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In late game PvT, I'm having issues dealing with the Mass Ghost/Viking+MMM.
I'm not sure what the ideal comp is and how to deal with the engagement part.
I usually go 4 colossus/4hts/8 stalkers and the rest is chargelot/archon and 1 sentry for GS. That's the comp I usually go for when dealing with this army. I have 4 hts back at my base generating energy as well.
The engagement part is a big issue. I've tried multiple ways and still not successful with any of them. One way is where I position my blink stalkers where I see the vikings coming from and attack with colo/chargelot/archon. Wait for the emps and then send my 4hts behind my army to storm the units. But I end up losing my entire army when my storm connects so I don't have zealots dealing the extra damage as well with the storm. Another way is sending my hts in the front to try to feedback any forward ghosts or storm bio units but it's pretty unsuccessful against good Terrans.
I'm wondering if I should just incorporate some phoenixes (4 or 5) with upgraded range to deal with vikings a bit more now. I feel like it heavily depends more on the colo staying alive than my HTs. Yes the upgrade and investment is pretty steep but I get to the point where economy isn't really the issue. Or is there a better way of dealing with this comp?
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On August 22 2012 02:09 .kv wrote:
In late game PvT, I'm having issues dealing with the Mass Ghost/Viking+MMM.
I'm not sure what the ideal comp is and how to deal with the engagement part.
I usually go 4 colossus/4hts/8 stalkers and the rest is chargelot/archon and 1 sentry for GS. That's the comp I usually go for when dealing with this army. I have 4 hts back at my base generating energy as well.
The engagement part is a big issue. I've tried multiple ways and still not successful with any of them. One way is where I position my blink stalkers where I see the vikings coming from and attack with colo/chargelot/archon. Wait for the emps and then send my 4hts behind my army to storm the units. But I end up losing my entire army when my storm connects so I don't have zealots dealing the extra damage as well with the storm. Another way is sending my hts in the front to try to feedback any forward ghosts or storm bio units but it's pretty unsuccessful against good Terrans.
I'm wondering if I should just incorporate some phoenixes (4 or 5) with upgraded range to deal with vikings a bit more now. I feel like it heavily depends more on the colo staying alive than my HTs. Yes the upgrade and investment is pretty steep but I get to the point where economy isn't really the issue. Or is there a better way of dealing with this comp?
Have you tried transitioning into carriers with boosted air upgrades? If you make a handful of Phoenixes, the ghosts and vikings will just pick them off in an engagement. But if they have carriers behind them, you have a more balanced air force that has long range dps as well as insane close range dps.
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Could anyone give an overview of the Startale PvT? Like what units to warp/what timings on buildings upgrades to aim for? I've been trying to find some recent replays/VODs but the Terrans often to weird things that throw the build off.
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Italy12246 Posts
1gate expand, 3gate, robo, fast forge and twilight council (7 or so minutes), go up to 5 and then 7 gates and get a templar archives as soon as the twilight council is done; get charge at around 10 minutes and storm around 11-12 after defending the medivac timing with your first 1-2 archons. Take a third when he backs off from his initial pressure.
A good replay to study is parting vs virus on Cloud Kingdom from the IPL4 replay pack.
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Hi, lowish diamond here.
PvP is not fun. I heard Artosis talking about a colossus 4gate allin when he was casting the IEM or something (VOD is on day9's blip page), and he said that it was the norm in Korean pvp for quite a while. Does anyone have a replay of a pro doing this build, or a VOD?
Thanks.
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On August 22 2012 02:09 .kv wrote:
In late game PvT, I'm having issues dealing with the Mass Ghost/Viking+MMM.
I'm not sure what the ideal comp is and how to deal with the engagement part.
I usually go 4 colossus/4hts/8 stalkers and the rest is chargelot/archon and 1 sentry for GS. That's the comp I usually go for when dealing with this army. I have 4 hts back at my base generating energy as well.
