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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
I am looking for some cool and simple builds to start laddering with. (g2 play placement matches)
PvT: day9 showed some cool build of SaSe in one of his recent dailies, i think i will stick to it.
PvP: was thinking about 3 stalker rush, i want to be safe against proxy gates though, and other cheesy builds
PvZ: I am kinda worried and afraid of FFE, especially when in lower leagues ppl cheese a lot (6pool etc). I know it can be defended with it but i think it would b better to stick with smthing simplier... I would prefer smthing that is safe early and does not put me in terrible position for midgame. (2gate sentry expand?)
apriciate your help : )
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On July 12 2012 08:41 imagran wrote:
I am looking for some cool and simple builds to start laddering with. (g2 play placement matches)
PvT: day9 showed some cool build of SaSe in one of his recent dailies, i think i will stick to it.
PvP: was thinking about 3 stalker rush, i want to be safe against proxy gates though, and other cheesy builds
PvZ: I am kinda worried and afraid of FFE, especially when in lower leagues ppl cheese a lot (6pool etc). I know it can be defended with it but i think it would b better to stick with smthing simplier... I would prefer smthing that is safe early and does not put me in terrible position for midgame. (2gate sentry expand?)
apriciate your help : )
PvP thats a fine build to use, as long as you scout for proxy locations
PvZ: i would use ffe, and it can be argued that it is one of the safest early game builds, just learn how to defend 6pool while doing ffe and your fine
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Thanks for reply 
3stalker rush requires some kind of high(-lish) apm and I am also lloking for a followup.
While i am just starting off i would like to try something that i know i am safe with.
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You could learn the 4 Gate? It's still viable in PvP (especially at lower levels). Or go for a 1/2 Gate to Robo and expo after an Immortal and Obs. 2 Gate may be safer, I think, if you are worried about cheese/early aggression.
Read the description of the 1G/2G to Robo in Alej's thread here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302117
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What strat are you doing vs. Terran? If it's a standard build, I don't think it'd hold well in the lower leagues, as I'm sure not many low league players 1 rax FE. Terran you kinda have to go with the flow. If you expo vs. Terran before they do, you're very vulnerable to a 1 base rax all in, which is very strong.
PvP: The 3 stalker opening is a very common opening. You can poke or you can defend against the probe for proxy pylons. A good opening behind it is 3g 1 robo. But like always, it depends on what your opponent is doing. Not many strategies cover everything, especially in a mirror match. If you go SG, you're vulnerable to DT's. You can't just go into a game saying "I'm going to do this", you have to know how to react. So when you say you want a follow up, it's pretty much all depending on what you see. If you don't see anything, go robo. Once you have an immortal or two and a fairly even gateway army, you can expo off of it.
To not be vulnerable to early cheeses, just scout with your 9 pylon. If he's proxying or cannon rushing, you'll catch it in time to respond. If he's coming with early pressure, it's probably a 4 gate and just get a few sentries and FF the ramp until you can get an immortal out, then you'll be fine.
PvZ: I would suggest the FFE like P7G said. Although there are advantages to Gate first, it's also a much more complex strategy, as in order for it to be worth it, you almost have to do damage early, which is what it's designed for. The good thing to that is it forces the zerg to play a totally different style then what they're used to. If they go quick 3 hatches, they're going to be hurting if/when you come with earlier pressure. So although the Gate FE has advantages, it's really hard to get down.
There are some strong 2 base all ins that would probably work most of the time in lower leagues if done right. But there are some tech builds off of it as well.
Hope this helps, happy gaming.
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http://drop.sc/219100
Hello,
I am Rank 2 in Europe in Master League currently, but I have a problem concerning Terran where I don´t see any proper solution. It´s Protoss against AIR Terran (Banshee, Raven, Viking, Medivac Bio Drops) starting off with Tanks to defend their 2 Base and inbase 3rd CC.
I have seen every active featured Protoss Stream (desrow, Real, Incontrol, Grubby, Feast etc.) and they most of the the time didn´t play against this or if they did they tried weird stuff like: Phenix Void Ray, Stalker Colossi, High Templar Blink Stalker, Warpprism Zealot Drops and a lot of expanding or other stuff, but most of the time they simply died, because even Colossi die to 5-6 tanks and mass cloaked banshees.
You need observers to see the banshees, but Terran will Scan all day to snipe every observer. You also need Templars to feedback the banshees and Stalkers, Colossi, Immortals to deal enough damage. However, even if you have 2/2 like I had and your Terran enemy only 1/0 or not even upgrades, their composition is just too powerful.
