And i veto taldrim. ? You do realize he's the one that posted the build and the one that's currently in GM right? Oh nvm, I'm sure whatever works in diamond applies here too. 15 nexus is viable on many ladder and tourney maps, some med sized, wouldn't call shak or antiga huuge... Thanks for the guide, used to watch your stream after release and then you seemed to go inactive for a while =(, I was happy to see you playing again and now this guide too  Seems pretty similar to a 2 base tech timing that PuMa and Beastyqt use I'll be sure to check this out. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On January 02 2012 07:36 Badfatpanda wrote: ? You do realize he's the one that posted the build and the one that's currently in GM right? Oh nvm, I'm sure whatever works in diamond applies here too. 15 nexus is viable on many ladder and tourney maps, some med sized, wouldn't call shak or antiga huuge... Thanks for the guide, used to watch your stream after release and then you seemed to go inactive for a while =(, I was happy to see you playing again and now this guide too Seems pretty similar to a 2 base tech timing that PuMa and Beastyqt use I'll be sure to check this out.Wow first off, no need to be hostile. Secondly get off your high horse. Also i dont think 15 nexus is not viable on most ladder maps that i know off (and dont veto). Try 15 nexusing on antiga and tell me how it goes. | ||
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sksyen
United States359 Posts
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
On January 02 2012 07:53 sksyen wrote: That pretty much sums it up Squigly. Idea behind this build was to create a variation of puma's 1-1-1 but off 2 base instead. If you micro/m acro correctly, a toss that 15 FE shouldnt be able to hold it. I have had trouble against phoenix openings, but it can be held off if you react accordingly. I also build CC in the open to try to induce toss into taking his nat , no point in hiding the CC. Yes this build can be hard countered by 1 b all ins but for people that play tournies and end up in a bo3/bo5+ scenario, its good to have a build like this in your arsenal. Agreed, however I don't believe this hardcounters a 15 nexus, there is no reason to suggest it does. It hits way after the eco off a 15 nexus already has kicked in. But if he 15 nexus and you scout it early enough instead of throwing down a CC you can just throw down 4 extra rax and win that way. They will have 1 stalker when you arrive at their base and you can just kill the pylons powering the gateways. Never lost a game that way ^^ | ||
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Geiko
France2058 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
Afaik 1 gate expo or nexus before gate was the best response to 111, so I'm a bit confused... About 15 nexus, so what you mean is that basically this wins any build that macros against it(assuming good micro from both)? + Show Spoiler + Guess this is the reason I've been seeing this/similar builds allover the place from pros TvP... | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
I have to say im dubious on that. however great guide, i look forward to using. | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
On January 02 2012 07:47 Squigly wrote: Wow first off, no need to be hostile. Secondly get off your high horse. Also i dont think 15 nexus is not viable on most ladder maps that i know off (and dont veto). Try 15 nexusing on antiga and tell me how it goes. There's no need for you to be demeaning to the OP either, wtf is this: "Um sure. Whatever dude." I regularly nexus first on Antiga, especially the MLG version with forced cross, and in fact I've seen it used PvT in the GSL last season, AND in the up and downs. It's very hard to punish as you'll generally not scout it until a point at which you're faced with the decision to either cancel your cc and build 3 rax or keep on par with him in a macro game. At which point any allin attempt will be delayed enough for the Protoss to have 1 more round of units and will defend if he micros half decently. I don't understand where you're coming from and I don't understand how you fail to see the condescension in your first post lol | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On January 02 2012 08:07 Geiko wrote: You're basically saying that your build autowins against anything that isn't one base agression ? I'm having trouble understanding this too. I don't see how it auto wins against a macro build after the expo kicks in. You would expect the issues to come right as the nexus goes down, not 10 minutes later :/ | ||
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Grebliv
Iceland800 Posts
On January 02 2012 09:16 ZeromuS wrote: I'm having trouble understanding this too. I don't see how it auto wins against a macro build after the expo kicks in. You would expect the issues to come right as the nexus goes down, not 10 minutes later :/ I'm pretty sure the point is that it isn't behind and will infact beat most 15 nexus follow-ups that aren't ready for the timing push since this build cuts a lot more corners than those and hence be stronger when the push timing rolls around. It pays for this by just dying to anything 1base. That this will auto win against any 15 nex I've got a really hard time believing and on top of that it'd take massive amounts of testing to prove. You may on the other hand have to cut some corners as well to defend it even after a successful 15 nex just like this build cuts corners. It's like the invincible 1-1-1 that suddenly turned out to not be invincible (and no immortal range being increased by 1 doesn't kill a build, it just doesn't punish worse positioning as much.) | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
Basically the whole build is designed to build a very large army at a point in time where protoss are usually spending a lot of money on upgrades and economy and thus cannot defend adequately. And unlike a regular terran army this cannot be deflected by the use of forcefields. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
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13JackaL
United States577 Posts
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
We all felt the same way about 1-1-1 at a certain point (I actually still do. nobody beats my 1-1-1 on ladder, i mean NOBODY, and that comes from more hours of 1-1-1'ing than I care to admit) | ||
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hersenen
Belize176 Posts
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