The engagement part is a big issue. I've tried multiple ways and still not successful with any of them. One way is where I position my blink stalkers where I see the vikings coming from and attack with colo/chargelot/archon. Wait for the emps and then send my 4hts behind my army to storm the units. But I end up losing my entire army when my storm connects so I don't have zealots dealing the extra damage as well with the storm. Another way is sending my hts in the front to try to feedback any forward ghosts or storm bio units but it's pretty unsuccessful against good Terrans.
I'm wondering if I should just incorporate some phoenixes (4 or 5) with upgraded range to deal with vikings a bit more now. I feel like it heavily depends more on the colo staying alive than my HTs. Yes the upgrade and investment is pretty steep but I get to the point where economy isn't really the issue. Or is there a better way of dealing with this comp? Observer(s) watching the Ghosts from a distance and sending in lone HT's to feedback multiple Ghosts works well since there's a 53% chance of the HT getting a feedback off before even one snipe goes off. You do have to watch out for Marauders, though.
Don't get Archons unless you kill a lot of his Ghosts. Archons are almost 100% shields, and Ghosts just spam EMP's and laugh at them.
DT harassment in the Terran's main while you engage with your main army is hell to deal with for the Terran, since even a few DT's can be shift-queued on the addons forcing him to defend in two places extremely well or die.
I could be wrong, but this is what I had trouble with when I played late-game TvP.
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On August 22 2012 11:53 Fencar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:09 .kv wrote:
In late game PvT, I'm having issues dealing with the Mass Ghost/Viking+MMM.
I'm not sure what the ideal comp is and how to deal with the engagement part.
I usually go 4 colossus/4hts/8 stalkers and the rest is chargelot/archon and 1 sentry for GS. That's the comp I usually go for when dealing with this army. I have 4 hts back at my base generating energy as well.
The engagement part is a big issue. I've tried multiple ways and still not successful with any of them. One way is where I position my blink stalkers where I see the vikings coming from and attack with colo/chargelot/archon. Wait for the emps and then send my 4hts behind my army to storm the units. But I end up losing my entire army when my storm connects so I don't have zealots dealing the extra damage as well with the storm. Another way is sending my hts in the front to try to feedback any forward ghosts or storm bio units but it's pretty unsuccessful against good Terrans.
I'm wondering if I should just incorporate some phoenixes (4 or 5) with upgraded range to deal with vikings a bit more now. I feel like it heavily depends more on the colo staying alive than my HTs. Yes the upgrade and investment is pretty steep but I get to the point where economy isn't really the issue. Or is there a better way of dealing with this comp? Observer(s) watching the Ghosts from a distance and sending in lone HT's to feedback multiple Ghosts works well since there's a 53% chance of the HT getting a feedback off before even one snipe goes off. You do have to watch out for Marauders, though. Don't get Archons unless you kill a lot of his Ghosts. Archons are almost 100% shields, and Ghosts just spam EMP's and laugh at them. DT harassment in the Terran's main while you engage with your main army is hell to deal with for the Terran, since even a few DT's can be shift-queued on the addons forcing him to defend in two places extremely well or die. I could be wrong, but this is what I had trouble with when I played late-game TvP.
Thanks
umm the lone HT's...I do try to do this but he keeps scanning his army and sniping my observer so it's quite difficult to pull this off.
The archons...that is true, I might as well not make archons unless my HTs get all emp'd and become useless I suppose
The DT harassment...I do incorporate 2 speed prisms in my late game PvT all the time but sensor tower and turret rings just hard to budge through for me I suppose...If I do happen to get them in I usually target reactors on starports first then tech labs on rax.
However, when I play a Terran that plays nearly flawless on defending my harass and sniping my observers throughout the game, I find it extremely difficult to deal with his army
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On August 22 2012 05:14 Teoita wrote:
1gate expand, 3gate, robo, fast forge and twilight council (7 or so minutes), go up to 5 and then 7 gates and get a templar archives as soon as the twilight council is done; get charge at around 10 minutes and storm around 11-12 after defending the medivac timing with your first 1-2 archons. Take a third when he backs off from his initial pressure.