I am not saying this is a balance problem, because I have a high winrate against Terrans, but not against AIR Terran.
Please post some VODS/Replays of high level play (Grandmaster-High Masters), where Protoss wins and the Terran was not playing bad and did a similar playstyle to my game http://drop.sc/219100.
Thanks!
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On July 12 2012 08:41 imagran wrote:
PvT: day9 showed some cool build of SaSe in one of his recent dailies, i think i will stick to it.
Oh yea that is so neat build.
Saw it on Day[9] but didn't actually pay attention, but recently watched it executed by MVPfinale (or was ot TAiLS???) an it was soo strong for terran to hadle.
Does anyone have any replay available for benchmarks?
Ty in advance.
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On July 12 2012 22:36 Rimak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 08:41 imagran wrote:
PvT: day9 showed some cool build of SaSe in one of his recent dailies, i think i will stick to it.
Oh yea that is so neat build. Saw it on Day[9] but didn't actually pay attention, but recently watched it executed by MVPfinale (or was ot TAiLS???) an it was soo strong for terran to hadle. Does anyone have any replay available for benchmarks? Ty in advance.
There is a replays pack:
http://www.sc2win.com/starcraft-2-replays/replay-packages/starcraft2-red-bull-battlegrounds-replays/
Its from Red Bull Battlegrounds. You have to search in game for the replay on Ohana, QuanticSaSe vs Liquid'Taeja.
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In PvT, how can I tell the difference between a Terran who's going to make 3 barracks and all-in me with a ton of SCVs around 4:30, and a Terran who's going to make a CC inside his base and 1 barrack expand? And if I can't tell the difference, is there a build that will,
a) Give me a good chance to survive a 3 barracks /w SCVs cheese
and,
b) Not put me too awfully behind if he's doing a 1 barrack expand?
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In PvP how should I play against stargate phoenix? I can hold off the harassment okay, but the following push with immortal and zealot (my stalkers are weak against both) just destroy my puny force for some reason.
My question broken down:
- How and when should I scout stargate play?
- What is the mindset? Expand immediately or build more gates and pump units do defend?
+ If the answer is to pump units, what is the ratio of units, and how do I know when to expand? (He has map control and can put up an expansion without me knowing.)
- I have been playing the speed prism 2 immortal drops with great success against everything else. But against this, I already put down 1 robo + 1 robo bay before knowing his stargate play. How do I fight with robo tech?
Thanks a lot!
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@Quochobao,
When you are scouting for that stargate play, keep your probe in your opponents base for some time to see if he takes an early 2nd gas.
The mindset: If your opponent ends his harrassment, try to scout more. When you expand and your opponent is still harrassing, you are going to have a bad time defending against that. Try doing 2 gate robo then get blink.
And finally: i would rather try to keep the robo for some time before i make a robo bay. Your opponent might spare that stargate for voidrays to counter your collossi
I hope this helps you =)
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Hey folks,
How do you avoid losing to a terran who blindly builds vikings and masses marines? My guess would be earlier templar, but even then if I'm playing double forge I don't really go for fast storm as I want to leverage my upgrades, and I also may be stuck on two base for a while which kind of limits my colossus/templar production.
My only guess is that after 2 or 3 colossus, switching back to immortals would give me enough had to support templar tech.
I have a replay but I'd rather not post it since I made other mistakes after he attacked that cost me the game, namely piss poor macro.
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On July 12 2012 23:45 Empirimancer wrote:
In PvT, how can I tell the difference between a Terran who's going to make 3 barracks and all-in me with a ton of SCVs around 4:30, and a Terran who's going to make a CC inside his base and 1 barrack expand? And if I can't tell the difference, is there a build that will,
a) Give me a good chance to survive a 3 barracks /w SCVs cheese
and,
b) Not put me too awfully behind if he's doing a 1 barrack expand?
Poke around with your probe to try to get a marine count. When (or if) he bunkers his natural put a stalker at the bottom of his ramp. The most important thing is to get the information when he's far away so you can react.
If you're one gate FEing, I think the response is to chrono stalkers and go to 3 gates before expand. I'm not sure if you should get sentries (probably nou since you're on one gas)
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On July 13 2012 00:14 McTeazy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:45 Empirimancer wrote:
In PvT, how can I tell the difference between a Terran who's going to make 3 barracks and all-in me with a ton of SCVs around 4:30, and a Terran who's going to make a CC inside his base and 1 barrack expand? And if I can't tell the difference, is there a build that will,
a) Give me a good chance to survive a 3 barracks /w SCVs cheese
and,
b) Not put me too awfully behind if he's doing a 1 barrack expand?
