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On August 24 2012 10:52 supers wrote:
Can someone recommend me a PvP build that can counter the Colossus race that seems to happen in every PvP game I play? It's always who can get the most colossus.
I assume you're getting to two+ bases for this so just go double robo. Or if you're feeling fancy go carriers. I hate the colossus race that pvp becomes as well so i force it to end before expoes goes up.
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On August 24 2012 10:52 supers wrote:
Can someone recommend me a PvP build that can counter the Colossus race that seems to happen in every PvP game I play? It's always who can get the most colossus.
Well I'm assuming by build you are referring to army composition to deal with the colossus centric army; if so, you can do immortal/void ray/chargelot during the midgame but you will have to transition. The only transition into late game with this style is to go for an air centric army with zealots or immortals to deal with stalkers.
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On August 24 2012 12:15 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:52 supers wrote:
Can someone recommend me a PvP build that can counter the Colossus race that seems to happen in every PvP game I play? It's always who can get the most colossus. Well I'm assuming by build you are referring to army composition to deal with the colossus centric army; if so, you can do immortal/void ray/chargelot during the midgame but you will have to transition. The only transition into late game with this style is to go for an air centric army with zealots or immortals to deal with stalkers.
Seems really fun. Do you have any BO, opening or maybe a replay of this vs colo? 
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I don't have the replay of it sorry....last time I did this was like a month before mlg Anaheim...but the opening I did is 3 stalker expo 2sentry...I expo if I don't see signs of a fast warpgate push and this opening is weak against 4g phoenix allin imo. Anyways from there, depending on my game sense and knowledge I make an obs or immo and grab gases at nat....generally if they expo or not doing 4g blink, you should go obs first
Once you scout him going Colo, get stargate and constantly make immo and void rays and warp zealots from there...getting a third is tricky imo...I usually grab it when I see them grab a third...once you have a third you add on more tech and archons to this comp...by tech I mean fleet beacon for mothership....carriers are good when mixed with immo and zealots
Engagement is really tricky as well because they will rely more on their ff and stalkers to deal with your army...so don't get your units separated by ff and target fire voids on Colo then stalkers...for immmo just target stalkers...zealots do whatever they want...the sentries you have will be used for gs mainly
If you really want to piss off some protoss you can add dts since your air units will target obs pretty easily...they just have to watch/micro their obs
Sorry for the way I posted this...looks messy but doing this on the phone :/
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Hey guys, Platinum Protoss here trying to get over my fear of macro games in PvP and PvZ.
PvP I really like the 1 Colossus 4 gate timing attack, it works pretty damn consistently but I know I won't improve as a player with it. I did try to do the 2 gate Robo expand, like Axslav does, but I find myself rolling over and dying to any 3 gate immortal timing almost 100% of the time. Which is why I stopped doing it. Is there any better alternative? Or could someone tell me exactly how I'm supposed to defend heavy attacks before I can get more infrastructure in place?
PvZ, by FAR my worst matchup since release, I have an almost irrational fear of zerg, either from ling or muta counter attacks which leave me reeling, scrambling and running around like a headless chicken or massive roach armies just pummeling and brute forcing me into GG. And I don't think it's even worth stating the dreaded Zerg Deathball off of 5 bases. This has led me into 2 base timings (surprise!) which more often than not just barely don't work. Part of it is that I'm a much more macro focused player than a timing oriented one, so moving from my heavy macro PvT, and the odd chance I get to macro PvP is also fun, to forcing myself into timings leave me feeling extremely uncomfortable.
By the way, my general PvZ is something along of FFE, into 1 Void Ray to deny Ovies, Watchtowers and some very light harass, into 6 gates with blink and 3 colo timing. But I also always hesitate to actually commit into a fight before all my army is together and have a pylon nearby which lets the Zerg get up defenses....
Also, I'm terribly sorry I can't post replays at the moment, my computer is at the service center at the moment due to some HDD problems...