A good replay to study is parting vs virus on Cloud Kingdom from the IPL4 replay pack.
Thanks a lot. I found the replay you mentioned, and I was wondering why Parting gets +1 attack before +2 armor. It would seem like the benefit from armor is much higher with the compositions you get with this build.
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Italy12246 Posts
I don't really know, the one thing i can think of is that since +1 attack researches faster it can help a bit more in defending his third.
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I got proxie raxed but they were late, what would be the best response to this guys ?
master level here
http://drop.sc/242153
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On August 22 2012 11:57 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 11:53 Fencar wrote:On August 22 2012 02:09 .kv wrote:
In late game PvT, I'm having issues dealing with the Mass Ghost/Viking+MMM.
I'm not sure what the ideal comp is and how to deal with the engagement part.
I usually go 4 colossus/4hts/8 stalkers and the rest is chargelot/archon and 1 sentry for GS. That's the comp I usually go for when dealing with this army. I have 4 hts back at my base generating energy as well.
The engagement part is a big issue. I've tried multiple ways and still not successful with any of them. One way is where I position my blink stalkers where I see the vikings coming from and attack with colo/chargelot/archon. Wait for the emps and then send my 4hts behind my army to storm the units. But I end up losing my entire army when my storm connects so I don't have zealots dealing the extra damage as well with the storm. Another way is sending my hts in the front to try to feedback any forward ghosts or storm bio units but it's pretty unsuccessful against good Terrans.
I'm wondering if I should just incorporate some phoenixes (4 or 5) with upgraded range to deal with vikings a bit more now. I feel like it heavily depends more on the colo staying alive than my HTs. Yes the upgrade and investment is pretty steep but I get to the point where economy isn't really the issue. Or is there a better way of dealing with this comp? Observer(s) watching the Ghosts from a distance and sending in lone HT's to feedback multiple Ghosts works well since there's a 53% chance of the HT getting a feedback off before even one snipe goes off. You do have to watch out for Marauders, though. Don't get Archons unless you kill a lot of his Ghosts. Archons are almost 100% shields, and Ghosts just spam EMP's and laugh at them. DT harassment in the Terran's main while you engage with your main army is hell to deal with for the Terran, since even a few DT's can be shift-queued on the addons forcing him to defend in two places extremely well or die. I could be wrong, but this is what I had trouble with when I played late-game TvP. Thanks umm the lone HT's...I do try to do this but he keeps scanning his army and sniping my observer so it's quite difficult to pull this off. The archons...that is true, I might as well not make archons unless my HTs get all emp'd and become useless I suppose The DT harassment...I do incorporate 2 speed prisms in my late game PvT all the time but sensor tower and turret rings just hard to budge through for me I suppose...If I do happen to get them in I usually target reactors on starports first then tech labs on rax. However, when I play a Terran that plays nearly flawless on defending my harass and sniping my observers throughout the game, I find it extremely difficult to deal with his army Spreading out your observers on the edge and microing them to stay there works pretty well since the Terran will have to go far out of his way to attack, and you can setup a concave so if he tries to engage you will crush him.
Dropping two DT's instead of staying there and warping in works okay if there's only one turret in range --you can drop and get out without taking much if any hull damage--, and if he has full turret rings plus sensor towers you can just morph any useless DT's into Archons and call it even. It takes a lot of minerals to make enough missile turrets to cover all the not-PF'd bases, and they're what Terran needs the most in the late-game.
Again, I could be wrong.
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How can I fight a spinecrawler - broodlord - infestor - corruptor army (with zergling switches to destroy my stalkers.) in PvZ lategame?
Carriers do not work, Void Rays do not work, Blink stalkers do not work (even at 3/3/3). Archon toilets are bad because infestors can just spam tons of infested terrans and spines are not affected by it.
