• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:46
CEST 20:46
KST 03:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 750 users

[G] WoL Openings/Timings

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Normal
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 12:21:30
March 18 2011 12:53 GMT
#1
[image loading]Note: in preparation for the incoming HotS beta, this thread has been renamed from Basic to WoL. Once HotS is released, this thread will no longer be updated (archival purposes).
Last Updated: 5.06.12

Downloadable PDF
The pdf will likely lag behind its web counterpart, make sure you check to see if it's up to date

i. Intro
The purpose of this thread is to collect common timings for many predominantly used openings in SC2. In setting a good foundation for strategy, it is essential to know when certain things can happen in a match, and when they cannot. In trying to set this foundation for myself I decided to collect the timings I thought were most important to be aware of in order to be a competent player.

Contribution
I will try to make updates as changes happen, however I would appreciate any help in verifying the best possible timings for these openings, updating existing ones for patch changes, or perhaps adding newer openings as they become more popular/standard as some will inevitably become. Also, if you know of general timings that you feel should be here that I've missed, please let me know.

Submitting Replays
+ Show Spoiler [use the following guidelines when subm…] +
• Please submit replays beginning with patch 1.4
• Open a custom game on a ladder map, with the appropriate race matchup, and exit the game once or shortly after the objectives have been completed. If a matchup is _vX, choose an appropriate race.
• Send out a worker to 'scout' the opponent at the appropriate time so they are not participating in mining or construction for that time period.
• Unless an opening purposely cuts or delays workers, it will be assumed that constant worker production is being adhered to as best as possible. This will also be a factor in determining the best executions.
      -or-
• If you want to submit a pro rep that represents these builds, that works as well.


ii. Updates
+ Show Spoiler +
Update 13 [4.21.12] - Added 3 Colossus Push vs. T
Update 12 [3.18.12] - Updated Zerg Averages for 1.4.3, and added the marauder hellion push, and MMA pvt banshee build.
Update 11 [1.4.12] - Updated Protoss FFE and Nexus First timings.
Update 10 [9.20.11] - Terran section now conforms with patch 1.4
Update 9 [9.2.11] - Added more timings in each general section and 4kmonk's anti 4 gate reference.
Update 8 [8.8.11] - Removed pre 1.3 zerg averages and added the more updated averages for post 1.3 and 1.3.3 patches.
Update 7 [7.28.11] - Removed outdated protoss builds, and updated timings to patch 1.3.3. Also added a few builds.
Update 6 [5.13.11] - Added average pro Lair, Infestation Pit, and Hive timings.
Update 5 [4.12.11] - Added a small but useful References Section.
Update 4 [4.9.11] - Added a banner. Yay to using my art skills!
Update 3 [4.3.11] - Timings revised and replays added to Zerg, Terran and Protoss sections. All timings now conform with patch 1.3.
Update 2 [3.23.11] - Added replay guidelines and Acknowledgments section.
Update 1 [3.18.11] - Added links to appropriate Liquipedia pages.
3.18.11 - Finished, Finally! All openings conform with Patch 1.2.2

Table of Contents
i. Intro
ii. Updates
1.0 Terran
1.1 General
1.2 Openings
2.0 Protoss
2.1 General
2.2 Openings
3.0 Zerg
3.1 General
3.2 Average Timings
3.3 Openings
4.0 Acknowledgements
5.0 References

Notes on Format
For early Nexus and CC timings (timngs before ~6:30 min) it is assumed that these structures are in production and not complete. With regards to Zerg, I generally did not follow any particular build but rather focused on their overarching mechanics, following the various tech directions based on the initial opening styles chosen. Some of the openings are underlined? These link to the appropriate Liquipedia or TeamLiquid.net pages for the specificities of the build.

[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler +
1.1 Terran General
      • 50 energy accumulates at OC in ~1:30.
      • It takes 2:15 from putting down a CC to the completion of an OC.
      • If you start an OC when another has ~35 energy, they will both have 50 energy when that OC finishes.
      • A 12 rax completes @2:43.
      • It is ~2:35 from the time a factory begins to having double medivac/viking production, with the 1st round in play.
      • It takes ~2:05 from the time a ghost academy goes down, to having ghosts with one emp on the field.
      • It takes ~2:05 from beginning an armory to the 1st thor completing.
      • If you begin an armory when +1 is ~%60 (95/160) complete, you will be able to begin +2 when the armory finishes.             Begin this at ~%20 (35/160) if a factory is also needed.

