EPTQuick question on TvP, when is a good time to take my third? I am going for a normal dual forge collsi/gateway build, and Ive been trying to take a relative quick third but in the mid game that's where Terran shines. What kind of ups/collsi am I looking at to have to take a third in this MU?
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 264
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
Quick question on TvP, when is a good time to take my third? I am going for a normal dual forge collsi/gateway build, and Ive been trying to take a relative quick third but in the mid game that's where Terran shines. What kind of ups/collsi am I looking at to have to take a third in this MU? | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
On June 19 2012 04:37 Teoita wrote: If you go double forge, usually it's right around 12-13 minutes when you have your first few colossi. That's around where I get it, but mostly when blink and thermal lance finish which is where I feel more comfortable vs drops/pressure. Or should I switch it up? | ||
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Abusion
United Kingdom184 Posts
On June 19 2012 04:55 Mikelius wrote: That's around where I get it, but mostly when blink and thermal lance finish which is where I feel more comfortable vs drops/pressure. Or should I switch it up? get it when you feel most comfortable. If you're ahead on upgrades and tech you should feel comfortable taking a later third base with that advantage and pushing the tech advantage later in the game. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On June 19 2012 04:55 Mikelius wrote: That's around where I get it, but mostly when blink and thermal lance finish which is where I feel more comfortable vs drops/pressure. Or should I switch it up? Sounds reasonable. Double forge basically trades a late third and a bit of econ for a sick timing around 16-17 minutes into the game when you have 3/3 and terran is on 2/2 (and a great lategame overall), so it's yeah that makes sense. | ||
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SkyBlaze
Canada191 Posts
On June 19 2012 05:02 Teoita wrote: Sounds reasonable. Double forge basically trades a late third and a bit of econ for a sick timing around 16-17 minutes into the game when you have 3/3 and terran is on 2/2 (and a great lategame overall), so it's yeah that makes sense. Fair warning though taking a late 3rd is fine if the terran your facing is really in your face but if he's going to late game as well like taking a quick third for himself(making 3rd CC in base). You should play more greedy in example, getting a 3rd faster I bet most of you already knew that. | ||
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Abusion
United Kingdom184 Posts
On June 19 2012 06:21 SkyBlaze wrote: Fair warning though taking a late 3rd is fine if the terran your facing is really in your face but if he's going to late game as well like taking a quick third for himself(making 3rd CC in base). You should play more greedy in example, getting a 3rd faster I bet most of you already knew that. if a terran keeps pressuring once blink and thermal lance are out he's just gunna die  | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On June 19 2012 06:21 SkyBlaze wrote: Fair warning though taking a late 3rd is fine if the terran your facing is really in your face but if he's going to late game as well like taking a quick third for himself(making 3rd CC in base). You should play more greedy in example, getting a 3rd faster I bet most of you already knew that. Well of course, many colossus double forge builds are so good because the fast obs they get from the 3gate robo opening allows you to play reactively. I should have said, it's fine to have a slightly slow third if terran does super standard 1rax fe, 3 rax, fact/medivacs, single eng bay, 3rd cc into 5rax with a medivac timing to put pressure on | ||
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Saeldran
Spain11 Posts
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Unicycle
Switzerland3 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
A read through these threads should help: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343 Apollo had a decent tutorial on learning Protoss too, search for it on youtube. Edit/ Here is part one: Also, look up Day 9 - his early stuff, I think is particularly good for new players. In particular, Day9 episode 252 (IIRC) and day9 episode 184 (the first noobie Tuesday?). If I have the episode right, the last 10 minutes is particularly instructive as he shows how effective just making probes and not getting supply blocked can be. Good luck! | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 19 2012 09:07 Saeldran wrote: I just got promoted to silver and I'm struggling PvT. The fact is that in silver league there's A LOT of Terrans, and they just crush me by either 3 raxing or going 1 rax FE and winning in the mid-game. Any advices, basic build orders or anything that could help me? Thanks. Standard opening against T is 1-gate FE. I like MCs take on it, where you get out a zealot and a stalker, start another stalker and cut probes at 30 to get nexus and two more gates up. Search for MC 1 gate FE here for a great guide. It will hold just about anything a terran can throw at you while setting you up great for the mid-game. Also search for creatorprime pvt to figure out a great way of playing after the opening. Don't forget that you can pull probes to defend. Do that before your units start dying, and warp in units continously. Don't get too many stalkers (very common mistake) as you'll need zealots for tanking. | ||