Top plat player here.
+ Show Spoiler +Maybe tempest'll fix this in mop
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Italy12246 Posts
On August 23 2012 08:30 nurman3 wrote:How can I fight a spinecrawler - broodlord - infestor - corruptor army (with zergling switches to destroy my stalkers.) in PvZ lategame? Carriers do not work, Void Rays do not work, Blink stalkers do not work (even at 3/3/3). Archon toilets are bad because infestors can just spam tons of infested terrans and spines are not affected by it. Top plat player here. + Show Spoiler +Maybe tempest'll fix this in mop
Adding a few carriers to siege the Broodlords and kill the spines at that point is your best bet. The reason carriers work better than void rays is that they suck less against fungal; just make sure to have templar, archons and stalkers to protect them from corruptors.
That said, if zerg is attacking you with his deathball and you haven't taken down a good deal of his economy and tech with harassment you are in a pretty sucky spot regardless.
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1) What is the timing for the banshee and cloack?
6:00 banshee spawn
6:30 attacking probes
7:00 cloack
correct?
2) What is the timing of the hellion drop?
3) If terran goes 1base for a while and i suspect banshee/drops play what is the best answer? (i go 1gate expo sase/naniwa, 2 more gates, check expo 6:00min)
4) In PvP what is the normal timing for blink?
I go 3 stalker rush, then drop twilight and 3d gate. Blink is done at around 8 i would say.
5) Is there any other build that i can use in PvP (besides the 4gate) that prevents me from going into collossus wars and still being safe vs 4gate?
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On August 23 2012 08:30 nurman3 wrote:How can I fight a spinecrawler - broodlord - infestor - corruptor army (with zergling switches to destroy my stalkers.) in PvZ lategame? Carriers do not work, Void Rays do not work, Blink stalkers do not work (even at 3/3/3). Archon toilets are bad because infestors can just spam tons of infested terrans and spines are not affected by it. Top plat player here. + Show Spoiler +Maybe tempest'll fix this in mop
Carriers work awesome.
Just don't do a BW style pure carrier.
They are very nice unit, but they really need archos to make them superawsome.
Essentialy you want stalker/archon/templar/coloss/carrier/MS + some sentry (for gs) and zealots to tank.
IMO 4 carriers is good, 5-6 is exellent.
You shouldn't get carrier out of 3 base.
And don't underestimate power of vortex.
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On August 22 2012 11:57 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 11:53 Fencar wrote:On August 22 2012 02:09 .kv wrote:
In late game PvT, I'm having issues dealing with the Mass Ghost/Viking+MMM.
I'm not sure what the ideal comp is and how to deal with the engagement part.
I usually go 4 colossus/4hts/8 stalkers and the rest is chargelot/archon and 1 sentry for GS. That's the comp I usually go for when dealing with this army. I have 4 hts back at my base generating energy as well.
The engagement part is a big issue. I've tried multiple ways and still not successful with any of them. One way is where I position my blink stalkers where I see the vikings coming from and attack with colo/chargelot/archon. Wait for the emps and then send my 4hts behind my army to storm the units. But I end up losing my entire army when my storm connects so I don't have zealots dealing the extra damage as well with the storm. Another way is sending my hts in the front to try to feedback any forward ghosts or storm bio units but it's pretty unsuccessful against good Terrans.