1.2 Terran Openings

Bunker Rush
      » 12 rax • bunker down ~@2:55, marine + bunker ~@3:35
      » 11/11 rax • bunker down ~@3:12, 3 marines + bunker @~@3:52
      » 12/14 rax • bunker down ~@3:26, 4 marines + bunker @~@4:14

1 Rax FE
      » vs Z • 1 marine + %55 reaper + CC ~@3:58
      » vs P
            no gas • 2 marines + CC ~@3:47
            [image loading] no gas, into MMA cloaked banshee • CC ~@3:25, facto ~@5:50, port ~@6:43, 12 marines +1st banshee 7:57,             cloak @8:45, +3 marines +1 tank +2nd banshee @ 8:56
            gas • 1 marine + 1 marauder + CC ~@4:20, +1 marauder @4:40
      » vs T
            no gas, into 1/1/1 • CC ~@3:45, fact ~@6:06, port ~@7:00
            gas • 1 marine + CC ~@3:48

[image loading] 2 Rax Planetary Fortress Rush vs. P
      • 2 marines + ~%70 marauder + CC @4:28, 4 marines +3 marauders + %100 CC @6:08

Marine/SCV all in vs. Z
      » 2 Rax • 8 marines +~15 scvs @5:05
      » 4 Rax • 15 marines +~20 scvs @6:05

[image loading] 2 Rax FE vs. Z
      • 6 marines + CC ~@4:24, 10 marines @5:15

[image loading] 3 Reaper Rush vs. T
      • 1st reaper @4:03, 3 reapers @5:05, CC @5:20

[image loading] 4OC vs. Z
       CC timings can vary greatly with this build, +/- 25s discrepancies are possible
       • CC's ~@4:10, ~5:10 and ~6:10

[image loading] 2 Rax FE vs. P
      • 2rax(tr) +1 marine +1 reaper +1 marauder + CC ~@5:10, +2 marines +1 marauder @5:22

[image loading] 3 Rax Marine stim push vs. Z
      • stim +8 marines @6:23

[image loading] 3 Rax MM stim + conc. push vs. P/T
      • stim + conc. +7 marines +4 marauders @6:41, +2 marines +2 marauders @7:05

[image loading] 2 Base Ghost Push vs. P
      • stim + conc. + 17 marines +8 marauders +2 ghosts @9:32

[image loading] MMM Timing Push
      • conc. +8 marines +5 marauders +2 medivacs @7:40, stim @8:20

1/1/1
      [image loading] » Marine/Tank push vs. T • siege +9 marines +1 tank +1 viking @6:28, 2nd tank ~@7:03
      [image loading] » Hellion Drop • 8 marines +3 hellions +1 medivac @6:10
      [image loading] » Blu Flame Hellion Drop • 4 hellions +1 medivac @6:45
      [image loading] » Marine/Raven/Banshee/Tank Timing Push vs. P • siege +17 marines +2 tanks +1 raven +1 banshee @ 8:18
      [image loading] » Thor Drop • 7 marines +1 thor +1 medivac @6:50, 2nd medivac @7:23

[image loading] Cloaked Banshee
      » Cloak First • 1st banshee @6:40, cloak @7:07, 2nd banshee @7:40
      » Banshee First • 1st banshee @6:16, 2nd banshee @7:16, cloak @7:29

[image loading] 2 Port Banshee
      • 2 banshees @7:02, cloak +4 banshees @8:16 (+9 marines)

Marine/Raven vs. Z
      0376 Pokebunny. Average timing ~@11:05
      • 44 marines +1 Raven @10:46

[image loading] Reactor Hellion Expand
      • 4 hellions @5:27, CC ~@5:44

[image loading] Hellion Marauder Push vs. Z
      • 8 hellions +6 marauders +2 marines +x scv's @7:12

[image loading] Blu Flame Hellion
      • 3 hellions @5:53, pre-igniter @6:18, 4th hellion @6:33

2 Factory Mech
      » Thor - 9 marines +2 thors @7:36, +4 marines +2 hellions +2 thors @9:17
      » Tank - 10 marines +3 tanks + siege @7:29, 4th tank @7:45


[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler +
2.1 Protoss General
      • A 10 gate completes @2:30.
      • A 13 gate completes @2:48.
      • One chronoboost lasts ~1.1 probe production cycle, or ~1.75 probe cycles when on the nexus. Also see the             chronoboost math thread.
      • On a standard 13 gate 17 core, the core will finish at ~3:40. Also if no chronoboost is used on wgr, it will finish @~6:20.
      • It takes ~3:25 from placing a robo facility down to getting the 1st colossus (2:55 w/ 3 chronos).
      • The time between putting down a twilight council to having Templar with storm is ~3:30 (2:40 w/ constant chrono(5)).             This assumes that Templar have 75 energy when research completes.
      • It takes ~2:35 from starting a twilight council to having Dark Templar in play.
      • If you begin a twilight council when +1 is ~%66 (110/160) complete, you will be able to begin +2 when the council             finishes.

