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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
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ok so my pvt is really bad atm, this is probably my win ratues:
70% protoss
75% zerg
25% terran
I try to macro everygame and dont know what I do wrong. Pls help me, here is a replay of the build that I use everytime.
http://drop.sc/243551
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This might be general but I figured I'd ask here since I'm playing Protoss. I'm in bronze and I've realized that vast majority of bronze players I face try to all in in some way early on. I have an extremely hard time with this unless I try to cheese in some way myself( DT Rush). I realize that doing that doesn't help me improve since I never see any mid/late game. What should I be trying to do, in terms of builds and whatnot.
What should I look for to know if it's safe to expand?
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On August 27 2012 06:30 dattemplar wrote:
This might be general but I figured I'd ask here since I'm playing Protoss. I'm in bronze and I've realized that vast majority of bronze players I face try to all in in some way early on. I have an extremely hard time with this unless I try to cheese in some way myself( DT Rush). I realize that doing that doesn't help me improve since I never see any mid/late game. What should I be trying to do, in terms of builds and whatnot.
What should I look for to know if it's safe to expand?
Coming from another fairly new player, I was able to do very well in bronze PvP by doing a 3 stalker rush then doing something similar to a PvZ kind of sentry-immortal composition. A lot of people, especially aggressive ones, won't make many units but stalkers until they get colossi in bronze, at least from my experience, so you can pretty much just focus on macro and then a-move once your observer sees their twilight council or robotics bay finishes because without blink or colossi they can't do much. I'm not very good though, so you could probably just do any 3 gate expand build once you've made sure they haven't put any pylons in your base. Even if you have less units than they do, on defense you can usually always win engagements as long as there's no proxy pylon and you make sure to engage at a ramp or choke.
If you can though try to focus on not getting supply blocked/constant unit production at all times, because you'll end up behind all game.
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On August 27 2012 06:30 dattemplar wrote:
This might be general but I figured I'd ask here since I'm playing Protoss. I'm in bronze and I've realized that vast majority of bronze players I face try to all in in some way early on. I have an extremely hard time with this unless I try to cheese in some way myself( DT Rush). I realize that doing that doesn't help me improve since I never see any mid/late game. What should I be trying to do, in terms of builds and whatnot.
What should I look for to know if it's safe to expand?
Safe Openings can really help you out here, Such as PVP 3 stalker rush then 2 sentries and a robo, you can expand and hold most aggression, maybe not 1 base colossus/4gate phoenix.
As for what to look for is just keep hold of all watch towers or keep a probe in front of their natural ramp/path if they kill it you know you have aggression and should prepare. Though most of the time it's BO losses when it comes to losing to All-ins.
PvZ scout pool timing and Gas to know if aggression is coming,
PvT Gas before rax= Factory, Rax then Gas normally 2-3 rax pressure or 1-1-1
PvP chrono boost pooling (though in Bronze I don't know how well of a read this is.) Number of gates
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I cant seem to find a build order for a PvP blink obs build,
Anyone help me out?
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I need a macro benchmark: If I do everything perfectly and my opponent doesn't bother me, when should I expect to have the following if I open with a safe 1 gate FE (with Nexus at 30 supply):
- 3 bases
- 70 probes
- 200/200 supply made up of probes, gateway units, and 4/5 colossi.
- 1/1 upgrades and charge for my zealots.
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On August 27 2012 06:30 dattemplar wrote:
This might be general but I figured I'd ask here since I'm playing Protoss. I'm in bronze and I've realized that vast majority of bronze players I face try to all in in some way early on. I have an extremely hard time with this unless I try to cheese in some way myself( DT Rush). I realize that doing that doesn't help me improve since I never see any mid/late game. What should I be trying to do, in terms of builds and whatnot.
What should I look for to know if it's safe to expand?
I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but I wouldn't even try to expand if I was bronze. Despite all the talk about the importance of macro, I think that you're better off learning how to micro (and not mess up your build at the same time) with a good one base all in. Since you're not a Terran, the very first thing you need to learn is how to defend against the variety of cheeses, all ins, and early pressure builds that will outright kill you if you're not careful: Canon rushes, proxy barracks, 10 pools, marine tank all ins, two port banshees all ins, roach ling, etc etc etc. There's no point in expanding, even with a safe build, if you're going to die to these things despite your defender's advantage.
So my suggestion is to do a 3 gate robo all in. Leave your base when you have 2 or 3 immortals and an observer on the way. It's a good and safe build against most things.
That said, if you really really want to expand safely, for PvT use the 2 gate one gas FE build:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Gate_FE_(vs._Terran)
For PvZ of course use FFE:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Forge_Fast_Expansion_(vs._Zerg)
With decent micro (and if you know your opponent's coming a bit in advance), you have a good chance of surviving against most cheeses and all ins with those builds. For example, if you do the 2 gate FE you can have a stalker and 2 zealots when your opponent's marines and SCVs arrive if he does the fastest possible 3 racks all in, and with those units plus your probes you can survive.
And for PvP, um, just don't expand. 
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Germany442 Posts
I'm looking for recent, high-level replays/vods (replays would be great!) demonstrating a standard 2 base immortal all-in vs Zerg (for a Liquipedia article). I've been looking for a bit and while I found a couple examples, not all of them were really good examples to learn from. So if somebody could point me to a couple, that'd be great.
