EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 188
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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joolz
United States67 Posts
Who are some of the best available coaches for a mid/high masters-level protoss wanting to get even better? Off the top of my head, some good ones are Axslav, InControl, and maybe dApollo, but those are only the ones I know offer coaching for sure. Don't know if Grubby offers coaching but that would probably be AMAZING if he did. Mostly looking for a coach that can offer big help on the strategy level, and not just mechanics/tactics. | ||
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Avean
Norway449 Posts
So how do i deal with this ? Do i just expand myself and ACCEPT that he will be ahead of me, or should i tech to for example 2 gate robo into colossus from 1 base ? Thats the only solution i can think of. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On February 20 2012 05:01 Avean wrote: Any advice against a fast expanding terran ? I saw he was fast expanding and thought basicly i had to push him or else i would be faar behind. So i went 4 gate but he placed down 3 bunkers and i did my best to force field away the SCV's but not enough. I had to just GG out of the game. So how do i deal with this ? Do i just expand myself and ACCEPT that he will be ahead of me, or should i tech to for example 2 gate robo into colossus from 1 base ? Thats the only solution i can think of. He will not be far ahead of you if you 1gate FE. You could even do the cyber core FE at 20 food or nexus first at 16 if you got balls for that. If you go for the 1gate FE your nexus should be going up around the same time as his orbital is done, if he gasless FEs that is. Meaning the CC won't be producing SCVs or MULEs and he can only gain a superior economy by transfering SCVs at that time. Then you got chronoboost and he got MULEs so the income should be about the same. Even it's not that won't be the deciding factor of the outcome of the game. | ||
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PMIgrinder
United States9 Posts
On February 20 2012 05:01 Avean wrote: Any advice against a fast expanding terran ? I saw he was fast expanding and thought basicly i had to push him or else i would be faar behind. So i went 4 gate but he placed down 3 bunkers and i did my best to force field away the SCV's but not enough. I had to just GG out of the game. So how do i deal with this ? Do i just expand myself and ACCEPT that he will be ahead of me, or should i tech to for example 2 gate robo into colossus from 1 base ? Thats the only solution i can think of. I don't know what the best option is (probably just a 1-gate FE), but you could try for an immortal/zealot/sentry timing, you go 2-gate robo into expand, drop two more gates then push when you have ~3 immortals. As long as you don't cut probes and you don't overcommit, it's not all-in. Sometimes you'll just kill the bunkers and fall back, and other times you'll cause your opponent to lift up his CC. This works better on maps without a ramp to the natural, like shattered temple or cloud kingdom. So yeah, not saying that is an ideal counter, but it's fun and maybe you can mess around with it. | ||
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habermas
United Kingdom304 Posts
On February 20 2012 05:01 Avean wrote: Any advice against a fast expanding terran ? I saw he was fast expanding and thought basicly i had to push him or else i would be faar behind. So i went 4 gate but he placed down 3 bunkers and i did my best to force field away the SCV's but not enough. I had to just GG out of the game. So how do i deal with this ? Do i just expand myself and ACCEPT that he will be ahead of me, or should i tech to for example 2 gate robo into colossus from 1 base ? Thats the only solution i can think of. You can try proxy robo 4 gate warp prism, especially if he relies on bunkers for defence. | ||
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xlava
United States676 Posts
On February 20 2012 05:13 Latedi wrote: He will not be far ahead of you if you 1gate FE. You could even do the cyber core FE at 20 food or nexus first at 16 if you got balls for that. If you go for the 1gate FE your nexus should be going up around the same time as his orbital is done, if he gasless FEs that is. Meaning the CC won't be producing SCVs or MULEs and he can only gain a superior economy by transfering SCVs at that time. Then you got chronoboost and he got MULEs so the income should be about the same. Even it's not that won't be the deciding factor of the outcome of the game. Fast third  Replay High master protoss here. GL. | ||
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DuraLot
Norway32 Posts
On February 20 2012 05:13 Latedi wrote: He will not be far ahead of you if you 1gate FE. You could even do the cyber core FE at 20 food or nexus first at 16 if you got balls for that. If you go for the 1gate FE your nexus should be going up around the same time as his orbital is done, if he gasless FEs that is. Meaning the CC won't be producing SCVs or MULEs and he can only gain a superior economy by transfering SCVs at that time. Then you got chronoboost and he got MULEs so the income should be about the same. Even it's not that won't be the deciding factor of the outcome of the game. You're pretty much right, one thing though, never go for a Nexus-first build unless you know you're opponent will go for a one-barracks gassless FE, pro players will occassionally go Nexus-first but that's done with some serrious meta-gaming. If you face an opponent that you've faced many times before and you know he likes to go 1-barracks gassless FE, then be confident with a Nexus-first build (On an appropriate map! Taldarim is a perfect example where Nexus-first tends to go well.) My goal vs. Terran is to safely go for a one-gate expansion. 