EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 200
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Orazio
New Zealand10 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On March 05 2012 00:47 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is the standard response out of FFE to Destiny style 2 base Infested Terran bust? It's kind of hard to scout it but you should be able to confirm the zerg going for 4 geysers on 2 base. At this point, just get 5 or more gates up and if you can confirm this strategy, get more cannons. | ||
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WalkofLife
United States18 Posts
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Orazio
New Zealand10 Posts
On March 05 2012 10:23 WalkofLife wrote: How many gateways can I support on 2 bases? As a rule of thumb I generally add on 3-4 gateways and 1 robo per every base | ||
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Lafer
United States114 Posts
So I still feel like I am having zerg troubles, regarding hitting the timing of when to attack them to stop the third. Should I just keep a tab on what they are doing and macro up along with them, or should I still try to stop their 3rd? This is in the gold league/plat, because I am playing plat players as well now. The most frustrating thing for me failing hard to stop their third and getting rolled over a couple of minutes later to a 200/200 roach army. | ||
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Tiegrr
United States607 Posts
On March 05 2012 10:23 WalkofLife wrote: How many gateways can I support on 2 bases? This may be old school(I played the majority of my SC2 in season 1) but I used 5 gates on 2 bases, 3+ for each next base. @Lafer A ~7 minute +1 4 gate can usually kill his 3rd. If you see him go early roach, attack only if there aren't too many (focus down the hatchery). Otherwise, 5 gate robo with immo sentry blink stalker heavy army (my preference) or the infamous +2 7 gate blink stalker all in. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On March 05 2012 15:27 Tiegrr wrote: This may be old school(I played the majority of my SC2 in season 1) but I used 5 gates on 2 bases, 3+ for each next base. @Lafer A ~7 minute +1 4 gate can usually kill his 3rd. If you see him go early roach, attack only if there aren't too many (focus down the hatchery). Otherwise, 5 gate robo with immo sentry blink stalker heavy army (my preference) or the infamous +2 7 gate blink stalker all in. Just going to say that the 5gate robo twilight isn't necessarily all in, you can take a third with that build really fast. ANd it's quite tech heavy too. | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
But if he doesnt do 2rax I'm not sure what's going on.. I usually get 2gates and robo at 30, get 2 quick observer. I dont know if i should get stalkers or zealots when I'm in dark? About midgame I also dont know where to go. Drops are scary and it takes 6stalkers to kill medivac with 2 volley, any less I feel gets obliterated and even 6 stalker probably loses to stmmed medidrop. I usually have 6 stalkers on my main 10:30. around 12m I dont know how to defend 2 medivac drop when my army is near my 3rd or fighting his army. TL:DR Whats my usual gameplan? Like as zerg I had lings into blings into muta, take 3rd, etc. Simple stuff. I dont know what I aim for in PvT and I dont know how I can fight MMM without colossus or how I tech to colossus safely but fast enough. (Like tech prio?) | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On March 05 2012 20:43 Ryndika wrote: Guys how I know if terran is going gasless expand or 2gas fast tech or 2rax? So far I've been trying to go this : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316256 But if he doesnt do 2rax I'm not sure what's going on.. I usually get 2gates and robo at 30, get 2 quick observer. I dont know if i should get stalkers or zealots when I'm in dark? About midgame I also dont know where to go. Drops are scary and it takes 6stalkers to kill medivac with 2 volley, any less I feel gets obliterated and even 6 stalker probably loses to stmmed medidrop. I usually have 6 stalkers on my main 10:30. around 12m I dont know how to defend 2 medivac drop when my army is near my 3rd or fighting his army. TL:DR Whats my usual gameplan? Like as zerg I had lings into blings into muta, take 3rd, etc. Simple stuff. I dont know what I aim for in PvT and I dont know how I can fight MMM without colossus or how I tech to colossus safely but fast enough. (Like tech prio?) Well if he get's gas you can scout it, if he doesn't takes gas it's most likely a gasless FE. 2 fast geysers is quite unusual though and the only build I think taking 2 fast is blue flame hellion drops. Just get some stalkers to defen banshees and hellions while you make observers to find out what he's up to, you're doing it right. As for the drops, don't let the medivac drop units. Chase it away or kill it before you have 4 stimmed marauders in your base. It's up to you what's your gameplan is. You can fight MMM without colossus in smaller supply ranges but as the ball grows bigger you need AoE. 3gate robo colossus on 2 bases is standard, just remember to add more gates later on. Also you might want to start up with 4 or maybe even 5 on maps like metalopolis. | ||