Poke around with your probe to try to get a marine count. When (or if) he bunkers his natural put a stalker at the bottom of his ramp. The most important thing is to get the information when he's far away so you can react. If you're one gate FEing, I think the response is to chrono stalkers and go to 3 gates before expand. I'm not sure if you should get sentries (probably nou since you're on one gas)
Thanks for the reply.
In my experience, poking around with a probe doesn't give reliable info in this case, since if the Terran's smart he'll only leave one or two marines near his ramp.
Also, the all-in I'm really worried about comes really, really early, with something like 4 marines and 10 scvs leaving his base before 4:30, so that when he gets to my base I have two stalkers at most.
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Hello, I am Rank 2 in Europe in Master League currently, but I have a problem concerning Terran where I don´t see any proper solution. It´s Protoss against AIR Terran (Banshee, Raven, Viking, Medivac Bio Drops) starting off with Tanks to defend their 2 Base and inbase 3rd CC. I have seen every active featured Protoss Stream (desrow, Real, Incontrol, Grubby, Feast etc.) and they most of the the time didn´t play against this or if they did they tried weird stuff like: Phenix Void Ray, Stalker Colossi, High Templar Blink Stalker, Warpprism Zealot Drops and a lot of expanding or other stuff, but most of the time they simply died, because even Colossi die to 5-6 tanks and mass cloaked banshees. You need observers to see the banshees, but Terran will Scan all day to snipe every observer. You also need Templars to feedback the banshees and Stalkers, Colossi, Immortals to deal enough damage. However, even if you have 2/2 like I had and your Terran enemy only 1/0 or not even upgrades, their composition is just too powerful. I am not saying this is a balance problem, because I have a high winrate against Terrans, but not against AIR Terran. Please post some VODS/Replays of high level play (Grandmaster-High Masters), where Protoss wins and the Terran was not playing bad and did a similar playstyle to my game http://drop.sc/219100. Thanks!
Hi, i watched your replay and i was having the same problem against this build.
I think you should opt for 2 mains things to change:
1. Either earlier robo for scouting, or hallucinated phoenix, so you know if its gonna be a tech lab on that star port or not.
2. Different tech path - Colossi are quite useless against this build because they take a lot of supply and gas, and they dont provide an answer to the Banshees. Stalkers are not a good answer to a lot of Banshees even though they seem like the natural response. Banshees just take them too easily, and the Siege Tanks as well.
I found the best tech path to deal with this build is having a Robo mainly for Observers, since Immortals won't shoot air and are not useful against Marines. And once Banshees are scouted immediately go for Templar tech. The reason for this is:
1. Archons, soak up a lot of damage, very good against marines, and shoot air with some splash. Much better gas investment than Colossi.
2. Feed back, great to deal with Banshees and Ravens.
3. Storm, great to deal with banshees since they are usually clumped up, and after a few feedbacks they would be injured,
and great against Marines as well.
Make sure you have around 3-5 observers at least, since the ravens easily spot them and you should always have at least 2 as back up.
Also a bit off topic but i would suggest not taking hidden expansions unless you are behind (which you weren't).
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Italy12246 Posts
On July 12 2012 23:45 Empirimancer wrote:
In PvT, how can I tell the difference between a Terran who's going to make 3 barracks and all-in me with a ton of SCVs around 4:30, and a Terran who's going to make a CC inside his base and 1 barrack expand? And if I can't tell the difference, is there a build that will,
a) Give me a good chance to survive a 3 barracks /w SCVs cheese
and,
b) Not put me too awfully behind if he's doing a 1 barrack expand?
Mc's safe 1gate expand where you get 2 stalkers out before the nexus, off the top of my head. If he goes for a marine scv allin, wall off your ramp with your extra gates and a pylon, and pick off his units with the stalkers you have been chronoing out.
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On July 12 2012 03:05 Tooasten wrote:hey =D im an eu toss who just got promoted to silver and it feels like i feel that i loses all the time without knowing why. I know i have to improve really simple stuff such as don´t being suply-blocked and build stuff all the time, but i feel that i loses games i should have won. i hope any1 got time to watch theese to replays and say what i should do better =D (sry for my english BTW =P) http://drop.sc/218681http://drop.sc/218680
You should focus on building probes and spending your chrono, especially early. In the *81 game you spent one chrono on probes and then you saved up 100 chrono for no reason. You lost that game because you had your army on walk, so nothing to learn from that. Except that you should a-move if you want to fight I guess.
