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On March 04 2012 07:29 snively wrote:
In a PvP, lets say I have pure zealot/collossus and my opponent has pure zealot/archon
is it better for me to focus down his archons, or let my collossi attack his zealots?
Most of the time targetting the Zealots would be he best as they tend to clump a lot. Its just a waste attacking archons with colo, might aswell not build colo and get stalkers if you decide to do that..
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United States7483 Posts
On March 04 2012 07:29 snively wrote:
In a PvP, lets say I have pure zealot/collossus and my opponent has pure zealot/archon
is it better for me to focus down his archons, or let my collossi attack his zealots?
Focus down the zealots, without question. You want to maximize the damage your colossi do: zealots are small and clump well, so good AoE. The Archons are big and take less damage. Also, you want to decrease your enemy's dps as fast as possible: archons die slowly to colossi in comparison to zealots, and killing an archon isn't really more of a dps reduction for your enemy than taking out 3 zealots.
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In PvZ after FFE, what should I be scouting for, how and when?
I usually try some probe sneaking, and then poke with first two zealots, but i dont really know what my scouting timing should be, and what should I look for, besides obvious things as baneling nest or early roach warren, if I somehow manage to get a probe in his main.
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On March 04 2012 07:46 Eladen wrote:
In PvZ after FFE, what should I be scouting for, how and when?
I usually try some probe sneaking, and then poke with first two zealots, but i dont really know what my scouting timing should be, and what should I look for, besides obvious things as baneling nest or early roach warren, if I somehow manage to get a probe in his main.
What you should be looking for would be a third base being there before like 6:00 because if it's not you may be getting all inned. Lots of lings are indicative of speed. Once you scout a has go down it'll be 3 minutes before speed kicks in, so you can scout freely until then. If you scout tons of gas mutas could happen. More gassed on 2 bases means mutas, nydus hydra all in, or Some sort of infestor play. Early 3 bases means hell be late to lair tech and will mostly just be roach ling, otherwise it's too hard All 3 based. Huge numbers of spines almost almost means muta play.
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1494 Posts
On March 04 2012 08:10 SkaPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:46 Eladen wrote:
In PvZ after FFE, what should I be scouting for, how and when?
I usually try some probe sneaking, and then poke with first two zealots, but i dont really know what my scouting timing should be, and what should I look for, besides obvious things as baneling nest or early roach warren, if I somehow manage to get a probe in his main. What you should be looking for would be a third base being there before like 6:00 because if it's not you may be getting all inned. Lots of lings are indicative of speed. Once you scout a has go down it'll be 3 minutes before speed kicks in, so you can scout freely until then. If you scout tons of gas mutas could happen. More gassed on 2 bases means mutas, nydus hydra all in, or Some sort of infestor play. Early 3 bases means hell be late to lair tech and will mostly just be roach ling, otherwise it's too hard All 3 based. Huge numbers of spines almost almost means muta play.
Good post. I'll add also that a lot of lings is usually a sign of either muta or infestor.
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On March 04 2012 08:10 SkaPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:46 Eladen wrote:
In PvZ after FFE, what should I be scouting for, how and when?
I usually try some probe sneaking, and then poke with first two zealots, but i dont really know what my scouting timing should be, and what should I look for, besides obvious things as baneling nest or early roach warren, if I somehow manage to get a probe in his main. What you should be looking for would be a third base being there before like 6:00 because if it's not you may be getting all inned. Lots of lings are indicative of speed. Once you scout a has go down it'll be 3 minutes before speed kicks in, so you can scout freely until then. If you scout tons of gas mutas could happen. More gassed on 2 bases means mutas, nydus hydra all in, or Some sort of infestor play. Early 3 bases means hell be late to lair tech and will mostly just be roach ling, otherwise it's too hard All 3 based. Huge numbers of spines almost almost means muta play.
thanks 
and could you maybe be more specific about recognizing various allins? like bane bust, roachling allin and maybe some others?
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Is what I'm doing unsafe?
When I see a 14ish gas 14ish pool I:
15 Nexus
16 Forge
Then depending on when I see their lings move out I
16-18 pylon
16-18 gateway
16-18 cannon
in that order.
Then keep my probe there
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On March 04 2012 08:22 Eladen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 08:10 SkaPunk wrote:On March 04 2012 07:46 Eladen wrote:
In PvZ after FFE, what should I be scouting for, how and when?