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Tiegrr
United States607 Posts
On March 05 2012 21:15 Latedi wrote: Well if he get's gas you can scout it, if he doesn't takes gas it's most likely a gasless FE. 2 fast geysers is quite unusual though and the only build I think taking 2 fast is blue flame hellion. 2 fast gas can also mean banshee harass->1/1/1 all in (or just banshee harass for something else). You'll need chargelots/colossi/phoenix/good engagements (1 if the 4, HT won't be up in time so I didn't mention that) to beat it. You're now likely to hold the attack if he goes on 2 bases for it though. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
PvP yesterday on Korhal where my opponent goes for a proxy gate. So, I drop down a forge and delay my gases in preparation for the hit. I think he realised that I had scouted it and held off, but he snuck a probe into my base and did a quick double gas steal. I thought of trying a cannon rush at his main, but he spotted my probe and I pulled out of that. I eventually killed both assimilators with Zealots and took both my gases but he had transitioned into 4 gate and attacked just as my gates were coming online (I had 3 gates at that point and was planning on transitioning into Robo and WP). I think 3 of my mistakes were not anticipating the 4 gate transition as I made little attempt to scout his Core and the energy on his Nexus, and I had no Sentries when he attacked (although I think I would have had the gas for only on Sentry, and a Stalker). The other, of course, was not killing that probe when it got into my base - I just was not anticipating a double gas steal (maybe I should have put a couple of probes onto killing the assimilators too, even though it would have cost me mining time). Apart from these, are there any suggestions on what I could/should have done? Thanks. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On March 06 2012 04:15 aZealot wrote: Hey guys, any tips on dealing with a double gas steal? PvP yesterday on Korhal where my opponent goes for a proxy gate. So, I drop down a forge and delay my gases in preparation for the hit. I think he realised that I had scouted it and held off, but he snuck a probe into my base and did a quick double gas steal. I thought of trying a cannon rush at his main, but he spotted my probe and I pulled out of that. I eventually killed both assimilators with Zealots and took both my gases but he had transitioned into 4 gate and attacked just as my gates were coming online (I had 3 gates at that point and was planning on transitioning into Robo and WP). I think 3 of my mistakes were not anticipating the 4 gate transition as I made little attempt to scout his Core and the energy on his Nexus, and I had no Sentries when he attacked (although I think I would have had the gas for only on Sentry, and a Stalker). The other, of course, was killing that probe when it got into my base - I just was not anticipating a double gas steal (myabe I should have put a couple of probes onto killing the assimilators too, even though it would have cost me mining time). Apart from these, are there any suggestions on what I could/should have done? Thanks. 1º Obvious option is to steal his gases as well (i did this every time i faced the double steal) 2º Chrono a zeals to his main. He should ve at least a bit behind; 150 min is a LOT early game. Then focus fire probes. 3º Kill both gases into ffe. His stalkers will be faster that yours so if he goes for a gate attack you cannot stop it without cannons, and cannoning your main will be pointless. Also, always scout for hidden probes. Also, next time be ready for it, get an assim. as soon you see his probe taking yout gases. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On March 06 2012 00:30 Tiegrr wrote: 2 fast gas can also mean banshee harass->1/1/1 all in (or just banshee harass for something else). You'll need chargelots/colossi/phoenix/good engagements (1 if the 4, HT won't be up in time so I didn't mention that) to beat it. You're now likely to hold the attack if he goes on 2 bases for it though. Wait what? When would you ever need that unit composition? Against 1-1-1? O.o | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
