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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:33 Misuari wrote: Hey TL. Me again . Can anyone tell me a solid and safe opening for PvZ ? Cant seem to open safely to zergs. FFE, 14 forge 16 Nexi. Is really safe openning Follow-up is your call. Or you wanted some other safe oppenning, rather than FFE? Then 2 gate sentry FE. P.s. scout4safe. | ||
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Misuari
Singapore45 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:41 TheExodus wrote: Pretty much no matter what opening you do it's safe against zerg. What do you have problems with, specifically? I did a few openings . MC's 1Gate Expand , but kinda struggle to early ling and roach rush . Also did 2 Gate Robo expand . Kinda struggle , but not that much . | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:50 Misuari wrote: I did a few openings . MC's 1Gate Expand , but kinda struggle to early ling and roach rush . Also did 2 Gate Robo expand . Kinda struggle , but not that much . Both of those are PvT builds not PvZ builds. edit: you are welcome ^_^ | ||
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Misuari
Singapore45 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:41 Teoita wrote: Forge fast expand works well. A safe way (not too economical, but still decent) is to go 14 forge 17 nexus 17 gate 17 cannon 17 pylon; with your probe you should scout for the timing on his third and his gas. If he takes no gas past about 4 minutes you can rule out a bust or 2base play; at this time his third hatch should also go down. If he does take gas just for speed, the third hatch should be down at around 6 minutes. If he takes gas, chrono out a zealot and go scout with it while making a second cannon; make sure to have probe on hold position to close your wall if you didn't do it fully so he doesn't randomly sneak lings into your base. Regarding followups, there's plenty of good threads about them around these forums  Ahhh that seems much better. Thanks again man! | ||
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Misuari
Singapore45 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:42 Rimak wrote: FFE, 14 forge 16 Nexi. Is really safe openning Follow-up is your call. Or you wanted some other safe oppenning, rather than FFE? Then 2 gate sentry FE. P.s. scout4safe. Thanks man. Will give it a go | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:50 Misuari wrote: I did a few openings . MC's 1Gate Expand , but kinda struggle to early ling and roach rush . Also did 2 Gate Robo expand . Kinda struggle , but not that much . Well heh yeah, those are unsafe against zerg as they're PvT openings Either a forge fast expand or a 2-3 gate sentry expand is what you'll want to do. | ||
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Misuari
Singapore45 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:53 TheExodus wrote: Well heh yeah, those are unsafe against zerg as they're PvT openings Either a forge fast expand or a 2-3 gate sentry expand is what you'll want to do.yeah will do. and you said any opening was safe :p edit : thanks btw! :D | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:59 Salient wrote: What is the proper response when you are forge fast expanding and you scout a very early pool? Assume 9 pylon scout finds zerg's base second on entombed and that you placed the forge at 13. Do you abandon the forge and pylon, and quickly make a pylon and cannon in your mineral line? Are you ahead or behind if he destroys your forge and pylon and then just transitions to macro? You can temporarily block off completely using a gateway or something that you cancel before it finishes building. I think that's much easier and more effective than cannoning your mineral line. | ||
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o Griffin o
United States2 Posts
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:59 Salient wrote: What is the proper response when you are forge fast expanding and you scout a very early pool? Assume 9 pylon scout finds zerg's base second on entombed and that you placed the forge at 13. Do you abandon the forge and pylon, and quickly make a pylon and cannon in your mineral line? Are you ahead or behind if he destroys your forge and pylon and then just transitions to macro? FFE on entombed is risky, yes. Cut probes. Forge ASAP (13-14) -> Gateway -> Cannon -> Pylon and save up 150 minerals to block off with temporary gate (then replace with core). Nexus after core will put you ahead, but is risky to possible 1 base BB. On June 18 2012 22:14 o Griffin o wrote: Ok another question then, against a Zerg I am having trouble determining when is the best time to pressure. What I believe to be standard is 4 gate pressure after +1 then go into robo or twilight depending on what I scout in the push? That type of build is obviously dependent on the upgrade timing and my ability to secure a proxy pylon, however I want to know around what time should this hit and at what time should I start a follow up push to secure my third(10min?) Your 4gate+1 out of FFE should hit when WG and +1 finishes (obvious). The more you pressure the zerg, the more he is forced to make defensive units, instead of drones. You should Shark-mode him, with taking minimal loses. Securing third is actually up to you, 10-12 minutes is okay, 14 minutes is late, 8-10 minutes - early (would not reccomend with pressure build). Right now the safest thing for a fast third is SaSe's 5gate sentry-immortal expand (IMO). 4 gate +1 is weaker against 12 minutes max-out if haven't been able to do some damage. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On June 18 2012 22:14 o Griffin o wrote: Ok another question then, against a Zerg I am having trouble determining when is the best time to pressure. What I believe to be standard is 4 gate pressure after +1 then go into robo or twilight depending on what I scout in the push? That type of build is obviously dependent on the upgrade timing and my ability to secure a proxy pylon, however I want to know around what time should this hit and at what time should I start a follow up push to secure my third(10min?) That depends heavily on what build you are doing. For gateway pressure like +1 zealots, your first warp in should be at around 7.30-8.00 minutes. A 6-7 gate hits a bit later, around 8.30 ish. These days it's a bit more common to take a more passive third to be safe vs a roach max; sometimes you will posture around the map and fake an allin but p doesn't really push while taking a 3rd anymore because around that time (10 minutes) zerg will already be in full unit mode anyway most of the time. See this thread for more on macro pvz: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905 | ||
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-Kira
