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[G] PvP : Modern 3 Stalker
Revision [ 1 ]
Changelog (oldest to newest descending):
> [ NEW ] Modified Stalker Control Section
> [ NEW ] Noted Assimilator in "Conservative" Build
> [ NEW ] Added replays from IEM Kiev
Overview
Hello all! I'm sure a lot of you have seen the old thread about the 3 Stalker rush, but that thread is old. Since there was a recent snow storm where I live that cancelled school for a week I've been able to play a bit more lately and want to share what I've learned!
There are many variations of this opening that can be executed depending on the circumstances of how the early game plays out. The strength in this opening is versatility -something hard to achieve in a mirror matchup, especially PvP.
Before we continue, you must realize that this opening is rather difficult to execute, and you shouldn't actually use more than a single Sentry in the early game. Knowing this, I still highly recommend everyone try this opening, as pushing your boundaries until they become your new norm is how you improve.
Performance vs Stability (Greed vs Safety)
Currently my favorite way to play this opening is with a very fast tech structure off of just two Gateways. Although you can play a much safer variation with 3 Gateways into a tech structure of your choice. This opening is even versatile enough to allow you a very strong delayed 4 Gate on Tal'Darim Altar, or other maps with similar layouts such as Bel'Shir beach. I'll provide information on all of the variations I know of.
◕ Delay Scout
Whenever there is little to no threat of proxy 2 Gates, you can delay your scout immensely in PvP due to the probability of there not being cheese. On any 4 spawn map you can delay your first scout for as long as when your Cybernetics Core goes down. You can do this because you don't really need to look for cheese, except for perhaps cannon rushing around your main, and because you can still scout all the information you need by the time his first Stalker will finish. This will allow you an extra boost of minerals to then invest towards some sort of advantage.
On other maps such as XNC where there are only 2-3 spawns, you should scout after your first Gateway to search for proxy gates. Even on Shakuras Plateau.
◕ Greedy - Vs fast Vespene or Chrono on Nexus
Obviously you'll want a fast Vespene geyser as well, so take it right after your Gateway (or before if you're afraid he'll steal it). You'll want to match your opponent's chrono on his Nexus if he spends it on his, unless you're comfortable with a 4 Gate followup - however a 4 Gate followup is not within the scope of this post.
- Pylon
- Chrono -> Nexus @100% Pylon
- Chrono -> Nexus @100% Chrono
- Gateway
- Assimilator
- Pylon (2)
- Cybernetics Core
- Gateway (2)
- Assimilator (2)
- Stalker + WarpGate Research @100% Cybernetics Core
- One Probe on Second Vespene Geyser
- Pylon (3)
- Pause Probe production (24-25 supply)
- Two Stalkers @100% Gateway (2)
- Resume Probe production
- Chrono -> WarpGate Research; Stalker; Stalker
- Scout sides of base with two Probes
- Two probes on Second Vespene Geyser
- Tech Structure
- Gateway (3) OR additional units from Gateways
- Pylon (4)
◕ Conservative - Vs Suspected 4 Gate; No Second Geyser + Stocked Chrono
There are a slew of different aggressive openings that can come at you, and you can deviate from this next outline by greeding as much as you like until it becomes the opening just above this one. It just depends on how comfortable you are with your early game defense. However this outline will be the most conservative outline that I realistically use.
- Pylon
- Chrono -> Nexus @100% Pylon
- Chrono -> Nexus @100% Chrono
- Gateway
- Assimilator
- Pylon (2)
- Cybernetics Core
- Gateway (2)
- Stalker + WarpGate Research @100% Cybernetics Core
- Two Stalkers @100% Gateway (2)
- Chrono -> WarpGate Research; Stalker; Stalker
- Robotics Facility
- Pylon (3)
- Gateway (3)
- Zealot; Sentry*
- Pylon (4)
- *This Sentry is used to FF the ramp during the opponent's initial attempt to bust your ramp.
- Note: The Assimilator (2) can now be taken as comfortable. However, you can take it earlier if you feel comfortable. Right after the Robotics Facility goes down may be a good time.
