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On April 09 2012 09:46 Treyus wrote:read the guide, thought it was excellent. saw it was by CecilSunkure, now i know why its excellent. As always Cecil your guide is fantastic. Btw I've been doing a 3 stalker opening into robo with a delayed stargate to get about 5 phoenix for harass then transition into colossi or chargelot archon (with or without expand depending on what seems appropriate). I tried finding a way to transition into immortal carrier after the 5 phoenix but unless i have an upgrade lead it's just really hard to make carriers work  :{ :[
carriers are bad you say? well isn't that unfortunate
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I use the greedy variant of your build, and I was wondering when is a safe time to grab an expo if you open with SG tech. Oftentimes after opening with 3 stalker (scouting a lack of 4gate) I can grab an expo at around 30 supply slightly before WG tech completes, and before SG completes (which I do). Then poking with my stalkers (making sure not to lose them) I warp in another 2 stalkers (it delays my first phoenix slightly), and then just take map control with my stalkers. I mostly have done this against 1 basing robo, but I'm not sure how solid what I'm doing is. I think I might be winning just because my opponents aren't good enough to punish it.
Here's my replay, can you look for any gaping flaws within it (despite the fact that I win)? Thanks.
http://drop.sc/160776
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I have switched to opening 3-Stalker every PvP, and for the most part I'm having a lot of success. However, I'm finding it very difficult to defend against the 11-gate 3-gate push where they show up with two Probes, because it's nearly impossible to snipe the Probes fast enough to stop a pylon (or several) from going down.
What is the correct response to scouting an 11-gate with lots of CB energy when you're going this build?
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On May 14 2012 18:47 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I have switched to opening 3-Stalker every PvP, and for the most part I'm having a lot of success. However, I'm finding it very difficult to defend against the 11-gate 3-gate push where they show up with two Probes, because it's nearly impossible to snipe the Probes fast enough to stop a pylon (or several) from going down.
What is the correct response to scouting an 11-gate with lots of CB energy when you're going this build?
Against the most agressive versions you may have to pull 6-8 probes to help kill the pylons as fast as possible. Snipping the ennemy probe(s) is still highest priority though.
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If you opt for the robo as your next tech structure, is it better to get an immortal or obs out first, and should they be chronoboosted?
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On July 07 2012 14:25 Wyrd wrote:
If you opt for the robo as your next tech structure, is it better to get an immortal or obs out first, and should they be chronoboosted?
If you don't know what he's doing 100% then you chrono an obs and send it straight to his base, then make an immortal and while it is making hold position all your units on your ramp. Then react to what you scout.
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hi
for the conservative build, the pylon(3) come to late?
you have probably to stop at 20 probes...
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So, I noticed this discussion about the second assimilator stopped a while ago, but does anyone else prefer to delay the second assim until after starting the first stalker and WG? I haven't noticed it impacting my gas intake for the upcoming pair of stalkers or for any followup tech (tried robo into 2 colo as well as stargate).
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On July 13 2012 04:06 yazoo wrote:
hi
for the conservative build, the pylon(3) come to late?
you have probably to stop at 20 probes...
There's a probe cut at 22 (when your first stalker is on its way, you stop at 22 so that you can get the next 2 stalkers and build the pylon when you have the money.) Can't be bothered to go check the original post, but I'm pretty sure that's mentioned in all the 3 stalker opens.
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Thanks for writing up such a comprehensive yet concise guide, cecil.
I have a question regarding scouting on 4-player maps. You state in your guide that if you are sure that a proxy 2Gate is unlikely to happen, then you can delay the scout as long as before the Cybernetics Core comes up. However, if you do so, it's really hard to reach the enemy base in time before you have to choose between the 'greedy' and 'safe' variant of the build. By the time you reach his base and determine whether or not your opponent is attempting to 4Gate, you would already have branched into one of the two builds.
If there is a method to prevent this problem, or if I am simply incorrect, please tell me! I really like this guide and I intend to utilize it until I become more than comfortable with it.
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I like to do a variation on this aswell, i get the 3 fast stalker as you did, but i never really scout for anything but their position on the map, i follow the 3 stalker with 2 sentries and get ready to defend any 4 gate aggresion. If it doesnt come in standard timing i just expand, add a robo another gate, 2 more sentries, start cronoboosting immortals from the robo.