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Xaldarian
Netherlands65 Posts
On June 19 2012 09:07 Saeldran wrote: I just got promoted to silver and I'm struggling PvT. The fact is that in silver league there's A LOT of Terrans, and they just crush me by either 3 raxing or going 1 rax FE and winning in the mid-game. Any advices, basic build orders or anything that could help me? Thanks. The parting FE is very powerful vs both those builds. Search for it and win a lot. Safe vs 2 rax and 3 rax if you pull probes correctly. More economical than a 1rax expand. Edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341631 | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 19 2012 16:17 Xaldarian wrote: The parting FE is very powerful vs both those builds. Search for it and win a lot. Safe vs 2 rax and 3 rax if you pull probes correctly. More economical than a 1rax expand. Edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341631 Parting's FE is very risky, it requires control, understanding of scouting etc. to be safe. I would not reccomend to learn this build first. IMO Bronze - 3 gate exp into 8 gate only stalkers. Silver - 2 gate robo exp into 5 gate robo Gold-Plat - MC's 1 gate FE Diamond - Same or Parting's FE or Nexus first | ||
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Malhavoc
Italy308 Posts
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 19 2012 18:35 Malhavoc wrote: I FFE and Zerg goes Hatchery first. Which is the best way to punish that? I usually put a pylon + cannon just outside their natural mineral line, in a spot where drones/lings can't surround well enough, but if the opponent is decent and scouts that with an overlord while pylon is still warping, and pulls drones, I have an hard time microing that. Am I just bad at microing or should I go for another punishing option? Like walling him in with 3 pylons + 1/2 cannons? I fear that now, with the increased ground range of queens, those wall offs may now resist for long, and are quite expensive too... There is a nice trick about hatch first. (no sure if it's worth it though) After scouting no early pool i go down to Nat and put a pylon-block and if i find a pool building - i cancel the pylon, if no pool - than let it finish, and usually zerg will go and try to put a "third" down, but guess what - there is no overlord over third, so you can cannon it with pylon and 2 cannons. But now i don't really do that often, cuz a probe at natural will delay hatch just perfectly for me to go Nexus first. TL;DR If there is no overlord over hatch - cannon it, also check if there is overlord over third. Going nexus first is also a very nice option. It's not going to really punish zerg, but it will delay his eco. To be absolutely clear - most convinient way to punish zerg going hatch first out of FFE - cannon rush. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 19 2012 18:35 Malhavoc wrote: I FFE and Zerg goes Hatchery first. Which is the best way to punish that? I usually put a pylon + cannon just outside their natural mineral line, in a spot where drones/lings can't surround well enough, but if the opponent is decent and scouts that with an overlord while pylon is still warping, and pulls drones, I have an hard time microing that. Am I just bad at microing or should I go for another punishing option? Like walling him in with 3 pylons + 1/2 cannons? I fear that now, with the increased ground range of queens, those wall offs may now resist for long, and are quite expensive too... Hatch first is the natural response to FFE, and as they're responding correctly there isn't much you can do about it. I've been playing with the idea of delaying my cannon even more than usual, instead giving me the option to get out more units earlier so I can actually apply some pressure with a FFE, but I haven't gotten around to trying it due to travel and not enough playtime. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Smancer
United States379 Posts
Edit... Versus Zerg. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 19 2012 21:24 Smancer wrote: Is it viable to do a FEE into double stargate? If I am all-ining off two bases with double stargates, how many extra gates can I throw down along with it? When do I put down the gates? Anyone have a detailed build? Edit... Versus Zerg. If you're not scouted it's viable. If you're on two saturated bases and build mainly phoenix/VR you could probably get 5 gates or so up as well. | ||
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