2.2 Protoss Openings

Cannon Rush
      • 1st canon begins ~@2:30

2 Gate
      • 3 zealots @4:00, 5 zealots @4:38

Forge Fast Expand vs. Z
      » Forge First • 17 Nexus ~@2:55, 17 gate ~@3:20, 1st cannon done ~@3:47
      » Nexus First
            • 15 Nexus ~@2:29, gate ~@3:11, 1st cannon done ~@4:07
            • 17 Nexus ~@2:36, gate ~@3:24, 1st cannon done ~@4:23
      » FFE into Stargate (~@5:38) • 1 zealot +1 sentry +1 voidray @7:23
      » FFE into 7gate +1/1 Immortal/Warp Prism • robo ~@8:16, 2 zealots +8 stalkers +9 sentries +2 immortals +1 warp             prism ~@11:12

Nexus First vs. T
      • 16 Nexus ~@2:32, gate ~@2:47, core ~@3:54

1 Gate Expand vs. T
      [image loading] » 20 food • Nexus ~@3:43, 5 stalkers @5:55
      [image loading] » ~30 food • 1 zealot +2 stalkers + Nexus ~@4:58

[image loading] 1 Gate Robo vs. P
      • 3 zealots +1 stalker +1 immortal @5:58, +2 zealots @6:17, 2nd immortal @6:33

[image loading] 3 Stalker Robo vs. P
      • %100 robo @6:06, 6 stalkers + 1 sentry @6:22

[image loading] 2 Gate Blink/Obs vs. P
      • 5 stalkers @5:58, +4 stalkers +blink @7:48 (robo +4 sec), obs @8:29

[image loading] 2 Gate fast Observer vs. T
      • nexus @6:00, 1 zealot +1 stalker +4 sentries +1 observer @6:13

[image loading] 2 Gate Stargate vs. T
      • 5 stalkers +1 voidray @6:26, +2 stalkers +2nd voidray @7:22

oGsMC Defensive 3 Gate vs. P
      [image loading] » oGsMc variant • 1 zealot +4 stalkers +2 sentries @6:01
      [image loading] » NrGmonk variant (^ see thread) • 1 zealot +4 stalkers +2 sentries @6:07

[image loading] Defensive 3 Gate vs. P
      • 1 zealot +6 stalkers @5:50

Sentry Expand vs Z
      [image loading] » 2 Gate • nexus @5:46, 1 zealot +6 sentries @6:20
      [image loading] » 3 Gate • nexus @5:37, 1 zealot +5 sentries @5:58

[image loading] 3 Gate Expand vs T
      • nexus @5:50, 3 stalkers +3 sentries @6:16
      oGsMC variant
      • nexus @4:55, 1 stalker +6 sentries @6:58, robo @7:28, forge +twilight @9:00, +3 gates @10:50

Immortal Push vs. T
      [image loading] » 1 Gate Expand • nexus @5:12, robo @5:34, 3 stalkers +7 sentries +2 immortals @9:08
      [image loading] » 3 Gate Expand • nexus @5:50, robo @6:17, 4 stalkers +6 sentries +2 immortals @8:44

[image loading] Dark Templar Rush
      • 1 zealot +3 dark templar @6:46

Dark Templar Expand
      [image loading] » vs. Z • 2 zealots +3 sentries @6:16, nexus @6:22, +1 zealot +2 dark templar @7:14
      [image loading] » vs. T • 4 zealots +1 stalker +1 sentry @6:10, nexus @7:06, +2 zealots +1 sentry +2 dark templar @8:00

Blink Stalker
      [image loading] » 4gate vs. Z • 8 stalkers @6:58, blink @7:10

[image loading] 1 Gas 4 Warpgate vs. P
      • wgr done @5:16, 1 zealot +6 stalkers @5:45

6 Gate vs. Z
      [image loading] » Forge FE • +1 attack +14 stalkers +4 sentries @9:30
      [image loading] » 3 Gate Expo • 10 zealots +9 stalkers +7 sentries @9:40 (off a 5 gate)

[image loading] 1 Gate Stargate vs Z
      • 2 phoenices +1 voidray @7:04 (+3 zealots +2 stalkers +1 sentry)

[image loading] +1 Warp Prism Drop vs. Z
      • tech complete @6:20, prism + 5 zealots @6:30

[image loading] 2 Base 3 Colossus Push vs. T
      • Nexus @4:24, robo bay + dbl forge @7:32, +1/0/1 + thermal lance + 3 zealots +8 stalkers +5 sentries +3 colossus       ~@11:15

2 Base dbl Forge vs. T
      • +2/0/2 + thermal lance + 17 zealots +15 stalkers +6 sentries +2 colossus ~@14:00


[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler +
3.1 Zerg General
      • 3:15 - Elapsed time from gas put down to ling speed finishing.
      • gas/pool - send drone for extractor at ~70mins (~100 gas when pool finishes).
      • A 10 pool completes @2:18.
      • 14 gas/pool, pool completes @3:12.
      • It takes ~3:10 from starting a Lair to having baneling/roach speed.
      • It takes ~3:33 from starting a Lair to having mutas on the field (~3:40 for corruptors).
      • From starting a Lair, to having both roach speed and tunneling claws is ~5:00.
      • It takes ~2:10 from starting an infestation pit, to having infestors in play with one fungal growth (beginning infestor             production when pathogen glands are ~%40 done, or 31/80). If you skip pathogen glands, you will have infestors with             one fungal in ~2:25.
      • From the time a Hive begins to having brood lords in play is ~3:54 (assumes you have made corruptors before greater             spire completes and have a spire before hive completes).
      • It takes ~3:40 from starting a Hive to having ultralisks in play.
      • If you begin a Lair when +1 is ~%50 (80/160), you will be able to begin +2 when the Lair finishes. Similarly, if you start             your Hive when +2 is ~%50 (~%20 if you need the infestation pit as well), you will be able to begin +3 when the Hive             completes.