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and tips on proper way to defend marine scv all in if you do a standard expo, or even a six rax
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On August 28 2012 04:12 Grouch wrote:
and tips on proper way to defend marine scv all in if you do a standard expo, or even a six rax
Go back to your main with everything you have and forcefield the ramp with sentries, you will have a better eco than him
If you are good enough you can also attack the marines and scvs with your stalkers from his main to your base, that will significantly reduce his army
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Italy12248 Posts
On August 28 2012 06:27 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 04:12 Grouch wrote:
and tips on proper way to defend marine scv all in if you do a standard expo, or even a six rax Go back to your main with everything you have and forcefield the ramp with sentries, you will have a better eco than him If you are good enough you can also attack the marines and scvs with your stalkers from his main to your base, that will significantly reduce his army
It's impossible to get enough sentries in time to constnatly ff your ramp vs most fast allins (2-3 rax), in that case it's better to wall off your ramp with gateways/pylon and let your stalkers pick off as many units as possible before he breaks up.
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On August 27 2012 12:46 AnonymousEmu wrote:
I cant seem to find a build order for a PvP blink obs build,
Anyone help me out?
Hi, couldn't find the link to the build that I used to use but I have it written down. It is Naniwa's Blink Obs:
9 Pylon
13 Gate
14 Gas
16 Pylon
17 Cyber
18 Zealot
20 Gas
22 Stalker
24 WG (CBx3)
25 Pylon
27 Stalker (CB)
*** Cut Probes
28 x2 Gates
28 Sentry
31 Twilight Council
32 Pylon
33 Robo
And some notes I took down:
*** Usually scout after Cyber
*** Maybe temp. cut probes 30-40supply to produce more stalkers
*** Blink & obs should finish when you have 7-8 stalkers
*** If you're Building Collosi > play passively and harass with blink, if archons > play agro > deny 3rd
*** Use build on maps where you can blink into main with ease
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On August 27 2012 06:30 dattemplar wrote:
This might be general but I figured I'd ask here since I'm playing Protoss. I'm in bronze and I've realized that vast majority of bronze players I face try to all in in some way early on. I have an extremely hard time with this unless I try to cheese in some way myself( DT Rush). I realize that doing that doesn't help me improve since I never see any mid/late game. What should I be trying to do, in terms of builds and whatnot.
What should I look for to know if it's safe to expand?
I don't think you can get much safer than going 2 Gate-Robo expand in PvT or you can try 3 Gate expand as well. Old school Gate expands may also be useful vs Zerg (2 - 3 Gate and expand with a Zealot or two and some Sentries. Get down a Forge at your natural, and a cannon and you should be safe. 6 - 8 pools should be held easily with a Gate expand if you 9 scout). In PvP either 4 Gate, or play safe by going 2 or 3 Gates, a Robo and then expand.
Apollo had a good series on laddering up from Bronze to Diamond playing Protoss. He mainly used Gate based builds and played safe in every match-up. Look for the vids on Youtube. As to holding a 6 pool with a Gate expand, look (again on Youtube) for MC vs Idra on Xel Naga Caverns from a game in 2011, I think. You should 4 Gate from there for the win.
Good luck.
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On August 12 2011 05:32 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 05:23 leino wrote:
Hey!
Started recently with sc, focussing hard on my macro right now as I should be.
Anyways my question: As a starting protoss player, which should be the goto build(s) I should learn first? As a beginning player, you should learn the safest builds you can. The following builds may not be the best, but they are fairly easy to execute and guarantee a mid game if you execute them well. PvT: 2 gate robo (gate robo gate) PvZ: 3 gate expand PvP: Geiko's defensive 3 gate If you learn these builds, you'll get more practice with mid/late game and actually learn the matchups. As you get more comfortable, you can experiment with more advanced builds.
Hey guys, very new SC2 player here. I've been able to dig out most everything I need elsewhere but I just wanted to clarify if this is still solid advice a year on from when it was posted? If not, what other builds do you recommend? Thanks.
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Italy12248 Posts
Yes. Generally listen to anything NrGmonk posts on these forums he knows his shit.
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On August 28 2012 21:14 badstrat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 05:32 NrGmonk wrote:On August 12 2011 05:23 leino wrote:
Hey!
Started recently with sc, focussing hard on my macro right now as I should be.
Anyways my question: As a starting protoss player, which should be the goto build(s) I should learn first? As a beginning player, you should learn the safest builds you can. The following builds may not be the best, but they are fairly easy to execute and guarantee a mid game if you execute them well. PvT: 2 gate robo (gate robo gate) PvZ: 3 gate expand PvP: Geiko's defensive 3 gate If you learn these builds, you'll get more practice with mid/late game and actually learn the matchups. As you get more comfortable, you can experiment with more advanced builds. Hey guys, very new SC2 player here. I've been able to dig out most everything I need elsewhere but I just wanted to clarify if this is still solid advice a year on from when it was posted? If not, what other builds do you recommend? Thanks.
On August 28 2012 21:18 Teoita wrote:
Yes. Generally listen to anything NrGmonk posts on these forums he knows his shit.
Pretty much this.^
And also you should get familiar with the Protoss recommended thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255
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Antiga, scout a 6 pooling zerg last after a 9 scout. He then goes into muta ling, how the fuck do I beat that. It's so fucking frustrating, it feels as though muta ling is so much easier to execute than defend. Highish diamond.
http://drop.sc/244206
I literally don't know what to do.
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Italy12248 Posts
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At no point in that thread does it say what you should do after scouting a 6 pool last. Hell, it doesn't even mention 6 pooling. Thanks though.
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EPT