I usually try some probe sneaking, and then poke with first two zealots, but i dont really know what my scouting timing should be, and what should I look for, besides obvious things as baneling nest or early roach warren, if I somehow manage to get a probe in his main. What you should be looking for would be a third base being there before like 6:00 because if it's not you may be getting all inned. Lots of lings are indicative of speed. Once you scout a has go down it'll be 3 minutes before speed kicks in, so you can scout freely until then. If you scout tons of gas mutas could happen. More gassed on 2 bases means mutas, nydus hydra all in, or Some sort of infestor play. Early 3 bases means hell be late to lair tech and will mostly just be roach ling, otherwise it's too hard All 3 based. Huge numbers of spines almost almost means muta play. thanks and could you maybe be more specific about recognizing various allins? like bane bust, roachling allin and maybe some others?
If their 3rd base has not started by 5:15 you need to prepare for something. Scout it between 5:00 and 5:15 as you need to know as soon as possible. If they have started their 3rd base then you are safe and in control of the game (but not always in control of the map).
Additionally, when you scouted their pool timing did they have gas? If they did and mined more than 100 you are going to be attacked.
If they are only on 2 bases then you can expect to be attacked one way or another. Ideally you want to run probes or zealots in to have a look. You probably wont get in to their main, but a look at the natural helps. If they have taken gas at their expansion then they are going two base lair, which is probably mutas but could be nydus.
If they are on 2 bases at 5:15 and have no gas at their natural, then you can expect either a roach or baneling attack to come soon. Try to run into their main and look for the roach warren. How many lings did you see on the way in? More than 6 lings is probably banelings.
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http://drop.sc/125869
PvP, the guy in base proxies me. I pull probes, deny both in base Gateways. He proceeds to just make 2 below ground and 1 more later on. By the time I have tech out, he's just pumping from 3 Gates with similar economy.
Do I even pull my probes or do I let those Gateways finish? Do I tech to Stalkers quicker? Or was that just a micro issue? I could have had maybe 4 Stalkers out, but I don't know if I can kill 3 Gateways pumping Zealots with just 4. Should I have pressed my Zealot advantage, pulled more probes, and dealt with the Gateways belowground? I'm just sort of at a loss.
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On March 04 2012 09:23 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 08:22 Eladen wrote:On March 04 2012 08:10 SkaPunk wrote:On March 04 2012 07:46 Eladen wrote:
In PvZ after FFE, what should I be scouting for, how and when?
I usually try some probe sneaking, and then poke with first two zealots, but i dont really know what my scouting timing should be, and what should I look for, besides obvious things as baneling nest or early roach warren, if I somehow manage to get a probe in his main. What you should be looking for would be a third base being there before like 6:00 because if it's not you may be getting all inned. Lots of lings are indicative of speed. Once you scout a has go down it'll be 3 minutes before speed kicks in, so you can scout freely until then. If you scout tons of gas mutas could happen. More gassed on 2 bases means mutas, nydus hydra all in, or Some sort of infestor play. Early 3 bases means hell be late to lair tech and will mostly just be roach ling, otherwise it's too hard All 3 based. Huge numbers of spines almost almost means muta play. thanks and could you maybe be more specific about recognizing various allins? like bane bust, roachling allin and maybe some others? If their 3rd base has not started by 5:15 you need to prepare for something. Scout it between 5:00 and 5:15 as you need to know as soon as possible. If they have started their 3rd base then you are safe and in control of the game (but not always in control of the map). Additionally, when you scouted their pool timing did they have gas? If they did and mined more than 100 you are going to be attacked. If they are only on 2 bases then you can expect to be attacked one way or another. Ideally you want to run probes or zealots in to have a look. You probably wont get in to their main, but a look at the natural helps. If they have taken gas at their expansion then they are going two base lair, which is probably mutas but could be nydus. If they are on 2 bases at 5:15 and have no gas at their natural, then you can expect either a roach or baneling attack to come soon. Try to run into their main and look for the roach warren. How many lings did you see on the way in? More than 6 lings is probably banelings.
thanks man, its really helpfull
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On March 04 2012 12:05 Supah wrote:http://drop.sc/125869PvP, the guy in base proxies me. I pull probes, deny both in base Gateways. He proceeds to just make 2 below ground and 1 more later on. By the time I have tech out, he's just pumping from 3 Gates with similar economy. Do I even pull my probes or do I let those Gateways finish? Do I tech to Stalkers quicker? Or was that just a micro issue? I could have had maybe 4 Stalkers out, but I don't know if I can kill 3 Gateways pumping Zealots with just 4. Should I have pressed my Zealot advantage, pulled more probes, and dealt with the Gateways belowground? I'm just sort of at a loss.