3.2 Zerg Average Timings
These timings represent the average completion for various paths at the highest level of play regarding the current metagame (currently 1.4.3).
    • A Lair completes on average at ~9:21.
          ~8:43 zvp, ~9:03 zvt, ~10:19 zvz (swings approx. ±3 minutes)

    • A Spire on 2 bases completes on average ~@12:01 with 5-9 mutas able to be produced. ±60s discrepancies are
          possible as this timing is very dependent upon the amount of pressure put on the zerg.
           ~12:06 zvp, ~10:57 zvt, ~11:49 zvz (swinging drastically)
    • The Spire timing when preceded by an Infestation Pit completes on average ~@14:46
           ~13:44 zvp, ~13:37 zvt, zvz not viable (not enough data)

    • The average Infestation Pit before Spire completes at ~11:58.
          ~11:56 zvp, ~11:28 zvt, ~12:31 zvz
    • The average Infestation Pit after Spire completes at ~13:42.
          ~13:23 zvp, ~13:47 zvt, ~13:55 zvz

    • A Hive completes on average at ~16:52.
          ~16:10 zvp, ~16:33 zvt, ~17:23 zvz (swinging wildly)
    • A Hive where the Infestation Pit is first completes on average at ~15:52.
          ~15:26 zvp, ~15:02 zvt, ~17:08 zvz (swinging wildly)
3.3 Zerg Openings

      [image loading] » 6 Pool
            • 6pool, 6 lings @2:11

      [image loading] » 3 Roach Rush
            • 3 Roaches @3:33

      [image loading] » 3 Roach/Speedling vs. P
            • 3 Roaches @4:27, speed +12 lings @5:10

      [image loading] » Roach/Speedling All In vs. FFE P
            • 7 roaches + 10 speedlings @6:20

      [image loading] » 7 Roach Rush
            • 6 Roaches @4:43, 7th @4:50

      [image loading] » Baneling Bust
             • 6 banes +14 lings @5:20 (ZvZ: 1st 4 banelings possible @4:59)

      [image loading] » Roach/Speedling Expand vs. Z
             • +1 missle attk +13 roaches +38 speedlings @9:25

The timings below represent the earliest possible completion for each specific tech path. Beginning with lair tech, these timings will begin to vary, sometimes drastically, from normal/standard/stable playstyles.
+ Show Spoiler [earliest timngs] +
1 Base Play
      » 14 gas/pool, ling speed + queen +2 lings
             - transition to lair -
            • lair @5:22
            • spire @7:02, 4-5 mutas possible

2 Base Play

14 Gas/Pool
      • 14gas, 14pool, 15OL, queen + 2 lings, 20Hatch down ~@3:55, ling speed @5:02,

      *2nd queen begins when 1st inject is ~%85 done*

             transition to lair
              • lair @6:45
              • hydra den @7:25
              • infestation pit @7:35 -> pathogen glands @8:55
              • OL speed @7:45 -> ventral sacs @8:55
              • spire(see 3.2)/burrow @8:25
              • roach speed/baneling speed @8:35

             transition to hive
              • hive @9:15
              • ultralisk cavern @10:20
              • greater spire @10:55

14Pool/16Hatch
      » 16 Hatch down ~@2:42, 20 gas, ling speed @6:45

             transition to lair + 3rd queen
              • lair @7:10

Hatch First (dbl Queen)
      » 14Hatch • timings ~5s faster than 15hatch

      » 15Hatch • down ~@2:12, ling speed @6:15,

             transition to lair + 3rd queen
              • lair @6:33
              • hydra den @7:13
              • infestation pit @7:23 -> pathogen glands @8:43
              • OL speed @7:30 -> ventral sacs @8:40
              • spire(see 3.2)/burrow @8:13
              • roach speed/baneling speed @8:23

             transition to hive
              • hive @9:03
              • ultralisk cavern @10:08
              • greater spire @10:43



4.0 Acknolwedgements
+ Show Spoiler +
Thanks to the people who have helped in keeping this up to date and accurate
Big ♥'s to TL.net for advertising!
Najda, pAzand, monk, Sleight


5.0 References
~8% faster gas mining
Liquipedia II
Timing, A BroodWar [G] by Chill
SC2 Recommended Threads
Protoss FAQs
Ladder Map Analyzer Pics


+ Show Spoiler [Needed Additions] +

+ Show Spoiler [Deprecated] +
Deprecated Timings
+ Show Spoiler +
Either there were patch changes that made these openings (or timings) obsolete, or metagame shifts that effectively did the same

+ Show Spoiler [1.3.3 metagame timtings ZvX] +
      • A Lair completes on average at ~8:26.
            ~8:28 zvt, ~8:24 zvp, zvz swings drastically with this timing
      • A Spire on 2 bases completes on average ~@10:35 with 5-9 mutas able to be produced. +/- 60s discrepancies are             possible as this timing is very dependent upon the amount of pressure put on the zerg.
             ~10:20 zvt, ~10:51 zvp, zvz not viable (swings drastically)
      • The average Infestation Pit completes at ~12:31.
            ~12:24 zvt, ~12:14 zvp, ~12:54 zvz
      • A Hive completes on average at ~15:37.
            ~15:42 zvt, ~15:33 zvp, zvz not viable (again, swings drastically)