The Tech - Mid-Game
During the mid-game there are three tech structures to choose; Stargate; Twilight Council; Robotics Facility. I like to use all three! No not all three at once 
I don't intend to make an exhaustive resource for these three tech structures, as that's a large amount of valuable information that I honestly don't have time to write, and probably shouldn't write as I can't give away everything I know for free. I would however love to outline the general thought process of going each of the tech paths.
◕ Stargate
Stargate is I think the most interesting of all three tech choices. Phoenixes make for very interesting games. The phoenix allows a player to consistently pin their opponent in threatening to strike Probes, also allow a player to bust ramps extremely easily by lifting key units such as Sentries or Immortals.
If you open with fast Stargate there are two options: expand or allin. Things to note about opening with a fast Stargate is that detection is delayed unless a fast Robo is also opted. Fast Stargate may also be a build order loss to fast Twilight Council, at the very least a soft-counter.
◕ Robotics Facility
The Robotics Facility during the mid-game works well in a few ways: 2 Colossus Allin/Colossus Expand; Immortal FE; Blink + Obs; Phoenix/Immortal/Zealot allin. I would recommend to newer players to definitely get a Robotics Facility as their mid-game tech structure, as it prevents unnecessary losses to Dark Templar, and provides Observers which are key for people trying to improve. In my opinion there is very little risk involved with Robotics oriented styles of play.
I suggest trying a 2 Colossus allin or Immortal FE with a grounding in the 3 Stalker opening. I've beaten many many a player with a simple 2 Colossus allin off of the 3 Stalker opening.
◕ Twilight Council
The Twilight Council allows for: Chargelot/Archon; Dark Templar; Blink; Chargelot/Immortal. Twilight openings are always the scariest for me to face, and thus why I've been messing around so long with a DT FE variation. Fast DT allow for strong harass presence, fast Blink grants insane mobility and many aggressive options, and then there's the Chargelot/Archon and Immortal variations as well.
If you open with the 3 Stalker I suggest trying very fast Blink. If your opponent has only one unit from a Robitics facility by the time Blink finishes, you should be able to simply Blink up and bust the ramp victoriously with equal micro.
Stalker Control
This build involves a lot of subtle Stalker control techniques that allow for a successful opening. I've compiled a simple priority list to help!
- Block entrance to Natural (defend your ramp!)
- Kill Probes
- Kill Stalkers
- Kill Zealots
- Kill Pylons
That's it! If you prioritize what you do with your Stalkers properly then you'll be in great shape. The reason you want to block you Natural Expansion location as top priority is because this is the area you do not want any pylons to be placed. Who cares if a pylon for a 4 Gate is placed in the middle of the map -it doesn't matter. What matters is nothing goes inside of your Natural un-contested.
The next most important thing is to snipe probes. This is higher priority than sniping Pylons because without Probes there are no Pylons.
It's important to understand what I mean by Kill Stalkers and Kill Zealots. You don't want to chase things and stray from your ramp. However if enemy units are going to stand there and let you kill them (which is common believe it or not) then kill them! Killing an enemy unit this early in the game can win or lose you the game.
Killing pylons is lowest on the priority schema because you should be preventing pylons from being near your ramp. However if a Pylon does manage to land right on your ramp and there is little to no opposition around to prevent you from sniping it before WG finishes, do it by all means.
To note, there should absolutely never be a reason for a Pylon to be placed up on inside of your main. If this happens (unless it's ridiculously early like before your first Stalker has arrived) you probably deserve to lose the game. Prevent this!
Lastly, notice how I said kill not damage. Kill kill kill, you are a killer! You don't want your Stalkers to simply shoot at something only for it to run away, or for you to retreat. Shooting down shields (and to an extent HP) is just as bad as allying your opponent for the duration of your control schism.