Pulling probes to deny gates is a little excessive in my opinion. Here's my theory on how to defend this: If your opponent has a generic proxy 2gate in the middle of the map or between the naturals on shakuras or so, you canget away with adding on a later 2nd gate since you he will have to walk from the proxy to your main. This gives you enough time to get an equal amount of zealots out if it goes as planned. However if the proxy is in your main, this distance is close to 0. You pretty much need a forge and cannons if that's the case. You should always be ahead in economy and tech so after the cannon is set up you can just 4gate him.
If you defend with your own 2gate: Don't tech stalkers too quickly or he will overrun you with zealots. If you have an advantage sure you can pressure him as much as possible, since you can just run away and he can't catch you. Just watch out so you don't get stuck in a bad position when his new zealots are done. Additionally if you move forward to check his zealot count every once in a while you can see if he's cutting zealots to tech. This is quite important as you could die to a 4gate follow up. Either you want to be ahead of him by teching off of 2 gates like him but with more eco, or you make 3 gates and pump zealots until he dies.
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On March 04 2012 12:05 Supah wrote:http://drop.sc/125869PvP, the guy in base proxies me. I pull probes, deny both in base Gateways. He proceeds to just make 2 below ground and 1 more later on. By the time I have tech out, he's just pumping from 3 Gates with similar economy. Do I even pull my probes or do I let those Gateways finish? Do I tech to Stalkers quicker? Or was that just a micro issue? I could have had maybe 4 Stalkers out, but I don't know if I can kill 3 Gateways pumping Zealots with just 4. Should I have pressed my Zealot advantage, pulled more probes, and dealt with the Gateways belowground? I'm just sort of at a loss.
Don't pull the probes. Against the proxy gate zealots you have 3 basic options.
1.make a forge and cannons. This option is pretty safe but requires that you scout it relatively quickly. The danger of this option is that your outlying buildings can be picked off, and your opponent feels pretty safe to tech/expand with very few units. If you go for this, consider doing some counter cannon rushing since his zealots are in your base and wont be able to come back fast enough. If you're sneaky, you can win with the cannons. If not, you should at least force him to pull probes to defend.
2.Make your own pair of gates go for similar zealot numbers. This response also requires you scout his proxy, but you are almost certain to be slower with your second gateway anyway. At this point the game becomes pure micro. You focus his weaker zealots while running yours. You should have the advantage here even though your second zealot will be slightly slower because you can pull a few probes if you need them. Your economy is also slightly ahead, so you can eventually add a forge or third gate or start teching slowly. This option forces your opponent to keep making zealots of his own.
3.Get stalkers asap. 1 stalker can theoretically kill infinite zealots. This is also very micro intensive, and you are certain to have fewer units. As a result, you will need to run probes when he separates zealots. Do not let him kill your economy while you micro to kill zealots. You are likely to go for a base trade in this scenario. Your stalker and probes can just run over and kill his base. Then, as his zealots run across the map to kill any buildings you make, your stalker slowly picks them off.
In all of these scenarios, remember that he should never be able to kill your scouting probe. That means you can always see when and if he is transitioning to anything else in his main base. If the scouting probe runs into the proxy, then you don't have to go to his base and can instead come back to mine. However, you should eventually go to his base to see if he ever takes gas and to threaten the cannon rush or proxy pylon 4 gate once you stabilize.
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What's a standard PvP blink/ob opening?
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How the hell do you play the map Korhal Compund LE in high lvl games in the different matchups?
Seriously that map is rediculously hard to play as Protoss. I'm considering downvoting it but I don't like to downvote.
The third is a MILE away, it's impossible to defend heavy drop play or zerg denying your third.
PvZ: All my games revolve around 2-base all-ins, like 7gate or some robo-all-in
PvT: Still havn't figured out the best way to do this when terran plays safe
PvP: not quite as hard as more often than not you don't end up with 3+ bases. If you do, you are on the same level atleast.
EDIT: How could this map ever win a TL contest?
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On March 04 2012 19:27 garsh0p wrote:
What's a standard PvP blink/ob opening?
There are many variations but here's what you want to do generally:
1. Make sure you're safe from 3/4gate and get 2 geysers asap.
2. Get 3 gates, blink and an observer being as greedy as possible. Make sure the observer is out in time for DTs.
3. Go harass etc.
Personally I prefer going for 1gate tech, getting 3 gates and then adding on the second tech structure. This makes you kind of safe against warp prism 4gates. Some players get both the robo and the TC off of one gate but I find that a bit risky.
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1494 Posts
I need help PvT, anyone got any links to openers/midgame strageties?
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What is the standard response out of FFE to Destiny style 2 base Infested Terran bust?
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i've been finding my standard for korhal against z who goes 3 base is a 7 gate +2 blink stalker because it's very easy to abuse the cliff with blink. I'll switch it up of course, but blink with a cliff is just ridiculous for any zerg.
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EPT