+ Show Spoiler [1.2 metagame timings ZvX] +
      • A Lair completes on average at ~8:00.
            ~7:48 zvt, ~8:03 zvp, zvz swings drastically with this timing
      • A Spire on 2 bases completes ~@9:12 with 5-9 mutas able to be produced. +/- 60s       discrepancies are possible as this timing is very dependent upon the amount of pressure put       on the zerg.
      • The average Infestation Pit completes at ~15:00.
            ~14:42 zvt, ~15:35 zvp, ~14:52 zvz
      • A Hive completes on average at ~17:00.
            ~16:54 zvt, ~17:20 zvp

+ Show Spoiler [Protoss, Pre 1.3.3] +
[image loading] 1 Gate Robo vs. P
      • 2 zealots +1 stalker +1 immortal @6:05, 2nd immortal @6:50

[image loading] 3 Gate Robo
      • 2 zealots +3 stalkers +1 sentry @6:04 (%100 robo 10s later)

[image loading] 3 Stalker Robo vs. P
      • 2 zealots +3 stalkers +2 sentries @6:26, +1 immortal @6:40

Blink Stalker
      [image loading] » 3gate • blink +5 stalkers @6:13

[image loading] 3 Gate Sentry Expand vs Z
      • 1 zealot +5 sentries + nexus @5:59

[image loading] 3 Gate Expand vs T
      • 3 stalkers +3 sentries @6:04, nexus @6:09

[image loading] 1 Gas 4 Warpgate
      • wgr done @5:16, 1 zealot +6 stalkers @5:45

[image loading] Korean 4 Gate
      • wgr done @4:58, 5 zealots @5:19

[image loading] Adelscott late gas vs P
      • 4 zealots @4:45, +2 stalkers @5:22

3 Gate Stargate vs T
      • 4 zealots +3 stalkers +2 sentries +2 voidrays @7:20

[image loading] 1 Base Colossus - Game 4
      • 1st colossus +10 zealots +3 stalkers +1 sentry +1 immortal @9:21


Poll: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?

Yes (262)
 
56%

Yes, but only if they are pro reps (159)
 
34%

No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement (25)
 
5%

meh... (14)
 
3%

No, Liquipedia takes care of this (6)
 
1%

466 total votes

Your vote: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): Yes, but only if they are pro reps
(Vote): No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement
(Vote): No, Liquipedia takes care of this
(Vote): meh...


Administrator
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
March 18 2011 13:07 GMT
#2
Oh, nice. This is very helpful.
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Vulcant
Profile Joined December 2010
United States53 Posts
March 18 2011 13:11 GMT
#3
Thanks, needed a couple BOs. Zerg player here.
Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results. -George S. Patton
dzieciol001
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland16 Posts
March 18 2011 13:12 GMT
#4
Update with BO and it will be super effective !
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 18 2011 17:11 GMT
#5
On March 18 2011 22:12 dzieciol001 wrote:
Update with BO and it will be super effective !
I will not add the order here, but was thinking of linking the Liquipedia page, or TL page where appropriate. I just have to figure out a concise way of doing that.
Administrator
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 17:27:01
March 18 2011 17:26 GMT
#6
I always assumed I was doing the standard 1 gas 4WG rush but I have 6 stalkers, a zealot, and my warpgates are finished warping in at like 5:45-5:50. I was looking at some GSL PVP VODs and I only seem to be 3-4 seconds off, not 20+ like your list here implies. Where can I find the build order for this apparently much faster rush?
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 23:30:36
March 18 2011 18:54 GMT
#7
On March 19 2011 02:26 Turgid wrote:
I always assumed I was doing the standard 1 gas 4WG rush but I have 6 stalkers, a zealot, and my warpgates are finished warping in at like 5:45-5:50. I was looking at some GSL PVP VODs and I only seem to be 3-4 seconds off, not 20+ like your list here implies. Where can I find the build order for this apparently much faster rush?
Bothers me when I do that. I re-examined the positions, and the 6 stalker version is inherently better, and completes at 5:44.
Administrator
gavinashun
Profile Joined October 2010
101 Posts
March 18 2011 20:25 GMT
#8
I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them?
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 22:36:27
March 18 2011 21:23 GMT
#9
On March 19 2011 05:25 gavinashun wrote:
I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them?
I only know of one other thread that is close to this one. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I did take a bit of the information from there.
Administrator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 18 2011 23:06 GMT
#10
OP has been updated with links to relevant Liquipedia pages!
Administrator
gavinashun
Profile Joined October 2010
101 Posts
March 18 2011 23:28 GMT
#11
On March 19 2011 06:23 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 05:25 gavinashun wrote:
I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them?
I only know of one other thread that is close to this one. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I did take a bit of the information from there.


