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Shock and Awe was not developed (with exception of the name itself) in 1996, it was first likely recorded in the Art of War (which was supposedly written by Sun Tzu) and was used on the battlefield before that. Drawing your opponent to position A (and possibly engaging them), then attacking position B (which is lightly or undefended) is not a new doctrine.
That said, dropping in general for Protoss can be quite underwhelming when compared to Zerg or Terran drops.
For Zerg, since they already have lots of Overlords, they can basically carry their whole army anywhere they want with two upgrades. They also have Nydus networks and the creep mechanic (in addition to having units with a high base movement speed) allows for them to traverse the map quite quickly.
For Terran, if they plan to build a Barracks army (often the case against Protoss), they need medivacs to heal their units and to use stim effectively, so dropping simply becomes a bonus then. Furthermore, because their Barracks units have very high DPS, they can be dropped in small numbers effectively, because they can stim and easily pick off probes or buildings.
For the Protoss, the Warp Prism is not a unit they already get, or a required unit. It takes away time from the important Robo Facility and means this strategy is unlikely to work with Colossus in general (since you'll have less warpgates if your going Colossus and you'll also be cutting into Colossus Production to fit a Warp Prism out).
So you're stuck with the Gateway units when it comes to drops, which aren't bad, quite the opposite, but when dropped in numbers the damage they do is very limited compared to Terran, and less than even Zerg drops. Stalkers and Sentries aren't high damage dealers in general, so you wouldn't want to warp them in. But Zealots are melee, and while there DPS is decent, it does suffer vs buildings with armor since they have two attack. Also 4 stimmed Marauders does the job at killing buildings much better, just like 8 stimmed Marines does the job of killing workers better. Dark Templars are expensive, and are the best option but since they are cloaked they can often reach their target unopposed to begin with. Generally the detection surrounds the target itself. Also since Amulet was removed, it makes no sense to warp in High Templars.
Finally, since Zerg spreads creep and Overlords around the map, and since Terran has sensor towers (which are incredibly underused) it is difficult to sneak a drop in and then get the Warp Prism out without losing it.
Thus, for Protoss drops are the not only the most difficult, but also the least effective. This doesn't mean they should not be included in our play, but I would argue not at the expense of Colossus, and our entire strategy should not be based around them. Rather they should be used as reactionary measure (ie my opponent doesn't have a sensor tower and is pushing with tanks slowly, let me drop some Zealots in his base).
So while Protoss can put units anywhere, the fact these units deal low DPS in general make them a poor choice for harrassment, and as mentioned Dark Templars can often reach their target unopposed since the detection generally surrounds the target itself. So Warp Prism play, while it can be effective, is a strategy that has limited uses for Protoss. I'd rate Warp Prisms more valuable than Carriers, and perhaps equal to Motherships.
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This is great.. thanks. I think i'll start making a warp prism in that awkward time my robo isn't building anything between the obs and first collosus in PvT.
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As a protoss player I feel that often time in battles the extra warp in is instrumental to "pull ahead" of a big battle.
Dropping 4 chargelots just doesnt seem to have the "umph" of 8 stimmed marines (unless opponent fails to run his workers away). If you spend 6 warp-ins then that is another 6 units that are potentially fighting the front lines.
Warp prism+HT/DTs I feel are still very powerful.
I expect HotS to replace the warp prism with something else.
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This method also increases the Prism's drop capacity to whatever number of gateways you have + 4 small. 4 gateways could drop 8 DTs, or 4 DTs and 4 zealots. etc. (You just won't be able to get them all out alive unless you can blink the stalkers away easily).
A prism can also carry a single collo right? You're probably better off at having that at your front line though. Warping in some sentries and dropping off some charged HTs could also completely destroy an expansions mining capacity by killing off its entire worker population (FF the worker's exit, then storm).
I started training one or two prisms and getting the speed after lances are done. I have them floating around the frontlines just behind the engagements, as they act like a moving forward pylon which you can retreat quickly. A forward pylon will die if your army gets pushed back a little bit, and it means you can't retreat your warp point if necessary (warping in zealots in the middle of a lot of roaches is never a good idea).
Not to mention it allows striking at rocked bases really easily. I love the idea.