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Need help with terran. I've been having a lot of trouble lately with terran doing the 1 base 7:30 hellion drop into banshees into CC into 2 base play, its really annoying to deal with all the harrass and some tips would be great. Where do I possition my OBS, do i get more than 2. Any other suggestions ?
http://drop.sc/243155
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Italy12248 Posts
Always get three observers vs bansheees because cloak is that scary, send the first one across the map and then keep one per mineral line. If necessary, use the first obs to defend the first banshee and send the second across the map to scout, but if he opens hellion drop his cloak should be delayed enough that your second obs will be in time.
Regarding defending the hellions, you just need stalkers in position. If all your stuff is at your nat and you find out there's hellions in your main you are pretty much dead. I usually warp in my first set of 3stalkers in my main base, while keeping 2 stalkers 1 zealot and 1 sentry at my nat in case he's attacking me with marines or tries a hellion runby in the main.
If you have any more trouble against hellions, trying playing safer and going 3gate into robo rather than 1gate/robo/3gate, like in MC's variation of 1gate fe (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136). You will have a lot more units when the hellions hit, and you should still have observers in time for cloak etc.
Losing 6 or so probes to hellions is acceptable, if you lose less you are ahead and if you lose more you are behind. Losing more than 10 is basically game breaking as a 1base allin followup will be extremely hard to stop.
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Hey, what's the proper reaction to early mass marine play from a Terran? I've seen quite a bit of 1 rax FE play into 4 or 5 rax pressure, with some SCVs pulled. Next time I see it, i'll post a replay, but any general tips?
i'm master
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I didn't want to bump the old "PvX Safe Builds" thread, but I was wondering if that was still current? I'm way, way out of practice (was plat, but haven't laddered in over a year) and want one solid build per matchup to learn.
PvZ I'm fine with FFE into 5 or 6 gates and a robo.
PvT -- 1 gate FE into...? or some sort of 2 gate robo expand? Not sure.
PvP -- even less sure here. 3 stalker into robo play? 1 gate robo from the anti-4 gate thread?
Thanks in advance.
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@Iranon: What you listed are still solid builds, for the most part.
Personally, I go for 1gate FE into 3gate Robo for PvT, usually teching to colossus. A cool little trick to do to put on early pressure is to build a zealot instead of core first (chronoed), then drop core, then another zealot, WG, and stalker. Rallying the first zealot to his natural can do a lot of damage, especially if you focus the SCV building bunker.
For PvP I think going for 1 base 3gate robo is the safest thing to do, as it gives you options for ultimately anything they can throw at you. I like to go for quick DT's + expand into chargelot archon timing. Ideally you get DT's by 7:30 opening with 2gate, 3 stalkers. Of course, if you scout a 4gate or some pressure you will need sentries and delay DT tech. Sometimes DT's are auto-win, like if they go 4gate and you hold it off, or if they go stargate play and not have detection.
Most of the time you'll get your DT's killed, but you'll have an expo, the threat of DT counter attacks, a twilight council for charge, and templars for archons. Pushing around 11 minutes, while they can have at most 2 colossus, is really effective since zealots can get right under them (and archons can break FF's).
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On August 18 2012 19:09 Teoita wrote:
Phoenix builds are indeed quite weak to a zealot/archon 2base timing; your best best bet is to walloff your natural with gateways and stall off until you get colossus tech up.
ok I thank you for this answer , my pvp is really good now, but something that I dont know how to react to is phoenix if i go phoenix, what usually happens is that I come to theyr base with 2-3 phoenixes and he has one more because of defence and then kills me because phoenixes cant escape from phoenixes and the rest of the game I am in a odd position , usually get picked apart.
As said I use the liquid hero build (2gate + stargate + robo) so I dont have as much phoenixes as the opponent because they usually dont go for the robo. Pls tell me the best way to react against phoenix when I go phoenix
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Italy12248 Posts
On August 26 2012 04:44 aValanos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 19:09 Teoita wrote:
Phoenix builds are indeed quite weak to a zealot/archon 2base timing; your best best bet is to walloff your natural with gateways and stall off until you get colossus tech up. ok I thank you for this answer , my pvp is really good now, but something that I dont know how to react to is phoenix if i go phoenix, what usually happens is that I come to theyr base with 2-3 phoenixes and he has one more because of defence and then kills me because phoenixes cant escape from phoenixes and the rest of the game I am in a odd position , usually get picked apart. As said I use the liquid hero build (2gate + stargate + robo) so I dont have as much phoenixes as the opponent because they usually dont go for the robo. Pls tell me the best way to react against phoenix when I go phoenix
Keep making phoenixes, whoever has more wins. Expand when you can. Make sure your phoenixes don't get "tagged" by his, as in within shooting distance while you are trying to move away from them. If that happens, all yours will be shot down and you will die.
