I've been having trouble against terran lately, and I recently played a game which exemplifies my struggles to a large degree. I just feel extremely vulnerable against bio pushes in the midgame. I open fast colossi with a single forge initially, and I feel like I deflected his initial medivac push fairly well. I keep producing colossi (stopping at three) while adding on a second forge and twilight council, hoping to switch into templar fairly soon, but stay on 2 bases because the terran still has his army in the middle of the map. The terran's response to me deflecting his initial pressure is to make a bunch of vikings and marauders and come kill me. Some notable mistakes I noticed were that I got supply blocked a couple times and my third colossus was late, and didn't do much in the final engagement, but I'm not sure if those are the main reasons I lost. I feel like I maybe should have moved out on the map after a couple of colossi and attempted a bit of pressure behind taking my third before his viking count became problematic. I'm also thinking my archives/charge might have been slow. I'm not entirely sure. What seem to be the main reasons that I lost this game? Thanks in advance.
Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/201083 (sorry for the slight BM, I was kind of on tilt at the time)
On June 20 2012 23:13 Avean wrote: I hope anyone can take a look at this replay and give me some tips. Its platinum league and facing an almost 200 roach zerg at 12 min mark. I scouted throughout the match that he was going for a 3 base push, thats what my mind was thinking all the time so i was prepared for it. I spent all my money and chrono but i could not hold this.
Key moments in replay: 12:31. He is at 184 supply vs me at 106 supply. I am at 75 minerals spending like crazy and he is at 625. We are similar in workers btw but he is over double my army supply.
So even though i felt i was doing everything just perfect it obviously wasnt. What should i have done ? Pushed early ? Gone 2 robo and pumped immortals .... its the only two solutions i can think of.
First, I think you're either underestimating your opponent's economy, or you're overestimating your own. When you state "We are similar in workers", that's technically correct... but only at 12:31 (directly after he's thrown down six spores btw).
Minute 7.00: 29 probes/37 drones Minute 8.00: 33 probes/50 drones (You have 3 probes mining minerals at your expansion... he has 13 at his third!) Minute 9.00: 37 probes/64 drones
To put it bluntly, he has twice your income for a good part of that game.
Secondly, you play very passively, which allows your opponent to get away with a fairly greedy style. You delay your expansion for a quicker wall-off, even though his pool is late, which gives him a headstart on his double expansion. Until approximately the 9th minute, he has exactly four zerglings - all his larvae go into drones... and rightfully so, since he's under no pressure at all: He has a good view of your front and knows that you are fully walled in, he has a zergling at your third, and another one at your watchtower; if that doesn't put him in his comfort zone, I don't know what will.
These are, in my opinon, the major issues here. If I were to give advice for future games, I'd ask you to keep an eye on your probe production and to try to apply (or at least fake) some pressure against a zerg opponent.
PvT thor's-banshees-raven wtf terran playing it how beat this, i'm just in shock right now ;d
I got done by this the other day, i felt like i was in the lead the whole time (by that i mean taking very little damage from the banchees) then 2 thors a ravan some hellions and all his scvs where at my front door, felt unstoppable =(
I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Thanks
Can't say I like it that much... Where's the robo? It must be in there, but when?
Getting the 2nd gas before the extra gateways seems a bit over the top, and 3 extra gates straight away too.
Try dropping 2 gates after expanding and get the 2nd gas at the same time as the robo. Then fairly quickly natural gasses, 2 forges, when upgrades are at 50% or so (chronoed) twilight and bay.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Hm, then I'm confused. Do you have some info on it Monk? Or is it some secret PvT style noone should know about? XD
Zealot-Stalker-expansion really feels like Mc's fe. And yea I now see it's not CreatorPrime PvT, he gets robobay before natural gases, which is very early, like 8:00 or so. Oh wait, he says robo bay, but when is robotics? Or is it robotics?
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Hm, then I'm confused. Do you have some info on it Monk? Or is it some secret PvT style noone should know about? XD
Well, there's like an infinite number of builds that don't have names. That particular one is a somewhat standard version 1 gate fe(not MC) into a somewhat standard colossi build, except with 5 gates instead of 6(standard). The colossi build used to be very popular, used by players like Genius, but has recently fallen off a lot.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Hm, then I'm confused. Do you have some info on it Monk? Or is it some secret PvT style noone should know about? XD
Zealot-Stalker-expansion really feels like Mc's fe. And yea I now see it's not CreatorPrime PvT, he gets robobay before natural gases, which is very early, like 8:00 or so
MC's expand gets 2 stalkers before nexus and 3 gates before extra tech and robo, Creator goes double forge before gates and then colossus.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Hm, then I'm confused. Do you have some info on it Monk? Or is it some secret PvT style noone should know about? XD
Well, there's like an infinite number of builds that don't have names. That particular one is a somewhat standard version 1 gate fe(not MC) into a somewhat standard colossi build, except with 5 gates instead of 6(standard). The colossi build used to be very popular, used by players like Genius, but has recently fallen off a lot.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Hm, then I'm confused. Do you have some info on it Monk? Or is it some secret PvT style noone should know about? XD
Well, there's like an infinite number of builds that don't have names. That particular one is a somewhat standard version 1 gate fe(not MC) into a somewhat standard colossi build, except with 5 gates instead of 6(standard). The colossi build used to be very popular, used by players like Genius, but has recently fallen off a lot.