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Plexa fighting! Glad to see you still around ^_____^ This guide is a fantastic dive into an effective strategy that goes above and beyond the protoss death-ball. I'll be directing the protoss players I know to this page, and thank you for taking the time to write this up.
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My mindset towards this is that it is a midgame all in. You are foregoing building up a second army and gambling on the strength of Protoss units in low numbers to cause enough damage to put you ahead. Being a midgame all in it's difficult to assess whether the tactic was worth it or not, in my experience I have determined that it is - and I hope that that remains true for you as well. I've managed to use this to great effect to stall for more gas units while dealing some solid damage. Given the current metagame of PvZ where Zergs are forcing army trades with blings and roaches, this strategy can be really annoying to deal with and give you those extra seconds you desperately want.
Funnily enough, these types of tactics work so well against Protoss that even Protoss can use it well against other Protoss! Other than DT's and the occasional Zealot hitman crew sniping a hatchery, I've hadn't had that much success with drops in ZvP.
I find due to the barracks system, Terran has a much easier time defending drops (hear me out!) than Protoss, it is often easy to get caught without warpgates after using them to create units half way across the map but Terrans method of creation is much more fluid, when you drop, in most cases there are units being rallied or created that are not far away, combine this with SCV's and the raw DPS of bio units means they can clear up Protoss drops quickly. PF's also mark it hard to even drop expansions at all :/ though you can be annoying and put two/three stalkers behind the mineral line but they really don't do that much damage at all.
PvP however, these drop tactics are amazing. Just as with Terran, it is easy to catch the other Protoss inbetween warpgate cooldowns and do some serious damage to his economy. You combine this with the fact that Protoss's ability to recreate Probes faster actually increase their mineral expenditure in the process, so they only reap the benefits a few minutes later as opposed to a mule or larva mechanic that can burst your economy quickly. It puts you in a position where if the other side chooses to rebuild their economy the you are free to take expansions or invest in expensive tech (say drop 2/3 Stargates) and go unpunished, or rather the other Protoss has put himself in a position where he can no longer punish due to having to chrono boost probes.
I think the biggest thing to take note here is that unlike other races, you aren't dropping a part of your army, you are actually warping in your reinforcements in to do the damage, so if everything fails you end up having no army back at home waiting and end up crumbling in the process so you have to be much more intelligent with how you drop.
With the Warp-Prism, personally I've had better experience using it as more of a defensive unit to set up bases quickly. I just have one hotkeyed and lying around with a single probe in it (it has also saved my ass SOO many times in base trades, just being able to get some where remote quickly and create some tech is amazing). Whenever I create a base I just send it to where I want, deploy it and start warping in cannons whilst I also build the Nexus and Pylons.
Also, instead of Zealots, you can use the Warp-prism to cannon mineral lines from the low/high ground, only works on a few maps but it works pretty well.
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A major problem is having enough money to actually do this and still win fights / survive their attack.
It is true that this could be used more to great effect later game. Though it's often annoying to stop collossi production at all, it could still be worth it to chrono out a warp prism. Or maybe you just have 2 robos.
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For epic lulz, especially when a zerg has macro hatches with lots of larvae built up late-game. Warp in DTs and start one-shotting all their larvae.
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I think the biggest thing to take note here is that unlike other races, you aren't dropping a part of your army, you are actually warping in your reinforcements in to do the damage, so if everything fails you end up having no army back at home waiting and end up crumbling in the process so you have to be much more intelligent with how you drop.
I understand this position, but I don't understand the logic behind it.
As any other race that drops (Terran's the most obvious), they actually have to remove parts of their army to do this drop. Which means their main force will be weaker, but they'll get reinforcements. With protoss doing this, you don't affect your army size, but affect a single round of reinforcements (which can be sped up a lot with chrono, zealots come in quick). If you lose the main battle, you'd be surviving on the reinforcements usually, but both other races are usually better at reinforcing (especially after coming out on top in a battle and advancing). Zerg remaxes really fast, and Terran's units heal up ready for another stim. You won't be getting many collosus out before he gets another 5-10 marauders, so usually you're dead at that point anyway.
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Thank you so much for writing this post so well. Warp prisms need more exploring. I use them quite a bit in PvT, but they honestly never cross my mind in the other matchups...