If you are comfortable that a 4 Gate will not hit you, perhaps he took a second geyser and didn't stock much chrono, you can change your priority schema. Perhaps you want to fake hiding a fast expansion, or perhaps you want to attempt a mini-bust of your opponent as you assume strong greed (1 Gate + Tech). These can be done with your initial Stalkers. Naniwa at IEM Kiev has actually been doing a 2 Gate Stalker pressure + Tech structure (Twilight Council), and it's very cool. Just don't blindly run your Stalkers across the map and up the ramp -if you lose them to a couple Zealots and a Sentry you'll be disastrously behind. See the Naniwa replays below for resources on an aggressive 2 Gate into Blink.
Resources
- Humble replay pack featuring various scenarios: Pack
- Pack from IEM Kiev, featuring HerO, WhiteRa, and Naniwa using a triple Stalker opening! Pack
- http://drop.sc/99847 - Replay from Xaeldaren
- Post up your own replays! I'll add them to this list
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As always Cecil, amazing.
Your strategy is multifaceted, leaving little to no room for mistakes due to poor decision making due to the elaboration of this guide.
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wow, I've been thinking about variations of the 3stalker opening a lot recently, and now a wild [g] appears from cecil! this is so great!
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-edited out, please delete-
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I remember Axslav saying that the 3 stalker opener was archaic and that it is too easy to exploit, because you could sent probes from multiple angles, and on big maps you could sneak close pylons or probes fairly easily.
Or something like that...
I'll try to see if I can find the VoD where he talked about the 3 stalker rush on his stream.
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On January 22 2012 15:39 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
I remember Axslav saying that the 3 stalker opener was archaic and that it is too easy to exploit, because you could sent probes from multiple angles, and on big maps you could sneak close pylons or probes fairly easily.
Or something like that...
I'll try to see if I can find the VoD where he talked about the 3 stalker rush on his stream.
No probe sneaking can be done on the maps I play the opening on.
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Well its decided got my new PvP build
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lol, was just checking your account earlier today to see if you released a new guide. My Spidey Senses are tingling.
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when do you build your 2nd assimilator in the "conservative" version?
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On January 22 2012 16:21 Zeetee wrote:
when do you build your 2nd assimilator in the "conservative" version?
It's assumed to be after the listing. However like I stated, you can "greed" the Assimilator in earlier if you feel like you can get away with it. It should be very easy to fit it in before the tech structure.
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the only time i've seen a 2nd gate at 18 or 19 supply in an opener that i've liked is what nani has been doing a bit at kiev. but I still don't understand what this second gate offers me that I can't already have with a 1 gate opener :/
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On January 22 2012 16:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
the only time i've seen a 2nd gate at 18 or 19 supply in an opener that i've liked is what nani has been doing a bit at kiev. but I still don't understand what this second gate offers me that I can't already have with a 1 gate opener :/
For unit production before WG finishes. You gotta get a second Gate at some point, so it's not cutting into anything else, but allows you the option to construct units from it if you wish. Make sense? At least that's how I see it. Sometimes I don't even produce anything from it (ultra greed).
I think a lot also comes down to personal preference.
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On January 22 2012 16:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
the only time i've seen a 2nd gate at 18 or 19 supply in an opener that i've liked is what nani has been doing a bit at kiev. but I still don't understand what this second gate offers me that I can't already have with a 1 gate opener :/
2 gate openings let you skip the zealot so you have fewer non-stalker units later on for blinking. Also I think 3 stalker openings have more map control early on so it's easier to poke around and scout a 1 gate FE.
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On January 22 2012 17:14 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 16:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
the only time i've seen a 2nd gate at 18 or 19 supply in an opener that i've liked is what nani has been doing a bit at kiev. but I still don't understand what this second gate offers me that I can't already have with a 1 gate opener :/ 2 gate openings let you skip the zealot so you have fewer non-stalker units later on for blinking. Also I think 3 stalker openings have more map control early on so it's easier to poke around and scout a 1 gate FE.