Second game you didn't get your production up. You should have 3 gateways when warpgate finishes. You should transfer half your probes down to your natural and hotkey them so you can use them to fight. You can hold that with one gate, but you need good micro and get a surround with your probes. A super safe BO is 1gate FE (like you did) 3 chrono probes, one chrono on warpgate, then save chrono, get zealot stalker sentry out of one gate and add two gates, robo optional. When warpgate finishes, chrono all 3 gates while morphing and you should barely loose a single unit against 2-3rax shenanigans
Don't put too much thought into it, just make sure you keep building probes and get pylons in time. There are a million mistakes in both games (obviously), but it's probably best you just focus on spending your chrono and building probes.
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On July 13 2012 01:35 stardin wrote:Show nested quote +Hello, I am Rank 2 in Europe in Master League currently, but I have a problem concerning Terran where I don´t see any proper solution. It´s Protoss against AIR Terran (Banshee, Raven, Viking, Medivac Bio Drops) starting off with Tanks to defend their 2 Base and inbase 3rd CC. I have seen every active featured Protoss Stream (desrow, Real, Incontrol, Grubby, Feast etc.) and they most of the the time didn´t play against this or if they did they tried weird stuff like: Phenix Void Ray, Stalker Colossi, High Templar Blink Stalker, Warpprism Zealot Drops and a lot of expanding or other stuff, but most of the time they simply died, because even Colossi die to 5-6 tanks and mass cloaked banshees. You need observers to see the banshees, but Terran will Scan all day to snipe every observer. You also need Templars to feedback the banshees and Stalkers, Colossi, Immortals to deal enough damage. However, even if you have 2/2 like I had and your Terran enemy only 1/0 or not even upgrades, their composition is just too powerful. I am not saying this is a balance problem, because I have a high winrate against Terrans, but not against AIR Terran. Please post some VODS/Replays of high level play (Grandmaster-High Masters), where Protoss wins and the Terran was not playing bad and did a similar playstyle to my game http://drop.sc/219100. Thanks! Hi, i watched your replay and i was having the same problem against this build. I think you should opt for 2 mains things to change: 1. Either earlier robo for scouting, or hallucinated phoenix, so you know if its gonna be a tech lab on that star port or not. 2. Different tech path - Colossi are quite useless against this build because they take a lot of supply and gas, and they dont provide an answer to the Banshees. Stalkers are not a good answer to a lot of Banshees even though they seem like the natural response. Banshees just take them too easily, and the Siege Tanks as well. I found the best tech path to deal with this build is having a Robo mainly for Observers, since Immortals won't shoot air and are not useful against Marines. And once Banshees are scouted immediately go for Templar tech. The reason for this is: 1. Archons, soak up a lot of damage, very good against marines, and shoot air with some splash. Much better gas investment than Colossi. 2. Feed back, great to deal with Banshees and Ravens. 3. Storm, great to deal with banshees since they are usually clumped up, and after a few feedbacks they would be injured, and great against Marines as well. Make sure you have around 3-5 observers at least, since the ravens easily spot them and you should always have at least 2 as back up. Also a bit off topic but i would suggest not taking hidden expansions unless you are behind (which you weren't).
Thanks <3
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How do you guys react to a scan going down just when your robo bay is finished?
I feel like the strength of colossi is hitting the terran before they've massed up vikings and if the spot it right away I feel like the robo bay is wasted since they can easily produce 2xVikings every 42s while a colossus take 75s (-10s x the amount of cb).
So basically, when a terran scouts your robo bay and it's finished - do you double the production with another robo, do you switch tech path, do you continue with the colossi but instead of saving all your gas for colossus, you throw some into stalkers?
Btw, there's no better feeling than cancel a robo bay after scan (at those time when it's building at the time of the scan) and put down a twilight council instead. Facing a bio army with a couple of vikings with your ground army with storm feels so good <3
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On July 13 2012 03:27 NVRLand wrote:
How do you guys react to a scan going down just when your robo bay is finished?
I feel like the strength of colossi is hitting the terran before they've massed up vikings and if the spot it right away I feel like the robo bay is wasted since they can easily produce 2xVikings every 42s while a colossus take 75s (-10s x the amount of cb).
So basically, when a terran scouts your robo bay and it's finished - do you double the production with another robo, do you switch tech path, do you continue with the colossi but instead of saving all your gas for colossus, you throw some into stalkers?
Btw, there's no better feeling than cancel a robo bay after scan (at those time when it's building at the time of the scan) and put down a twilight council instead. Facing a bio army with a couple of vikings with your ground army with storm feels so good <3
If you're a good player, you continue with your original plan. If you're bad and you think about everything as a gimmick you change it.
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EPT