Cool cool - thanks for putting together!
Najda
Profile Joined June 2010
United States3765 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 04:41:53
March 19 2011 01:55 GMT
#12
A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.

1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)
Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay)

2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15
Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines)

2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)
Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)
caracarn
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden141 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 02:25:03
March 19 2011 02:24 GMT
#13
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.
Jinro Whaiting!
Najda
Profile Joined June 2010
United States3765 Posts
March 19 2011 03:47 GMT
#14
On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.


I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.
H0bgawblin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States109 Posts
March 19 2011 03:51 GMT
#15
Can we have this sticked or on liquipedia or something? This is super important.
plbro81
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
117 Posts
March 19 2011 05:24 GMT
#16
at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.
AnxiousHippo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia1451 Posts
March 19 2011 10:02 GMT
#17
On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:
at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.


I feel like it helps Zerg a lot considering we play DRONEDRONEDRONE UNIIIIIIIIIITS
An apple a day keeps the Protoss away | TLHF
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 13:13:37
March 19 2011 13:11 GMT
#18
On March 19 2011 10:55 Najda wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.

1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)
Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay)

2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15
Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines)

2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)
Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)

I don't know, do people agree that this would be helpful?

Poll: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?

Yes (262)
 
56%

Yes, but only if they are pro reps (159)
 
34%

No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement (25)
 
5%

meh... (14)
 
3%

No, Liquipedia takes care of this (6)
 
1%

466 total votes

Your vote: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): Yes, but only if they are pro reps
(Vote): No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement
(Vote): No, Liquipedia takes care of this
(Vote): meh...


On March 19 2011 12:47 Najda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.

I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.

Partially this, and that you can always just add the approximate travel time to this in order to know when they are in your base. I didn't want to list those timings because the travel time on Shakuras is a lot longer than close air positions on LT or Meta, so there can be a lot of variance. I should mention that the 4warpgate and korean 4gate are obviously at or in your base at the above times.

On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:
at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.

These timings should represent the best possible times for these openings.
Administrator
Najda
Profile Joined June 2010
United States3765 Posts
March 19 2011 17:25 GMT
#19
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 19 2011 22:11 wo1fwood wrote:
On March 19 2011 10:55 Najda wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.

1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)
Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay)

2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15
Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines)

2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)
Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)

I don't know, do people agree that this would be helpful?

Poll: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?

Yes (262)
 
56%

Yes, but only if they are pro reps (159)
 
34%

No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement (25)
 
5%

meh... (14)
 
3%

No, Liquipedia takes care of this (6)
 
1%

466 total votes

Your vote: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): Yes, but only if they are pro reps
(Vote): No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement
(Vote): No, Liquipedia takes care of this
(Vote): meh...


On March 19 2011 12:47 Najda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.

I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.

Partially this, and that you can always just add the approximate travel time to this in order to know when they are in your base. I didn't want to list those timings because the travel time on Shakuras is a lot longer than close air positions on LT or Meta, so there can be a lot of variance. I should mention that the 4warpgate and korean 4gate are obviously at or in your base at the above times.

On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:
at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.

These timings should represent the best possible times for these openings.


In response to the poll, I think for a full game replay I'd definately want to see a pro to use it, but for the replays that I was providing (just reaching the timings and stopping) it'd be fine for anyone with decent mechanics to provide a replay. The variables are so limited in the early game that you can clearly see if the player is making a mistake or not.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 20 2011 12:00 GMT
#20
I would tend to agree with this^^, although I think I would set a few stipulations. For example, unless there is a defined worker count or the opening is an all in, # workers would matter as well. Another would be having to send out one worker to serve as a 'scout' at the appropriate time?
Administrator
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
March 20 2011 12:26 GMT
#21
This is great! I am not too worried about the replays, mainly because I compared this to my list of timings and most of them are within +/- 5s, suggesting careful proper play by the OP.

I would like to see each timing broken down by the MUs you can realistically use it in. Having a little redundancy is worth having an easier way to process this information.

Cheers!
One Love
caracarn
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden141 Posts
March 20 2011 13:49 GMT
#22
On March 19 2011 12:47 Najda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.


I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.


Oh i thought this was a guide to have a little better knowledge what the opponent was doing. For instance if July would have had the timings for a 3 gate expo in his head, he would have known that something was up because the expo was 20 seconds late..
Jinro Whaiting!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 20 2011 17:40 GMT
#23
On March 20 2011 22:49 caracarn wrote:
Oh i thought this was a guide to have a little better knowledge what the opponent was doing. For instance if July would have had the timings for a 3 gate expo in his head, he would have known that something was up because the expo was 20 seconds late..
It's a bit of both. As I mentioned before, there is a lot of variance in distance based on maps and spawn positions. I figured I'd leave it up to the player to know the travel distances on the maps, but maybe that could be another section..
Administrator
ma70
Profile Joined October 2010
253 Posts
March 20 2011 17:51 GMT
#24
Good thread. I totally forgot about my thread, but I think this one is way better and more organized.
Najda
Profile Joined June 2010
United States3765 Posts
March 20 2011 23:28 GMT
#25
On March 20 2011 22:49 caracarn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 12:47 Najda wrote:
On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.