yep. the only time i'd condone a second gate on 19 (i don't condone a 2nd gate on 18 :p) is when you use the 3 stalkers somewhat aggressively. i hate the builds kr tosses do where they rush the 2nd gate and 2nd gas and use them defensively. sacrifice probe production, map control and early gw production for safety they could have off of a single gate
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United States8476 Posts
On January 22 2012 17:16 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 17:14 iamke55 wrote:On January 22 2012 16:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
the only time i've seen a 2nd gate at 18 or 19 supply in an opener that i've liked is what nani has been doing a bit at kiev. but I still don't understand what this second gate offers me that I can't already have with a 1 gate opener :/ 2 gate openings let you skip the zealot so you have fewer non-stalker units later on for blinking. Also I think 3 stalker openings have more map control early on so it's easier to poke around and scout a 1 gate FE. yep. the only time i'd condone a second gate on 19 (i don't condone a 2nd gate on 18 :p) is when you use the 3 stalkers somewhat aggressively. i hate the builds kr tosses do where they rush the 2nd gate and 2nd gas and use them defensively. sacrifice probe production, map control and early gw production for safety they could have off of a single gate
One big advantage of 2 gate openings that you might be overlooking is that you can defend 4 gates with just those 2 gates. With 1 gate openings, you need to eventually go up to 3 gates for the possibility of 4 gate. 2 builds that this advantage would be beneficial for are 2 gate expand and 2 gate phoenix.
With 2 gate expand, you're expanding as fast as possible without dying to 4 gate. 1 gate expand doesn't defend 4 gates. 3 gate expand is less greedy and imo less safe in the long run because of the later robo followup for obs and immortals.
I personally prefer 2 gate phoenix over 1 gate phoenix as well. One reason is that I don't ever use 3 gates initially and imo 3 gates is a really awkward number of gates to have when you go phoenix. It's not really enough to all-in with and you don't need all 3 to defend stuff. I always put up either a robo, 2 gates, or a nexus after my 2 gate phoenix opening. I can't think of a reason I would ever get a 3rd gate. Another small detail is that on average 2 gate defenses use fewer sentries than 1 gate defenses on average in my experience(probably around 1 fewer on average). When you're going phoenix especially, you want as much gas spent into phoenixes as possible.
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On January 22 2012 17:57 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 17:16 Alejandrisha wrote:On January 22 2012 17:14 iamke55 wrote:On January 22 2012 16:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
the only time i've seen a 2nd gate at 18 or 19 supply in an opener that i've liked is what nani has been doing a bit at kiev. but I still don't understand what this second gate offers me that I can't already have with a 1 gate opener :/ 2 gate openings let you skip the zealot so you have fewer non-stalker units later on for blinking. Also I think 3 stalker openings have more map control early on so it's easier to poke around and scout a 1 gate FE. yep. the only time i'd condone a second gate on 19 (i don't condone a 2nd gate on 18 :p) is when you use the 3 stalkers somewhat aggressively. i hate the builds kr tosses do where they rush the 2nd gate and 2nd gas and use them defensively. sacrifice probe production, map control and early gw production for safety they could have off of a single gate One big advantage of 2 gate openings that you might be overlooking is that you can defend 4 gates with just those 2 gates. With 1 gate openings, you need to eventually go up to 3 gates for the possibility of 4 gate. 2 builds that this advantage would be beneficial for are 2 gate expand and 2 gate phoenix. With 2 gate expand, you're expanding as fast as possible without dying to 4 gate. 1 gate expand doesn't defend 4 gates. 3 gate expand is less greedy and imo less safe in the long run because of the later robo followup for obs and immortals. I personally prefer 2 gate phoenix over 1 gate phoenix as well. One reason is that I don't ever use 3 gates initially and imo 3 gates is a really awkward number of gates to have when you go phoenix. It's not really enough to all-in with and you don't need all 3 to defend stuff. I always put up either a robo, 2 gates, or a nexus after my 2 gate phoenix opening. I can't think of a reason I would ever get a 3rd gate. Another small detail is that on average 2 gate defenses use fewer sentries than 1 gate defenses on average in my experience(probably around 1 fewer on average). When you're going phoenix especially, you want as much gas spent into phoenixes as possible.
this is just incorrect. a 1 gate tech build can hold a 4 gate with a 2nd gate on 30 supply after starting to tech, supplying the 3rd sentry if need be. 2 gate builds that get the 2nd gate on 29 food before a tech structure can do the same. the only advantage a fast 2nd gate for quick 3 and/or 5 stalkers has over a 1gate build is the ability to poke with stalkers after 4gate is out of the question, as far as i can tell. using these 2 gates and getting a very fast 2nd gas for safety is inefficient and too passive if you are teching. puzzle vs parting demonstrated that, if nothing else.