If you want to get even more all-in you could do your blink stalker attacks at the front to draw out the main army and drop a couple immortals with a couple sentries at the ramp along with your support units to you do some real damage. It would actually be even less all-inish (than the immortals) to make that a colossus inside and warp in a supporting cast. Your colossus drop could segue into a tech switch away from colossus (maybe back into immortal or something).
Perfect post for a struggling masters protoss in PvZ. Going to experiment with this a bit
I'll mention also that I dont know if this is as all-in as you make it sound... it definitely doesn't have to be... it follows the same principle as whiteras fast warp prism drop that I still use against terran close air. If you've ever done that specific opener then you know how skimpy it feels to send your whole army to their main leaving 2 sentries behind. In actuality you're perfectly safe. I think unless they handle it completely perfectly you will have bought time to get your defenses up... Also, if you're using blink stalkers PvZ or something I dont see why you cant just retreat a bit with blink then splitting your stalkers off to go after an expansion while they move back to their main.
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i actualy enjoy getting 2 warp prisms PvZ and get one under their main, second at some far expo and just go with main army/clear xel nagas and then drop their expo (zerg nubs move all force over there...) and at the same time bam at main chargelots with 3/2 dont care about spine crawlers rly and u just kill tech/hive/hatcherys/whatever. But u need to be good at drawing his army without engaging rly
nice writeup anyways
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 07 2011 02:58 travis wrote:
A major problem is having enough money to actually do this and still win fights / survive their attack.
It is true that this could be used more to great effect later game. Though it's often annoying to stop collossi production at all, it could still be worth it to chrono out a warp prism. Or maybe you just have 2 robos.
If you have enough money to make reinforcements, then you have enough money to do this. Colossi are on their way out, strategically they force you into a 'one big hit' type scenario which tz are getting better at stopping. This strategy really isn't compatible with a hardcore colossus focus as the latter means you need to win the major fight decisively and can't afford to be losing colossus.
On June 07 2011 02:32 Selkie wrote:
Plexa, how do you deal with terran going "Oh shit" , followed by a doomdrop into a base race? This is my "normal" reaction to it (less of a doom drop and more like 3-5 medics full), following into a game of cat and mouse?
I'll see if I have the replay of the game to provide details... You're using your army to keep tabs on his army. The idea is to only use the warp prism once your army is doing something - ideally attacking, threatening to attack is sufficient. If he goes for the doom drop.. you lol in his face pretty much 
On June 07 2011 02:33 ComaDose wrote:
How do you feel about carrying in two Templar with ready storms and warping in the round of zealots after? I don't really like it, but it has its place. I'd prefer the templar to be in my core army so I can (hopefully) crush his army while doing this. If im storming his workers then he might win the battle conclusively and im fucked, even though I have more workers.
Do you stick around for a second warp in round or save your prism? Depends on the situation, as you noted.
On June 07 2011 03:13 Acidictadpole wrote:Show nested quote +I think the biggest thing to take note here is that unlike other races, you aren't dropping a part of your army, you are actually warping in your reinforcements in to do the damage, so if everything fails you end up having no army back at home waiting and end up crumbling in the process so you have to be much more intelligent with how you drop. I understand this position, but I don't understand the logic behind it. As any other race that drops (Terran's the most obvious), they actually have to remove parts of their army to do this drop. Which means their main force will be weaker, but they'll get reinforcements. With protoss doing this, you don't affect your army size, but affect a single round of reinforcements (which can be sped up a lot with chrono, zealots come in quick). If you lose the main battle, you'd be surviving on the reinforcements usually, but both other races are usually better at reinforcing (especially after coming out on top in a battle and advancing). Zerg remaxes really fast, and Terran's units heal up ready for another stim. You won't be getting many collosus out before he gets another 5-10 marauders, so usually you're dead at that point anyway. This does rely on coming out approximately even with the Terran (or ahead) after the battle. He's not going to be getting any reinforcements as your warp ins will be attacking them. Like I said in response to travis' post, Colossus based strategies are becoming obsolete because of their inflexibility. Ideally after your first 3 colossus you're preparing to switch out to templar tech and the like and something like this might give you some additional seconds to get storm. But yeah, lose the battle badly and try this and you probably will die (but you're probably dead regardless).
On June 07 2011 03:18 Jayrod wrote:
Thank you so much for writing this post so well. Warp prisms need more exploring. I use them quite a bit in PvT, but they honestly never cross my mind in the other matchups...