Oh, okay now i get it. Thank you for explaining.
2Teoita Thank you too.
Note: Need to deeply study both.
They're both quite simple to learn really, the only thing that requires a bit of practice is determining when to drop the robo; during the probe cut at 30 food, or at 35ish.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Hm, then I'm confused. Do you have some info on it Monk? Or is it some secret PvT style noone should know about? XD
Well, there's like an infinite number of builds that don't have names. That particular one is a somewhat standard version 1 gate fe(not MC) into a somewhat standard colossi build, except with 5 gates instead of 6(standard). The colossi build used to be very popular, used by players like Genius, but has recently fallen off a lot.
Oh, okay now i get it. Thank you for explaining.
2Teoita Thank you too.
Note: Need to deeply study both.
They're both quite simple to learn really, the only thing that requires a bit of practice is determining when to drop the robo; during the probe cut at 30 food, or at 35ish.
I don't actually use CreatorPrime PvT, so maybe i should.
MC's fe i do use quite a lot, though i somehow missed the second stalker before expanson and go Zealot-Stalker-Sentry-Expand.
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Hm, then I'm confused. Do you have some info on it Monk? Or is it some secret PvT style noone should know about? XD
Well, there's like an infinite number of builds that don't have names. That particular one is a somewhat standard version 1 gate fe(not MC) into a somewhat standard colossi build, except with 5 gates instead of 6(standard). The colossi build used to be very popular, used by players like Genius, but has recently fallen off a lot.
Oh, okay now i get it. Thank you for explaining.
2Teoita Thank you too.
Note: Need to deeply study both.
They're both quite simple to learn really, the only thing that requires a bit of practice is determining when to drop the robo; during the probe cut at 30 food, or at 35ish.
I don't actually use CreatorPrime PvT, so maybe i should.
MC's fe i do use quite a lot, though i somehow missed the second stalker before expanson and go Zealot-Stalker-Sentry-Expand.
That second stalker is a lot more use early game as it allows for both great map control and the possibility to harass. Once your gates are up 4 sentries are great to warp in straight away, as 4 fully charged sentries are awesome to have around, but a single sentry before that isn't that useful
On June 21 2012 14:17 Zenbrez wrote: I just received a little coaching session from somebody, to help me on my pvt. I'm low masters, and basically I don't use builds. I wing everything. So he gave me a build order without any timings/food indicators, so it's more or a pathway for me to follow (as opposed to dropping buildings whenever I feel like it).
Here was his suggestion:
Gateway > Cyber > Zealot > stalker > Expansion > 2nd main gas > 3 gateways > Robo Bay > Natural gases > 5 gateways > Double forge > Twilight
I'm wondering if someone that is familiar with this build could make it a bit more detailed for me by adding food counts and whatnot, when exactly do I drop the nexus, gateways, do I ever cut probes, etc.
Hm, then I'm confused. Do you have some info on it Monk? Or is it some secret PvT style noone should know about? XD
Well, there's like an infinite number of builds that don't have names. That particular one is a somewhat standard version 1 gate fe(not MC) into a somewhat standard colossi build, except with 5 gates instead of 6(standard). The colossi build used to be very popular, used by players like Genius, but has recently fallen off a lot.
Oh, okay now i get it. Thank you for explaining.
2Teoita Thank you too.
Note: Need to deeply study both.
They're both quite simple to learn really, the only thing that requires a bit of practice is determining when to drop the robo; during the probe cut at 30 food, or at 35ish.
I don't actually use CreatorPrime PvT, so maybe i should.
MC's fe i do use quite a lot, though i somehow missed the second stalker before expanson and go Zealot-Stalker-Sentry-Expand.
That second stalker is a lot more use early game as it allows for both great map control and the possibility to harass. Once your gates are up 4 sentries are great to warp in straight away, as 4 fully charged sentries are awesome to have around, but a single sentry before that isn't that useful
Y, now i see how i lost to some 2racks a while ago.
I am so at a loss against stephano roach build. Everyone is doing it from zerg and even though i have +2 upgrades and they have none they overwhelm me. What do you guys do to counter it ? Pump immortals from 2 robo ? Its the only thing i can imagine working. Its not enough time to get storm or enough colossus.
And the crazy thing is they are expanding to a 4th and 5th while doing this attack, and this is platinum players ........
On June 21 2012 18:39 Avean wrote: I am so at a loss against stephano roach build. Everyone is doing it from zerg and even though i have +2 upgrades and they have none they overwhelm me. What do you guys do to counter it ? Pump immortals from 2 robo ? Its the only thing i can imagine working. Its not enough time to get storm or enough colossus.
And the crazy thing is they are expanding to a 4th and 5th while doing this attack, and this is platinum players ........
From what i can find:
CreatorPrime vs CheckSixSleep in IPL fight club. You should see all the games. Creator usually plays heavy macro game, you can see some ideas there.
Very nice is SaSe's setry-immortal into third. He really destroyed zergs there.
EPT