That said i only know what to do in theory, i've only played phoenix mirrors like twice in my life.
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I have been playing masters occasionally and most of the time, I have trouble against the T master players.
When I scout gas, I kind of panic in my mind. Sometimes, it turns out ok, and other times it doesn't. Anyway, if I scout 1 gas. What is the proper response? I am trying to get a little bit more strict on what to do if I want to get promoted.
Also, what is the correct way to do a PvT 1 gas expand? I never know when to add the 2 other gateways or even the robo for that matter. I add them at reasonable time but I want to again, have stricter builds.
Thank you
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On August 26 2012 06:18 O INSANE O wrote:
I have been playing masters occasionally and most of the time, I have trouble against the T master players.
When I scout gas, I kind of panic in my mind. Sometimes, it turns out ok, and other times it doesn't. Anyway, if I scout 1 gas. What is the proper response? I am trying to get a little bit more strict on what to do if I want to get promoted.
Also, what is the correct way to do a PvT 1 gas expand? I never know when to add the 2 other gateways or even the robo for that matter. I add them at reasonable time but I want to again, have stricter builds.
Thank you
When you scout gas with your probe try to get out, then scout back up the Terran's ramp at about 3:40. If he has no addon on the rax it means he's teching up to hellion drop/marine drop or banshee's if he's got an addon prepare for a 2 rax or 1 rax marauder expand. then follow the MC's 1 gate FE..http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136
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Italy12248 Posts
On August 26 2012 06:18 O INSANE O wrote:
I have been playing masters occasionally and most of the time, I have trouble against the T master players.
When I scout gas, I kind of panic in my mind. Sometimes, it turns out ok, and other times it doesn't. Anyway, if I scout 1 gas. What is the proper response? I am trying to get a little bit more strict on what to do if I want to get promoted.
Also, what is the correct way to do a PvT 1 gas expand? I never know when to add the 2 other gateways or even the robo for that matter. I add them at reasonable time but I want to again, have stricter builds.
Thank you
This build is safe vs any gas openings from terran:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136
If you want a more middle of the road build that you can do vs both gas and no gas openings, learn this 1gate fe instead:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319339
In general, MC's opening is amazing. What i personally do in Master if i confirm 1rax fe is cut units after 1zealot/1stalker, get a nexus up around 27 nexus plus a sentry, then go gas->2gates->robo when i can afford them while constantly chronoing probes and cutting units; i warp in 2 more sentries as my first set of units and then i tech to whatever.
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Would someone mind giving me some feedback on my pvz? I feel really weak in my pvz's lately and would love some comments from someone who feel confident in this match up!
(I'm plat with plat/dia mmr)
Game #1 - http://drop.sc/243311 (Cloud Kingdom)
--- Standard FFE with a zealot push off of 4 gates. Manages to kill off most of his lings but I overcommit when I warp in a second round of zealots. However I felt that I forced a lot of units so maybe it was worth it? After that it's a standard macro game but I lose somehow. At the 21 min mark I kill off his main army, his nat hatch and takes down his greater spire to 46hp (DAMN YOU TRANSFUSE!). At this point I thought I had won but he transformed his corruptors into brood lords and I didn't have the economy to replace my army and tapped out.
Q: Should I have put down a stargate (for a mamaship)? Should I have put more focus on the greater spire? Should I have killed off the queens first to prevent transfuses?
Game #2 - http://drop.sc/243316 (Entombed Valley)
--- Standard FFE with a block on his third. He takes a weird third and I shut it down totally with two cannons so he doesn't get his real third up and running until 9:45 which should put me in a perfect spot but I make a stupid mistake and run my stalker/immortal force right into his mass ling (w/ some muta support) and I think I lost the game there
Q: What would have been the optimal choice instead of attacking? I saw that he was taking a fourth and wanted to attack before the fourth hatch kicked in.
