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Ryndika
1489 Posts
http://drop.sc/147612 My gameplan was +1 zealot timing to interrupt droning then go sentry stalker immortal composition and take my 3rd then tech hightemplars. Here is another game vs same player, I happened to win but I feel like I might have been lucky. http://drop.sc/147613 I also could use the ramp on that map but what about map like shakuras plateau? Am I forced to do some kind of allin or what plays there is that involves taking 3rd at some point? | ||
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Protossking
Australia103 Posts
On March 29 2012 20:48 NrGmonk wrote: Check out Genius vs Nestea from the last GSL on talderim for a good example of how to deal with it. i think u mean entombed but yeah that was what i was looking for... so it seems stargate is the answer to transition against a 6pool. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On March 29 2012 08:30 _NIx_ wrote: Is there a write-up on good "standard" play PvP? if not, could someone point me towards a style that works well for them? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249638 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=296637 First one being the best imo. All those builds are pretty hard to pull off though. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 29 2012 21:07 Protossking wrote: i think u mean entombed but yeah that was what i was looking for... so it seems stargate is the answer to transition against a 6pool. Stargate is a good answer. Think of it this way: Usually when you go stargate (just one), zerg responds by adding on a little bit of defense (spore at each base, couple extra queens) while spamming drones to make up for and pass the damage taken from the air, so they come out ahead in the end. However, zerg at this time is at an economic disadvantage compared to normal because of the investment in the rush, and has to be worried about a gateway push, so they have to be prepared to deal with ground forces as well. This means the defenses they have to build to deal with the stargate will be a bigger investment for them then it normally is. In addition, the stargate play makes taking your natural much easier as it gives you map control and scouting, and allows you to defend much easier vs. a roach/ling all-in. Other options include doing a normal 3 gate sentry expand, which would put you ahead of where you'd normally be with such an expand (since you have a probe lead compared to where you'd be in a normal game). Blink/high templar is definitely viable and effective vs. mass muta, but it requires that you be incredibly on top of your storms. You can't let his mutas fly into your base and snipe the templar before storms get off, you need 5-6 cannons and 1-2 high templar at each base against mass muta. That alone, if you control properly, kills off the basetrade option for zerg, and your stalker/templar army can have his way with his bases. | ||
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Scheefe
Netherlands226 Posts
Can anyone please tell me the most up-to-date 3gate expand build order, somehow i dont trust the liquipedia one. Basicly im just asking for safe macro based openings against all the matchups. Ta! | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
On March 30 2012 08:23 Scheefe wrote: Trying to pick up sc2 after a long break again. This time playing protoss, used to play zerg. Can anyone please tell me the most up-to-date 3gate expand build order, somehow i dont trust the liquipedia one. Basicly im just asking for safe macro based openings against all the matchups. Ta! Search function amigo; But you get this one for free  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 | ||
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stabbyjo
United Kingdom1 Post
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Scheefe
Netherlands226 Posts
On March 30 2012 08:36 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: Search function amigo; But you get this one for free http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 I've seen these, thought those are outdated. Guess I'll make due. | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
On March 30 2012 17:58 Scheefe wrote: I've seen these, thought those are outdated. Guess I'll make due. The post may be old, but those strategies are by no means archaic; except 3 gate expo in PvZ, FFE is superior in almost every way (though I'm sure NonY and Hwangsin would debate that) except the level of execution it requires to be successful versus cheese (which is significantly lower for 3 gate expo). For a starting Protoss they are just fine. | ||
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Scheefe
Netherlands226 Posts
On March 30 2012 18:51 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: The post may be old, but those strategies are by no means archaic; except 3 gate expo in PvZ, FFE is superior in almost every way (though I'm sure NonY and Hwangsin would debate that) except the level of execution it requires to be successful versus cheese (which is significantly lower for 3 gate expo). For a starting Protoss they are just fine. My execution and control is very good, would you suggest me to 3gate exp/robo or just 2gate robo? Against terran that is. | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
On March 31 2012 00:12 Scheefe wrote: My execution and control is very good, would you suggest me to 3gate exp/robo or just 2gate robo? Against terran that is. 2 gate, 3 gates and a robo is excessive, when you have two you get a mineral build up that you can use to expand. Oh and if you didn't already know, the first unit out of the robo should be an obs--unless you are getting attacked and need the immortal asap--also if you can, skip the immortal to put down an earlier nexus (if you feel safe doing so). | ||
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Hakanfrog
Sweden690 Posts
On March 31 2012 00:12 Scheefe wrote: My execution and control is very good, would you suggest me to 3gate exp/robo or just 2gate robo? Against terran that is. If your execution and control is good then 1gate expand is probablly the best: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136 It´s safe vs pretty much everything if you scout properly and doesn´t put you behind vs 1rax expand builds. | ||
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HenryKun
United States3 Posts
6 Pool. Don't understand when I am able to pressure or how to survive the roaches that follow http://drop.sc/148378 http://drop.sc/148379 | ||
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Payson
United States394 Posts
Is this a viable option to do in early game PvT? Some people may say the 75 mineral investment is needed too much in the early game, but as someone that has trouble dealing with 1-1-1, it seems like a solid option so I can sort of force the Terran into something different he may not be comfortable with and change up his gameplan early on. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
On March 31 2012 11:50 Payson wrote: Diamond Protoss here, looking for some advice from higher level players on something I've seen higher level players do in PvT as of late. When you scout the terran and see them opening with a gas, a typical response is that one of the following is very likely (2rax, 1-1-1, some form of 3rax all-in, reaper expand, or some funky off the wall build). I've seen players as of late take the 2nd gas of the Terran to if needed, delay 1-1-1. Is this a viable option to do in early game PvT? Some people may say the 75 mineral investment is needed too much in the early game, but as someone that has trouble dealing with 1-1-1, it seems like a solid option so I can sort of force the Terran into something different he may not be comfortable with and change up his gameplan early on. Yeah stealing a gas for 75 minerals will offset their build more than yours; because they need that gas income more than you need your 75 minerals. Though there is also a chance that they will get their gas stolen, and just do a 1 gas build, and all your 75 minerals did was prevent 2 gas builds from happening. Honestly I think its just better to learn how to defend those builds, because if you just steal gas then the amount of times you face those builds will decrease, and so your level of practice at defending those builds will be significantly lower; which is a bad thing for you, because avoid these builds (especially on ladder), so when you play a game where you can't get the gas steal you'll be in trouble. | ||
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whistle
United States141 Posts
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Tyrek
12 Posts
tl dr: are the only two ways to prevent basetrade either recall or killing his army on my side of the map, then going for his bases? | ||
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CommanchyWattkins
Canada117 Posts
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
On March 31 2012 12:04 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: Yeah stealing a gas for 75 minerals will offset their build more than yours; because they need that gas income more than you need your 75 minerals. Though there is also a chance that they will get their gas stolen, and just do a 1 gas build, and all your 75 minerals did was prevent 2 gas builds from happening. Honestly I think its just better to learn how to defend those builds, because if you just steal gas then the amount of times you face those builds will decrease, and so your level of practice at defending those builds will be significantly lower; which is a bad thing for you, because avoid these builds (especially on ladder), so when you play a game where you can't get the gas steal you'll be in trouble. The 1-1-1actually staggers their gas. I'm not a 100% sure on the timings, but I think they can kill your assimilator and just keep going with their build. The real benefit of stealing the gas is seeing what units they kill it with. If none, they are going for some early attack and can't leave units in their base or an fe. Otherwise, if a marauder is used to kill the assimilator, then you know a 1-1-1 is unlikely or at least being poorly executed and greatly delayed. | ||
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