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United States8476 Posts
On January 22 2012 18:31 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 17:57 NrGmonk wrote:On January 22 2012 17:16 Alejandrisha wrote:On January 22 2012 17:14 iamke55 wrote:On January 22 2012 16:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
the only time i've seen a 2nd gate at 18 or 19 supply in an opener that i've liked is what nani has been doing a bit at kiev. but I still don't understand what this second gate offers me that I can't already have with a 1 gate opener :/ 2 gate openings let you skip the zealot so you have fewer non-stalker units later on for blinking. Also I think 3 stalker openings have more map control early on so it's easier to poke around and scout a 1 gate FE. yep. the only time i'd condone a second gate on 19 (i don't condone a 2nd gate on 18 :p) is when you use the 3 stalkers somewhat aggressively. i hate the builds kr tosses do where they rush the 2nd gate and 2nd gas and use them defensively. sacrifice probe production, map control and early gw production for safety they could have off of a single gate One big advantage of 2 gate openings that you might be overlooking is that you can defend 4 gates with just those 2 gates. With 1 gate openings, you need to eventually go up to 3 gates for the possibility of 4 gate. 2 builds that this advantage would be beneficial for are 2 gate expand and 2 gate phoenix. With 2 gate expand, you're expanding as fast as possible without dying to 4 gate. 1 gate expand doesn't defend 4 gates. 3 gate expand is less greedy and imo less safe in the long run because of the later robo followup for obs and immortals. I personally prefer 2 gate phoenix over 1 gate phoenix as well. One reason is that I don't ever use 3 gates initially and imo 3 gates is a really awkward number of gates to have when you go phoenix. It's not really enough to all-in with and you don't need all 3 to defend stuff. I always put up either a robo, 2 gates, or a nexus after my 2 gate phoenix opening. I can't think of a reason I would ever get a 3rd gate. Another small detail is that on average 2 gate defenses use fewer sentries than 1 gate defenses on average in my experience(probably around 1 fewer on average). When you're going phoenix especially, you want as much gas spent into phoenixes as possible. this is just incorrect. a 1 gate tech build can hold a 4 gate with a 2nd gate on 30 supply after starting to tech, supplying the 3rd sentry if need be. 2 gate builds that get the 2nd gate on 29 food before a tech structure can do the same. the only advantage a fast 2nd gate for quick 3 and/or 5 stalkers has over a 1gate build is the ability to poke with stalkers after 4gate is out of the question, as far as i can tell. using these 2 gates and getting a very fast 2nd gas for safety is inefficient and too passive if you are teching. puzzle vs parting demonstrated that, if nothing else.
I've never seen a 4 gate defense like the one you describe with just 2 gates, especially at the pro level, but I don't doubt it's possible. Ok then, some other things I've thought of. When you're 2 gate expanding, you want the map control that you gain from the initial 3 stalkers. 3 stalkers allows you to deny pokes from your opponent's either 2 or 3 stalkers, which is very important for a fast expand. I think by far 2 gate expand is the "safest" fast expand.
Also, I think it's good to ask what exactly is the advantage of going 1 gate tech into 2 gate versus 2 gate tech.
- The gas timings are very similar and the numbers of probes you get is similar.
- Both can transition into 4 gates, somewhat threatening the possibility of 4 gate. The 3 stalker rush build has a much harder time getting a pylon below the ramp in time, but if "4 gate is truly dead", then that shouldn't matter that much.
- Both builds also use the same number of chronoboosts initially(4) to defend 4 gate, although a 1 gate defense uses more if indeed a 4 gate is coming.
- The tech structure timing of both these builds is nearly identical. The 1 gate tech timing assuming the tech is either robo or twilight is around 4:43-4:45 while the 2 gate tech is around 4:45-4:50.