Game #3 - http://drop.sc/243317 (Daybreak)
--- FFE as always. The thing is that this game felt REALLY weird and I don't know why. At 7:30 I start to float minerals and have no idea where to spend it. I'm putting down gateways (I have 5 in total), going for upgrades but those minerals just keep raising.
Q: What was I missing in my general plan here? Earlier gateways? Constant unit production pre-warp gate?
Game #4 - http://drop.sc/243440 (Ohana)
--- Nexus first and I manage to block his hatch pretty good i think. I go up to 4 gates and put som pressure on but fails. Follow up with some blink stalkers and manages to trade pretty well. We go into the late game and trade pretty even in every fight but in the end he wins by pure macro.
Q: I feel so confused by PvZ engagements. I manage to kill his brood lords again and again but never manages to do any real damage. Should I have implemented more drops into my play? Could I have engaged him better?
Any feedback is highly appreciated. I am working hard trying to improve at this game. Started playing this as my first RTS in January and I'm feeling like I've stopped to improve so I would love som pointers on what to improve
Thanks!
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Looking at possibly switching races (or at least picking up another one for some spice of life in the next season). I'm looking for good, solid, detailed guides that are up to snuff for the current meta-game, one for each race matchup. Anyone have some favorite that they would be willing to link so that I can study up before getting slaughtered? They're are just so many guides out there and as Zerg by trade I can't separate the wheat from the chaff. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any and all help.
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Italy12248 Posts
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On August 26 2012 04:52 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 04:44 aValanos wrote:On August 18 2012 19:09 Teoita wrote:
Phoenix builds are indeed quite weak to a zealot/archon 2base timing; your best best bet is to walloff your natural with gateways and stall off until you get colossus tech up. ok I thank you for this answer , my pvp is really good now, but something that I dont know how to react to is phoenix if i go phoenix, what usually happens is that I come to theyr base with 2-3 phoenixes and he has one more because of defence and then kills me because phoenixes cant escape from phoenixes and the rest of the game I am in a odd position , usually get picked apart. As said I use the liquid hero build (2gate + stargate + robo) so I dont have as much phoenixes as the opponent because they usually dont go for the robo. Pls tell me the best way to react against phoenix when I go phoenix Keep making phoenixes, whoever has more wins. Expand when you can. Make sure your phoenixes don't get "tagged" by his, as in within shooting distance while you are trying to move away from them. If that happens, all yours will be shot down and you will die. That said i only know what to do in theory, i've only played phoenix mirrors like twice in my life.
So I am basiccly just dead when I loose the phoenixes?
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Italy12248 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:03 aValanos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 04:52 Teoita wrote:On August 26 2012 04:44 aValanos wrote:On August 18 2012 19:09 Teoita wrote:
Phoenix builds are indeed quite weak to a zealot/archon 2base timing; your best best bet is to walloff your natural with gateways and stall off until you get colossus tech up. ok I thank you for this answer , my pvp is really good now, but something that I dont know how to react to is phoenix if i go phoenix, what usually happens is that I come to theyr base with 2-3 phoenixes and he has one more because of defence and then kills me because phoenixes cant escape from phoenixes and the rest of the game I am in a odd position , usually get picked apart. As said I use the liquid hero build (2gate + stargate + robo) so I dont have as much phoenixes as the opponent because they usually dont go for the robo. Pls tell me the best way to react against phoenix when I go phoenix Keep making phoenixes, whoever has more wins. Expand when you can. Make sure your phoenixes don't get "tagged" by his, as in within shooting distance while you are trying to move away from them. If that happens, all yours will be shot down and you will die. That said i only know what to do in theory, i've only played phoenix mirrors like twice in my life. So I am basiccly just dead when I loose the phoenixes?
If you lose them all and he has however many left, yes. I mean, it's x phoenixes and a bunch of unupgraded gateway units vs just as many unupgraded gateway units.
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EPT