If you want to get even more all-in you could do your blink stalker attacks at the front to draw out the main army and drop a couple immortals with a couple sentries at the ramp along with your support units to you do some real damage. It would actually be even less all-inish (than the immortals) to make that a colossus inside and warp in a supporting cast. Your colossus drop could segue into a tech switch away from colossus (maybe back into immortal or something). My first idea was to do a blinkstalker/3 prism timing push against Zerg. I would set up the prisms on the edge of the base, blink in and warp in as many zealots as I could. Didn't work as well as I thought it would 
Perfect post for a struggling masters protoss in PvZ. Going to experiment with this a bit PM me
I'll mention also that I dont know if this is as all-in as you make it sound... it definitely doesn't have to be... it follows the same principle as whiteras fast warp prism drop that I still use against terran close air. If you've ever done that specific opener then you know how skimpy it feels to send your whole army to their main leaving 2 sentries behind. In actuality you're perfectly safe. I think unless they handle it completely perfectly you will have bought time to get your defenses up... Also, if you're using blink stalkers PvZ or something I dont see why you cant just retreat a bit with blink then splitting your stalkers off to go after an expansion while they move back to their main. Its as all in as a 4gate all in is. It's the same principle behind it, just at a later stage in the game 
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On June 07 2011 03:13 Acidictadpole wrote:Show nested quote +I think the biggest thing to take note here is that unlike other races, you aren't dropping a part of your army, you are actually warping in your reinforcements in to do the damage, so if everything fails you end up having no army back at home waiting and end up crumbling in the process so you have to be much more intelligent with how you drop. I understand this position, but I don't understand the logic behind it. As any other race that drops (Terran's the most obvious), they actually have to remove parts of their army to do this drop. Which means their main force will be weaker, but they'll get reinforcements. With protoss doing this, you don't affect your army size, but affect a single round of reinforcements (which can be sped up a lot with chrono, zealots come in quick). If you lose the main battle, you'd be surviving on the reinforcements usually, but both other races are usually better at reinforcing (especially after coming out on top in a battle and advancing). Zerg remaxes really fast, and Terran's units heal up ready for another stim. You won't be getting many collosus out before he gets another 5-10 marauders, so usually you're dead at that point anyway.
Terrans rarely rely on their reinforcements to win a fight half way across the map, their army is the most capable of clearing house without needing a back up round of units in the lategame. When you split your main army you force the Protoss to split his, in turn making it much weaker, if he chooses not to then he takes damage in a few ways, you might lose the main fight but the damage that is possible to be done by stimmed marines/marauders eclipses DT's/Zealots/Stalkers.
So with Protoss if you engage a Terran then warp-in your reinforcements into HIS base then you are effectively helping him IMO, he does't rely on those reinforcements if hes engaging at your base on Tal'Darim but if you are warping into his main then the units that get to his army at the end of the battle actually are used to clear the drop, so hes fighting your army on two fronts, one with a group of units he would have never used if you just used the warpins to reinforce the main fight so that why I feel thats if you warp-in to/near his main then you are maximizing the potential of his army. It is a much bigger issue for Protoss because you have the option of getting your units into the fight insanely quickly where as the Terran has to walk.
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wow amazing research into different drop lactions not just an untested overview
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one warp prism and gravitic drive is 300/200 so getting one is not as expensive as you would think. This will definitely improve my late-game engagements and I will definitely try this out next time I try more gateway focused strategies. Thanks plexa .
Also, Zealots in mineral lines are so much fun. I did that a lot when I was a beginner and 4 zealots can easily be as effective as a zergling runby.
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This is maybe the most usefull thread on the strategy forums in weeks
I disagree with the thing you say about high templars, you cant warp them in with energy, but you could still load some up in to the warp prism and storm his workers, and then warp in a round zealots and kill his building.
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ooops didn't see the guy who said it before
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On June 07 2011 02:33 BronzeKnee wrote:
Shock and Awe was not developed (with exception of the name itself) in 1996, it was first likely recorded in the Art of War (which was supposedly written by Sun Tzu) and was used on the battlefield before that. Drawing your opponent to position A (and possibly engaging them), then attacking position B (which is lightly or undefended) is not a new doctrine.