Maybe VR+ something? I just dont know what units beat it. Colossus feels pretty helpless against this combination but good unit to get into lategame. A bit lost =) Other thing would be to get 3 warprism and warp some units in his bases, what would be good unit with that strat? DT? (This is baseracing ofc, dunno if good ide against zerg, even with slow comp.) Tried watching streams but I see zerg usually win lategame mass army fight. | ||
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andReslic
216 Posts
any help? thanks for your attention and help  | ||
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ooopepper
United States7 Posts
I am having problems with this build I am practicing, mainly vs zerg. I do not currently have a replay to upload but I can tell you the build order. Basically, I go 10 pylon, 10 gate, and this allows me to build early stalkers for harass. What I've learned is that, if zerg expands(does not matter when), then I can harass until the 6 minute mark(speedlings). During harass, I do a 3gateway expand. After this, I get ran over from mass roaches. The zerg did not go roach bust, he just masses roaches. I have to note that I have not been keeping up with the metagame lately. So any help would be appreciated! | ||
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callecal
Sweden65 Posts
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On March 06 2012 06:09 Ryndika wrote: Hi, I many times can get my protoss deathball but i dont know what beats spine festor BL. It's impossible to toilet more than around 4 BL and anything on ground gets obliteratedin seconds. If I make carriers he will remax with overkill number of corruptors and morph 80% of them into BL. Takes alot resources but so do I need resources too and I cant remax on SG units quick enough. Maybe VR+ something? I just dont know what units beat it. Colossus feels pretty helpless against this combination but good unit to get into lategame. A bit lost =) Other thing would be to get 3 warprism and warp some units in his bases, what would be good unit with that strat? DT? (This is baseracing ofc, dunno if good ide against zerg, even with slow comp.) Tried watching streams but I see zerg usually win lategame mass army fight. theres no protoss unit composition that can take that head on. When he has mass spines like that you cannot attack into it. if hes turtling around his spines, you need to deny as many expansions as you can and his resources are gona dry up. Archon toilet is the only way to deal with infestor brood. You can easily get more than 4 BL's in a toilet. When he A moves his army they bunch up all together which is what you want. You just gota be patient in your army positioning and waiting for him to be in a bad position as well. If you cant get a mothership out and you know you wont have the gas to make 6+archons then i suggest you base trade because you have no chance in a direct engagement. | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On March 06 2012 06:18 callecal wrote: Any good idea how to defend a cannon rush PVP. I am in platinum. say he goes 12-14 forge in his base and you scout his proxy pylon down your ramp. your gateway should be almost done at that point, so you need to chrono that zealot but in the meantime u HAVE to send a ton of probes to attack the pylons that are building. If they are already done you will NOT break those pylons in time, so your going to have to fight for the high ground. If he builds cannons on the high ground with a cannon covering it from the low ground, you gota suicide your probes and zealots and kill everything on the high ground or your 100% dead. If the pylon is done i suggest you make yourself a forge and try to delay his approach to the high ground if possible. Build cannons asap so he cant advance any further and suicide your zealots/probes if your cannons are outnumbered. Lets say hes building 2 cannons and your building 2, but his are going to finish first, you need to send units to start attacking those cannons and if you dont its game over. edit: Its easier to spot cannon rushes on certain maps but most of the time you should be able to see the pylons building regardless if your scouting probe reaches his base in time or not. You should be using your 2nd pylon and building it near the edge of your main base near your ramp to see if a probe is making pylons there. However on some maps they wont even try to do that because the main is so big, so they'll try to make a wall of pylons behind your mineral line like in shakuras plateau, you need to watch out for that. | ||
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