I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.


Oh i thought this was a guide to have a little better knowledge what the opponent was doing. For instance if July would have had the timings for a 3 gate expo in his head, he would have known that something was up because the expo was 20 seconds late..


That too, I didn't even think of that!
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
March 20 2011 23:48 GMT
#26
3 Gate 1 Robo with 4 zealots/1 stalker/1 zealot can be achieved with full saturation in main like 30 seconds earlier than 6:05.
www.infinityseven.net
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-21 13:06:18
March 21 2011 13:04 GMT
#27
On March 21 2011 08:48 PJA wrote:
3 Gate 1 Robo with 4 zealots/1 stalker/1 zealot can be achieved with full saturation in main like 30 seconds earlier than 6:05.
What is the build order that allows this timing to be drastically different than what I achieved? Could you link or post a rep of this occurring?
Administrator
JeLLe04
Profile Joined March 2011
United States47 Posts
March 21 2011 13:06 GMT
#28
Cool post, thanks for the good info.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 23 2011 13:30 GMT
#29
OP has been updated with guidelines for submitting replays.
Administrator
FreezerJumps
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada653 Posts
March 23 2011 13:38 GMT
#30
Isn't this called Liquipedia?
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 23 2011 15:00 GMT
#31
On March 23 2011 22:38 FreezerJumps wrote:
Isn't this called Liquipedia?
You have a valid concern, and in an ideal world where LP had this information I would agree with your concerns. However, a good bit of this information is absent... and this thread is about best timings only, not the analysis of build orders.
Administrator
minimalistic
Profile Joined August 2010
Hungary157 Posts
March 24 2011 19:52 GMT
#32
Is there any chance of this list getting updated as soon as we evolve and getting used to 1.3 please?
"A baby Gracken dies every time you use Ghost + Mech" -unknown chat user
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 25 2011 11:52 GMT
#33
On March 25 2011 04:52 minimalistic wrote:
Is there any chance of this list getting updated as soon as we evolve and getting used to 1.3 please?
If I understand you correctly, are you asking when and if these timings will conform with patch 1.3? If that's the case, the only changes to times involve bunker and stim, which only covers 3 of these timings. Updates will happen periodically in order to keep up with the evolving landscape.
Administrator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 30 2011 12:38 GMT
#34
Terran section has been updated with revised timings and added replays.
Administrator
Marzocchi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States58 Posts
March 30 2011 15:35 GMT
#35
This is a great guide! Thank you for compiling it. =) Is the information on Liquipedia current as of the new patch?
Volka
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina408 Posts
March 30 2011 16:15 GMT
#36
Great work. Thanks!
http://www.starsite.com.ar
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 31 2011 14:19 GMT
#37
Protoss section has now been updated and revised. Replays added as well.
Administrator
Crackensan
Profile Joined August 2010
United States479 Posts
March 31 2011 14:25 GMT
#38
Great. Now I have to update my spreadsheet!

Thank youuuu! ♥ ♥
Tasteless: "Well this strategy is made of balls"--Concerning Fruitdealer Vs. BoXeR
Zaffy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom128 Posts
March 31 2011 16:42 GMT
#39
great thread, really useful
waffles
Koszmarny
Profile Joined October 2010
Poland13 Posts
March 31 2011 18:00 GMT
#40
This would make a great Liquipedia page.
Hexadecimal
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada55 Posts
March 31 2011 23:45 GMT
#41
This has helped me so much. Not only does it give you vital timing information that would take a lot of effort to accumulate on your own, but it also shows examples of how to execute certain build orders. This is wonderful because recently I've been having trouble with build orders and this post is exactly what I needed to improve my play. A big thanks to the OP and any of the contributors.
gavinashun
Profile Joined October 2010
101 Posts
April 01 2011 00:04 GMT
#42
Really awesome!
Vison
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada53 Posts
April 01 2011 03:17 GMT
#43
Thank you so much as a low platinum player I thank you for making these timings more apparent to me ^_^ so far it has helped me win around 10 games.
XDJuicebox
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States593 Posts
April 01 2011 03:19 GMT
#44
I'd kiss you on the lips if we met in person

Thank you thank you THANK YOU!
And then you know what happened all of a sudden?
NorNor
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom15 Posts
April 01 2011 08:55 GMT
#45
Most useful post I have ever found browsing TL simply due to the fact that I play Zerg and I feel that as such I should be able to look at the time at any given point in the early game and know what I should have to expect. Thank you.
Tommylew
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Wales2717 Posts
April 01 2011 10:15 GMT
#46
nifty, need some help to check what ime certain things will come.

Thanks very much.
Live and Let Die!
trippycarrot
Profile Joined June 2010
United States37 Posts
April 01 2011 19:04 GMT
#47
I want to say thank you so much for keeping this updated! looking forward to some zerg replays ^^
Deferred
Profile Joined April 2011
1 Post
April 01 2011 20:12 GMT
#48
Thanks for the post!

I downloaded your 3-gate blink stalker build and the replay was of a 2-gate robo build. If you could switch that up that would be a huge help.