I'm wondering if I should just incorporate some phoenixes (4 or 5) with upgraded range to deal with vikings a bit more now. I feel like it heavily depends more on the colo staying alive than my HTs. Yes the upgrade and investment is pretty steep but I get to the point where economy isn't really the issue. Or is there a better way of dealing with this comp? Observer(s) watching the Ghosts from a distance and sending in lone HT's to feedback multiple Ghosts works well since there's a 53% chance of the HT getting a feedback off before even one snipe goes off. You do have to watch out for Marauders, though. Don't get Archons unless you kill a lot of his Ghosts. Archons are almost 100% shields, and Ghosts just spam EMP's and laugh at them. DT harassment in the Terran's main while you engage with your main army is hell to deal with for the Terran, since even a few DT's can be shift-queued on the addons forcing him to defend in two places extremely well or die. I could be wrong, but this is what I had trouble with when I played late-game TvP. Thanks umm the lone HT's...I do try to do this but he keeps scanning his army and sniping my observer so it's quite difficult to pull this off. The archons...that is true, I might as well not make archons unless my HTs get all emp'd and become useless I suppose The DT harassment...I do incorporate 2 speed prisms in my late game PvT all the time but sensor tower and turret rings just hard to budge through for me I suppose...If I do happen to get them in I usually target reactors on starports first then tech labs on rax. However, when I play a Terran that plays nearly flawless on defending my harass and sniping my observers throughout the game, I find it extremely difficult to deal with his army
Your obs should be constantly moving around the perimeters of his vision. It's APM intensive but it keeps it alive. You probably won't be able to see where his ghosts are, but you'll know where his army is, which is most important. Feedbacking ghosts vs an attentive Terran is extremely difficult. I've had more success being active with blink stalkers.
You don't have to avoid making archons. HT's with no energy are just as dead and useless, are more difficult to keep from clumping, and are much smaller requiring less EMP's to hit a big ball of them. If you can't keep them perfectly spread, you might as well should mix archons, which are easier to disperse among your zealots and forces him to EMP single archons instead of all of your zealots -- even if he has more than enough energy, he can't do it all instantaneously.
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1) In PvZ when Zerg goes two base muta what is the best way to deal with them?
I go for a twilight for blink, robo and upgrades but i am still being contained pretty much. I thought about getting storm. Is it a viable counter to still not sit on my ass for 12 min of the game?
2) Also getting stargate instead of robo early on seems like a good idea. Getting 3 voidrays intead of immortals and 1 phoenix to scout and safely take early third while putting pressure on Zerg. Has any1 any experiance with such idea?
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On August 24 2012 08:06 imagran wrote:
1) In PvZ when Zerg goes two base muta what is the best way to deal with them?
I go for a twilight for blink, robo and upgrades but i am still being contained pretty much. I thought about getting storm. Is it a viable counter to still not sit on my ass for 12 min of the game?
2) Also getting stargate instead of robo early on seems like a good idea. Getting 3 voidrays intead of immortals and 1 phoenix to scout and safely take early third while putting pressure on Zerg. Has any1 any experiance with such idea?
1) You generally want to get your third as fast as possible because once mutas are out on the map it becomes extremely difficult to get one. Next is blink/cannon. You want build cannons at your most vulnerable bases (usually that's your main and third). You want around 4 cannons each. Now if you feel the cannons are late and mutas will appear, you need 6 stalkers or so around cannons being built o buy time. Once they are up you can position the stalkers closer to your army. Next step is making observers to patrol around your base to see incoming mutas. Now generally good zergs will snipe them with the help of an overseer. So next step is to get storm and use warp prism to delay. You just want him to be away from you. Now either you win a big engagement or you have storm, that's when you can expand. Now I forgot to add this but you want to constantly scout when and if is tech switching. Now that is just another topic to discuss and this is getting pretty difficult to do on my phone.
2) I never was a fan of 3 voids...its a big commitment that you need to do damage and/or Colo to get a third. A simple roach/mass ling counter to your third will be nearly impossible without Colo is what I'm getting at. The pressure won't last that long as well because they can hold with queen and spores...but this only my opinion on it.
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Can someone tell me how exactly to play out a 3 pylon ramp block cannon rush in PvZ?
What are the options for Zerg and how greedy should I get? What are the things I should watch out for and when would be a good time to kill him?
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Can someone recommend me a PvP build that can counter the Colossus race that seems to happen in every PvP game I play? It's always who can get the most colossus.
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EPT