That said, dropping in general for Protoss can be quite underwhelming when compared to Zerg or Terran drops.
For Zerg, since they already have lots of Overlords, they can basically carry their whole army anywhere they want with two upgrades. They also have Nydus networks and the creep mechanic (in addition to having units with a high base movement speed) allows for them to traverse the map quite quickly.
For Terran, if they plan to build a Barracks army (often the case against Protoss), they need medivacs to heal their units and to use stim effectively, so dropping simply becomes a bonus then. Furthermore, because their Barracks units have very high DPS, they can be dropped in small numbers effectively, because they can stim and easily pick off probes or buildings.
For the Protoss, the Warp Prism is not a unit they already get, or a required unit. It takes away time from the important Robo Facility and means this strategy is unlikely to work with Colossus in general (since you'll have less warpgates if your going Colossus and you'll also be cutting into Colossus Production to fit a Warp Prism out).
So you're stuck with the Gateway units when it comes to drops, which aren't bad, quite the opposite, but when dropped in numbers the damage they do is very limited compared to Terran, and less than even Zerg drops. Stalkers and Sentries aren't high damage dealers in general, so you wouldn't want to warp them in. But Zealots are melee, and while there DPS is decent, it does suffer vs buildings with armor since they have two attack. Also 4 stimmed Marauders does the job at killing buildings much better, just like 8 stimmed Marines does the job of killing workers better. Dark Templars are expensive, and are the best option but since they are cloaked they can often reach their target unopposed to begin with. Generally the detection surrounds the target itself. Also since Amulet was removed, it makes no sense to warp in High Templars.
Finally, since Zerg spreads creep and Overlords around the map, and since Terran has sensor towers (which are incredibly underused) it is difficult to sneak a drop in and then get the Warp Prism out without losing it.
Thus, for Protoss drops are the not only the most difficult, but also the least effective. This doesn't mean they should not be included in our play, but I would argue not at the expense of Colossus, and our entire strategy should not be based around them. Rather they should be used as reactionary measure (ie my opponent doesn't have a sensor tower and is pushing with tanks slowly, let me drop some Zealots in his base).
So while Protoss can put units anywhere, the fact these units deal low DPS in general make them a poor choice for harrassment, and as mentioned Dark Templars can often reach their target unopposed since the detection generally surrounds the target itself. So Warp Prism play, while it can be effective, is a strategy that has limited uses for Protoss. I'd rate Warp Prisms more valuable than Carriers, and perhaps equal to Motherships.
I think the biggest shittyness about Protoss drops is just the lack of range + raw dps of other units.
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there are a lots of stuff that can negate this style of play in real game.
In order to set this up, you have to have map control in order to pick the armies engagement point. Also you have to control the wrap in timing/cool down as well as the possibility of a base trade if you lose the main battle.
This is basicly how you engage the enemy army and recall your reinforcement back in BW and it has a lots of risk into it.
This style suit best with HT plays bc they can stop counter attack/base trade with the highest production speed, However using wrap in the enemy main make you waste production cycle.
I feel like this build has some potential for a late game carrier switch delay tatic more than a killing blow. Also did you know DT 1 shot larva? you could kill off all the hatch larva saved up using DT instead of killing the tech building... kinda silly but it negate at least 1/3 of their army coming out compare to a max army in wrong composition.
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even assuming you can get the warp prism there pvz completely unscouted, i have doubts as to the effectiveness of this.
firstly, gateway units are really bad in small numbers, despite what you've posted. zealots lose to whatever zerg unit that he's reinforcing with (including lings) at even cost, and you're fighting on creep and near a queen and possible static defense. on top of this, unlike a medivac drop you aren't getting away if the battle turns against you because protoss units are very slow and prone to be surrounded.
past this, wasting 10 supply of units not in the battle with your main army probably means you're going to lose the fight. again, since protoss units tend to be slow you probably aren't getting away - if you are behind in the battle at the front, you lose everything and probably the game. this is why most protoss players tend to leave their units together when possible in this matchup.
i know warp prisms have taken over for nydus worms as the unit everyone says should be used more, but they just aren't that effective. it would be great if there was anything worth warping in, but protoss units are just ineffective compared to their zerg and terran counterparts when fighting in small numbers.
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EPT