- You have on average ~1.5 fewer units with a 1 gate build versus a 2 gate build. One potential problem with this is that you will have to rely on shutting out with force field for a longer time instead of cutting with it. This could possibly lead to having to make 1 more sentry with the 1 gate build versus the 2 gate build.
In my eyes, these are all minor differences and which ever build you choose comes mostly to preference. One of these isn't definitively better than the other.
Also, Cecil, you're missing the 2nd assimilator in your "conservative" build.
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China6328 Posts
On January 22 2012 19:52 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 18:31 Alejandrisha wrote:On January 22 2012 17:57 NrGmonk wrote:On January 22 2012 17:16 Alejandrisha wrote:On January 22 2012 17:14 iamke55 wrote:On January 22 2012 16:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
the only time i've seen a 2nd gate at 18 or 19 supply in an opener that i've liked is what nani has been doing a bit at kiev. but I still don't understand what this second gate offers me that I can't already have with a 1 gate opener :/ 2 gate openings let you skip the zealot so you have fewer non-stalker units later on for blinking. Also I think 3 stalker openings have more map control early on so it's easier to poke around and scout a 1 gate FE. yep. the only time i'd condone a second gate on 19 (i don't condone a 2nd gate on 18 :p) is when you use the 3 stalkers somewhat aggressively. i hate the builds kr tosses do where they rush the 2nd gate and 2nd gas and use them defensively. sacrifice probe production, map control and early gw production for safety they could have off of a single gate One big advantage of 2 gate openings that you might be overlooking is that you can defend 4 gates with just those 2 gates. With 1 gate openings, you need to eventually go up to 3 gates for the possibility of 4 gate. 2 builds that this advantage would be beneficial for are 2 gate expand and 2 gate phoenix. With 2 gate expand, you're expanding as fast as possible without dying to 4 gate. 1 gate expand doesn't defend 4 gates. 3 gate expand is less greedy and imo less safe in the long run because of the later robo followup for obs and immortals. I personally prefer 2 gate phoenix over 1 gate phoenix as well. One reason is that I don't ever use 3 gates initially and imo 3 gates is a really awkward number of gates to have when you go phoenix. It's not really enough to all-in with and you don't need all 3 to defend stuff. I always put up either a robo, 2 gates, or a nexus after my 2 gate phoenix opening. I can't think of a reason I would ever get a 3rd gate. Another small detail is that on average 2 gate defenses use fewer sentries than 1 gate defenses on average in my experience(probably around 1 fewer on average). When you're going phoenix especially, you want as much gas spent into phoenixes as possible. this is just incorrect. a 1 gate tech build can hold a 4 gate with a 2nd gate on 30 supply after starting to tech, supplying the 3rd sentry if need be. 2 gate builds that get the 2nd gate on 29 food before a tech structure can do the same. the only advantage a fast 2nd gate for quick 3 and/or 5 stalkers has over a 1gate build is the ability to poke with stalkers after 4gate is out of the question, as far as i can tell. using these 2 gates and getting a very fast 2nd gas for safety is inefficient and too passive if you are teching. puzzle vs parting demonstrated that, if nothing else. I've never seen a 4 gate defense like the one you describe with just 2 gates, especially at the pro level, but I don't doubt it's possible. Ok then, some other things I've thought of. When you're 2 gate expanding, you want the map control that you gain from the initial 3 stalkers. 3 stalkers allows you to deny pokes from your opponent's either 2 or 3 stalkers, which is very important for a fast expand. I think by far 2 gate expand is the "safest" fast expand. Also, I think it's good to ask what exactly is the advantage of going 1 gate tech into 2 gate versus 2 gate tech. - The gas timings are very similar and the numbers of probes you get is similar.
- Both can transition into 4 gates, somewhat threatening the possibility of 4 gate. The 3 stalker rush build has a much harder time getting a pylon below the ramp in time, but if "4 gate is truly dead", then that shouldn't matter that much.
- Both builds also use the same number of chronoboosts initially(4) to defend 4 gate, although a 1 gate defense uses more if indeed a 4 gate is coming.