9 - Pylon 13 - Gateway 14 - Gas 16 - Pylon @100% Gateway - Cybernetics Core (Keep chrono boosting them probers) @100 minerals - Zealot (You don't want to have your expansion blocked by an E-Bay) @ 400 minerals - Nexus (Remember your probes and pylons) @300 Minerals - Gateway nr. 2 and 3 (Put on pressure with stalkers, remember to chrono-boost the Nexus, you don't need to chronoboost the cybernetics core if your Terran 'buddy' is playing a standard 1-Barracks FE into 2 more barracks and double gass into medivacs and upgrades) The stalkers will solve a lot of problems, like helions harrassement, marine pressure, and so on. From there on I like to play the Genius build, I add a Robo after my third Gateway and build and observer (I like to follow that up with two Immortals, before adding the robotics bay for collossi. After the Robo is producing, I add a Forge (I push with +2 +1 upgrades.) When +1 Armor is 30% complete I add the Twilight council and research Zealot-Legs, and add two more Gateways, bringing me to 5 Gateways, a Robo Bay, a Forge, and a Twilight Council. I add Blink after Charge is complete. From there on I like to follow it up with a 3rd base and the Templar Archives. Note that this build is a little un-refined, but I like the style atleast :D | ||
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Orazio
New Zealand10 Posts
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-JoKeR-
Canada387 Posts
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Xenos23
Germany20 Posts
On February 20 2012 02:16 joolz wrote: (sorry if this isn't right thread, didn't want to start a new one) Who are some of the best available coaches for a mid/high masters-level protoss wanting to get even better? Off the top of my head, some good ones are Axslav, InControl, and maybe dApollo, but those are only the ones I know offer coaching for sure. Don't know if Grubby offers coaching but that would probably be AMAZING if he did. Mostly looking for a coach that can offer big help on the strategy level, and not just mechanics/tactics. Grubby coaches indeed, 125$/hr! | ||
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xlava
United States676 Posts
On February 20 2012 06:09 Orazio wrote: How can I improve as a player? I'm in silver right now but i've beaten top diamond players with macro, but my standard build is a 4gate? I've tried 3gate blink stalkers with robo, i've tried 3 gate robo into expo, i've tried forge fast expand. I watch casting and streams everyday and I try imitate top level play. No matter how much I try never seem to be able to win. How can I get better as a protoss player? Well unfortunately it sounds like you've gotten your mmr to diamond level by cheesing. Its going to be difficult for you to get better until your mmr resettles around silver league. Once you lose enough games that will happen. Then focus on macro builds. 1-3gate expand versus Terran, 3gate expand versus Zerg, and try robo builds in PvP, they are the safest and easiest and allow for expansions. Replays if you have specific questions. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
While that's a possibility I'd not say it's completely safe. There are gimmicks like FE into cloaked banshee or builds such as the 4rax. If the terran is however playing completely standard I'd say a fast third is good. | ||
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freeshooter
United States477 Posts
So then, I'd like to learn builds that force roaches and make zergs skive off the muta tech path. +1 Zealot timing attacks Stargate play Early pressure robo builds I think those ones discourage muta teching. Are there any other builds that will help zergs stay away from mutas? Or am I just thinking of wrong builds? Please and thank you. | ||
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JMC4
United States261 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On February 20 2012 12:38 freeshooter wrote: I'm a Diamond Toss player NA server. I just got rocked 3 games versus Zergs because I can't seem to deal with mutas. I would like to play one game without fear of mutas, and I can't seem to get the hang of defending mutas. So then, I'd like to learn builds that force roaches and make zergs skive off the muta tech path. +1 Zealot timing attacks Stargate play Early pressure robo builds I think those ones discourage muta teching. Are there any other builds that will help zergs stay away from mutas? Or am I just thinking of wrong builds? Please and thank you. It depends on the build zerg is doing. 2base muta can indeed be killed off easily with timing attacks if he is playing unsafe (not making 5-6 spines at his nat at least), but often times zerg will open roach/ling, defend any kind of timing at his third with it and then switch into muta; there are very few ways to punish that build unless his muta switch is extremely late and you already have lots of immortals+blink stalkers, or perhaps colossi. That said, there's already a guide on +1 zealots in the recommended section; the blues have also said they intend to work together on an ffe into stargate guide which should come out soonish. edit: at the poster above me: you can range the spines with colossi, take them down with void rays/carriers if it's super super late game, or kill them with immortals. Just make sure that you don't run into infestor broodlord, and that he has switched out of mutas so he doesn't kill all your stuff while you waste time on spine crawlers. Another alternative is just to never engage straight up, use zealot warpins etc. Against muta you really can't move out, so you might as well sit in your base, keep expanding and wait until you get a few good storms that wipe the mutas, or wait until he tech switches. Against infestor broodlord, none can really engage each other once you are ready to archon toilet him, so you can warp in a few zealots and dt's from warp prisms to take out his hatcheries, forcing him to engage you. That way you don't even have to go to the spine crawlers. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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brainpower
United States233 Posts
Can someone give me a rundown of the current PvT matchup? Did terrans ever find a way to break the old 1 gate FE without going all in? What sort of major mid game pushes do I need to be aware of other than big drop play? Is there a relatively standard time that I should be taking my 3rd/denying his? | ||
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Drowzee
40 Posts
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