I find this variation of the build very solid, the hardest things to defend is delayed 4 gate(which doesnt happend), 1 base blink no robo, 3 gate phoenix allin. But everything is possible to defend i belive.
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On July 19 2012 16:16 vizi wrote:
Thanks for writing up such a comprehensive yet concise guide, cecil.
I have a question regarding scouting on 4-player maps. You state in your guide that if you are sure that a proxy 2Gate is unlikely to happen, then you can delay the scout as long as before the Cybernetics Core comes up. However, if you do so, it's really hard to reach the enemy base in time before you have to choose between the 'greedy' and 'safe' variant of the build. By the time you reach his base and determine whether or not your opponent is attempting to 4Gate, you would already have branched into one of the two builds.
If there is a method to prevent this problem, or if I am simply incorrect, please tell me! I really like this guide and I intend to utilize it until I become more than comfortable with it.
Yeah, it's pretty simple actually!
You can play greedy with your opening in you sneak in an extra probe, mine Vespene a bit faster, but still get 3 Stalkers with the 2nd and 3rd Chronoboosted. However, just before you lay down your tech structure (before third Gateway) order a Zealot and a Sentry. This will allow you to have a Zealot, one Sentry and three Stalkers in the event the opponent tries to play an aggresive opening. You will also have two more units to warp in directly behind these, all the while constructing your tech. I win a lot of PvP matches like this, and my most recent stream VOD should display this multiple times.
If you feel safe, you can cancel the Sentry and or Zealot and tech even harder (100% refund of resources).
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On July 20 2012 14:47 CecilSunkure wrote:
Yeah, it's pretty simple actually!
You can play greedy with your opening in you sneak in an extra probe, mine Vespene a bit faster, but still get 3 Stalkers with the 2nd and 3rd Chronoboosted. However, just before you lay down your tech structure (before third Gateway) order a Zealot and a Sentry. This will allow you to have a Zealot, one Sentry and three Stalkers in the event the opponent tries to play an aggresive opening. You will also have two more units to warp in directly behind these, all the while constructing your tech. I win a lot of PvP matches like this, and my most recent stream VOD should display this multiple times.
If you feel safe, you can cancel the Sentry and or Zealot and tech even harder (100% refund of resources).
Cecil, do you think it's too late to go into an Immortal expand if I get out a Zealot and Sentry? Actually, do you think an Immortal Expand is even possible with this opening? It's kind of what I've been doing and I don't know whether or not it's a good opening for it.
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Italy12246 Posts
I think it's definitely doable; you can always get your immortal after your nexus has gone down. One of the strengths of a 3stalker opening is that you can get away with a pretty fast nexus while keeping your opponent in the dark about it for quite a long time, since you will be the one with map control.
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On July 20 2012 17:40 vizi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 14:47 CecilSunkure wrote:
Yeah, it's pretty simple actually!
You can play greedy with your opening in you sneak in an extra probe, mine Vespene a bit faster, but still get 3 Stalkers with the 2nd and 3rd Chronoboosted. However, just before you lay down your tech structure (before third Gateway) order a Zealot and a Sentry. This will allow you to have a Zealot, one Sentry and three Stalkers in the event the opponent tries to play an aggresive opening. You will also have two more units to warp in directly behind these, all the while constructing your tech. I win a lot of PvP matches like this, and my most recent stream VOD should display this multiple times.
If you feel safe, you can cancel the Sentry and or Zealot and tech even harder (100% refund of resources). Cecil, do you think it's too late to go into an Immortal expand if I get out a Zealot and Sentry? Actually, do you think an Immortal Expand is even possible with this opening? It's kind of what I've been doing and I don't know whether or not it's a good opening for it.
Yeah it's doable but not optimal anymore. It'd be better in my opinion to come up with some sort of 2 Gate Robo, where you go Gate Robo Gate and get out a couple Zealots, an Immortal, and a Sentry. This instead of the 3 Stalker expand will let you take a quicker Nexus, I feel, if you want to Immortal Expand.
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EPT