- The tech structure timing of both these builds is nearly identical. The 1 gate tech timing assuming the tech is either robo or twilight is around 4:43-4:45 while the 2 gate tech is around 4:45-4:50.
- You have on average ~1.5 fewer units with a 1 gate build versus a 2 gate build. One potential problem with this is that you will have to rely on shutting out with force field for a longer time instead of cutting with it. This could possibly lead to having to make 1 more sentry with the 1 gate build versus the 2 gate build.
In my eyes, these are all minor differences and which ever build you choose comes mostly to preference. One of these isn't definitively better than the other. Also, Cecil, you're missing the 2nd assimilator in your "conservative" build.
Feast defended HerO's 4 gate with the exact 1 gate into 2 gate tech build yesterday at IEM kiev.
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Overall I still think 2 gate builds are not really optimal as it delays the tech too much.
3 stalkers can be nice for some map scouting etc. but when I'm planning on tech I just want to get that tech up ASAP while still being safe and hiding it if possible. Just going for 1 quick stalker from 1 gate will do for this and I don't really see a need to get 2 gates early with a tech build. It's perfectly possible to defend 4 gates with 1 gate - tech- 2nd gate, especially with robo tech. With council or stargate it's harder but I don't recommend those techs if you think you're opponent plans to 4 gate.
Only with a blink play in mind do I like 2 gate openers as skipping the zealot is ofcourse a huge boon then. Still when I go for blink-robo I usually still go with just 1 gate and use a sentry because it feels safer to me that way but that might be entirely wrong. The sentry can be nice with blink play for some tricks but perhaps it is just better to skip it for that extra stalker.
3 stalker defense into 3 gate is awesome on tal-darim and other maps like it though. 3 gates are enough to support 22 mining probes so on maps where your opponent is almost certain to 4 gate defeding with 3 gates purely stalker is a great way to hold it off. The build is basically the same but instead of chronoing stalkers you just chrono warpgate tech. If you do it well you chrono warpgate tech 4 times from a 13 gate (so they are max 15 secs faster on their warpgate) and have 5 stalkers + 3 gates ready by the time warpgate finishes. Active stalker use should delay the pylon far enough that your 8 stalkers will do just fine against his potential 6 stalkers, 1 zealot.
Overall though I think 3 stalker defense has a couple flaws why it shouldn't be used too much:
- it delays the second assimilator and the following tech too much, in return for some map control. 1 gate builds can defend 4 gate just as well on most maps and just get up tech faster. They might require a sentry more to do so but they also gather the gas earlier so that isn't that troublesome.
- you're showing the opponent too much early on. When your opponent scouts the 2 gates and 3 chrono being used on nexus already plus a chrono on the stalker he can simply deduce too much imo. 4 gate is out of the window because of the chrono being spent on other stuff already, 1 gate expo is obviously not possible anymore either and very fast tech like a dt build isn't possible because of the lack of gas. Basically you're telling your opponent you intend to do 2 gate robo, blink or stargate. I think there are some builds which can specifically counter the 2 gate build on some maps.
- there is a huge window for the other to do a gas steal! Because you lack a zealot you can't take down the assimilator quickly and the second gate also makes a quick FE much harder. You could possibly do some robo build off 1 gas with an expo perhaps but expoing is still a gambling game in PvP that I don't like to do. Getting gas stolen without having a quick zealot is just really detrimental I think and if you're forced to use the stalker to kill the assimilator it gets even worse as you've lost your early map presence then.
@ monk don't you think the difference in tech timing is much bigger between 1 gate and 2 gate defense? With gate-robo-gate the robo is up MUCH faster then with gate-gate-robo really. This is basically because robo tech doesn't need a sentry that early because it's already quite decent at stopping 4 gates because of immortals. I think the difference is 20 seconds at least, which is quite big if you want to scout with an obs asap.
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This is amazing, I open with this a lot in PvP and I love the flexibility it gives you. This thread is really detailed and actually corrects several things I did wrong, like the chronos. Thanks you! ^^
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EPT