352 Posts
On June 18 2012 22:14 o Griffin o wrote: Ok another question then, against a Zerg I am having trouble determining when is the best time to pressure. What I believe to be standard is 4 gate pressure after +1 then go into robo or twilight depending on what I scout in the push? That type of build is obviously dependent on the upgrade timing and my ability to secure a proxy pylon, however I want to know around what time should this hit and at what time should I start a follow up push to secure my third(10min?) Before zerg gets full saturation on all bases it's always good to preassure. Preassure, but not commit to the attack. If you can macro while safely moving out with units to force zerg into making units before they're at 80 drones then it's always good. | ||
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pestilenz
Denmark379 Posts
I noticed that some pro-players halt probe production on two bases (obviously when they all-in), when they cannot seem to get a third base up as early as they would like, and then continue when they can get it. I like the idea of this. Halt for more tech and unit production, and then continue econ later. My question now is when it would be optimal to stop production. I know that 16+6 is one base, but a bit more would be okay too right? Maybe even aim for 24+6 to have more to transfer to the third? Along with this I would like to know from more experienced players how they pull off getting an early third against terran and then continue teching against charge&templar. I can almost make it work 50% of the time. but I really have trouble with if I should go double forge or just one? And when to start teching to templar. Do people who does this have some kind of timer as to when they put down the templar archives, or is it something people just have a feel for, which means that I should just continue playing around with it until I get it? thx in advance. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On June 19 2012 01:12 pestilenz wrote: So... I have been wondering about how I should manage my economy in all my match-ups. I noticed that some pro-players halt probe production on two bases (obviously when they all-in), when they cannot seem to get a third base up as early as they would like, and then continue when they can get it. I like the idea of this. Halt for more tech and unit production, and then continue econ later. My question now is when it would be optimal to stop production. I know that 16+6 is one base, but a bit more would be okay too right? Maybe even aim for 24+6 to have more to transfer to the third? Along with this I would like to know from more experienced players how they pull off getting an early third against terran and then continue teching against charge&templar. I can almost make it work 50% of the time. but I really have trouble with if I should go double forge or just one? And when to start teching to templar. Do people who does this have some kind of timer as to when they put down the templar archives, or is it something people just have a feel for, which means that I should just continue playing around with it until I get it? thx in advance. Regarding your PvT question, try http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=312133. I am not sure when to get the templar archives since i usually get it on 2bases, but it sounds reasonable to do it when you hold off his 2medivac timing (or if it just doesn't come). If you wanna play safe morth the first few templar into archons and delay storm a bit. Generally a fast 3base protoss will be forced to invest a lot in pure gateway units early on, so it's common to go double forge but delay them a bit (around 10 minutes, again sligthly past the first medivac timing). | ||
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Sovano
United States1503 Posts
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nixis
United States42 Posts
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-468-p1-huk-and-sase-fantastic-pvt-openings-6162409 edit: For grammatical mistakes. | ||
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Smancer
United States379 Posts
On June 19 2012 01:49 Sovano wrote: I've been facing more comptentant Terrans lately, and most of them are utilizing e-bays to block my 1 gate FE. Sometimes they do it before scouting, and sometimes they do it after scouting (building the e-bay that is). I usually skip zealot and go for stalker first. Is my best bet just to have a probe out at my natural to prevent this or building that first zealot always? Not sure what the pros do but I know when I try to pylon block a zerg, they bring a second drone to chase my probe. Then the first drone is free to make a hatch. Thus, you can try just brining a second probe off the line to chase the SCV while your first probe places down the nexus. | ||
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Drowzee
40 Posts
i am struggling against a specific zerg strategy. i open FFE against zerg and go for zealot then sentry. but zerg can pull off a baneling bust that hits at 7:30. at that time i have 1 zealot and 1 sentry and warpgate isn't ready yet. obviously i lose everytime against that. 1. how to scout that he is going for baneling bust? what signs tell me a baneling bust is coming, instead of a roach ling allin or instead of a "standard" game? 2. how to react when you know that a baneling bust is coming? could it be possible to have 2 sentries at that time with FFE? how many cannons to add? chrono boost only on sentries? should i do a full walloff instead of a zealot-walloff? i appreciate any help | ||
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
On June 19 2012 03:33 Drowzee wrote: diamond toss here. i am struggling against a specific zerg strategy. i open FFE against zerg and go for zealot then sentry. but zerg can pull off a baneling bust that hits at 7:30. at that time i have 1 zealot and 1 sentry and warpgate isn't ready yet. obviously i lose everytime against that. 1. how to scout that he is going for baneling bust? what signs tell me a baneling bust is coming, instead of a roach ling allin or instead of a "standard" game? 2. how to react when you know that a baneling bust is coming? could it be possible to have 2 sentries at that time with FFE? how many cannons to add? chrono boost only on sentries? should i do a full walloff instead of a zealot-walloff? i appreciate any help The best tells are no third by 5 minutes and the zerg is still mining gas. You'll probably not see the continued gas, but you can scout either the lack of a third or a large amount of lings. The moment you suspect that a third is missing you have to put 2 more cannons and chrono sentries. Since you are on equal bases to the zerg you are ahead, you just need to survive. | ||
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