Thanks
Schnullerbacke13
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1199 Posts
April 01 2011 20:31 GMT
#49
[remember] well done !
21 is half the truth
deadmau
Profile Joined September 2010
960 Posts
April 01 2011 21:32 GMT
#50
This piece of work is quite useful and helpful, thanks for your contribution.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 01 2011 21:56 GMT
#51
On April 02 2011 05:12 Deferred wrote:
I downloaded your 3-gate blink stalker build and the replay was of a 2-gate robo build. If you could switch that up that would be a huge help.
Thanks
Whoops! Apparently the 3 stalker robo was in two places, it has since been fixed.
Administrator
zZygote
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada898 Posts
April 01 2011 22:01 GMT
#52
Lol, I find this to be somewhat useful... but it's not like a human being is going to remember ALL these timings. Well, just maybe someone might be able to.
Better than IdrA
Profile Joined March 2011
Ukraine50 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-01 22:05:39
April 01 2011 22:05 GMT
#53
SIX POOL!

Don't forget to send your drones!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 03 2011 12:44 GMT
#54
Zerg section has been updated with a few added replays. All updates now conform with patch 1.3.
Administrator
Haarp
Profile Joined December 2010
United States38 Posts
April 04 2011 16:51 GMT
#55
Wonder if there's a way to incorporate these sorts of things into the YABOT. Maybe specify pushes that come at the times they would most likely come at so that someone could try and be ready for them. Something like that. I'm just spitballing.

Anways, thanks for the post. Very helpful.
The party is now, not there.
Vansetsu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1454 Posts
April 04 2011 16:51 GMT
#56
Great resource! Bookmarked ^^
Only by overcoming many obstacles does a river become - デイヴィ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ド
pockie
Profile Joined May 2010
United States30 Posts
April 04 2011 16:55 GMT
#57
this thread is awesome and has great potential if you keep updating this constantly! keep up the good work!
anon
dstryr
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States69 Posts
April 04 2011 18:01 GMT
#58
Just what I've been looking for. Thanks so much for starting this thread
Mazzoo
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
April 04 2011 18:05 GMT
#59
I was thinking this as i walked through my door this afternoon.

please marry me!
pAzand
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden539 Posts
April 04 2011 18:08 GMT
#60
Very well done! Checking out the P replays later on
If you can chill.. Chill!
ferry
Profile Joined December 2010
27 Posts
April 04 2011 18:16 GMT
#61
Pretty sure 7RR can be done so that 7 roaches spawn slightly before 4:40, like 4:36 or 4:38; this comes from evolution chamber (the program).
0mgVitaminE
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1278 Posts
April 04 2011 18:28 GMT
#62
Cool thread, saw the tl update on fb and checked it out. Gonna help a lot of people
Hi there. I'm in a cave, how bout you?
OngakuSak
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada17 Posts
April 04 2011 18:40 GMT
#63
I was just thinking about something like this not two days ago. Awesome stuff, keep up the good work!
Maximumraver
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands124 Posts
April 04 2011 18:40 GMT
#64
WOW! amazing thread man, great contribution
(☞/  ̄ヮ ̄) ☞/
MrBarryObama
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)141 Posts
April 04 2011 18:47 GMT
#65
this thread is the mf boss, thank you
Drock
Profile Joined October 2010
United States305 Posts
April 04 2011 19:19 GMT
#66
Thanks so much! I just favorited this page as I have a feeling I will be visiting it often.
I kinda miss Idra...
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
April 04 2011 19:20 GMT
#67
This is awesome. I have just spent 4 weeks writing down timings in my notebook, and when I am comparing those to the timings in this thread, it makes me smile . Good work!
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
April 04 2011 19:29 GMT
#68
Amazing thread. I hope more people catch the TL tweet and check this out. Nice work.
#TeamBuLba
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
April 04 2011 20:31 GMT
#69
amazing work...thank you so much for this
Zedromas
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada112 Posts
April 04 2011 21:57 GMT
#70
Awesomely amazing work OP! I will surely be coming back to this thread many, many times.

Great job and thank-you!
But she said she was 18!!!!
Stipulation
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States587 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 22:23:59
April 04 2011 22:22 GMT
#71
This could be even more useful if it were more specific. If you are really trying to nail down a build you need to know the variations of your opponents build.

eg w/ DT
Gases on 14 and 21 w/ stalker first.
Gases on 14 and after first stalker chase scout worker away ~26

What if opponent gas steals and a zealot is made during core which destroys the stolen gas then gas is taken?
As we saw in MLG this weekend Kiwi had his pvp build timed perfectly so that he got an observer right as the DT got to his base in this very situation.

How long does it take if player has no gas and 2 geysers to warp in a dt?

Unfortunately I'm too busy to work on this now, but I hope to be able to contribute in the future.
Automata
Profile Joined March 2011
393 Posts
April 04 2011 22:23 GMT
#72
Can anyone comment on their experience with Adelscott's PVP build listed against 4 gates and how viable it is against it?
knightwulf
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada174 Posts
April 04 2011 22:25 GMT
#73
what is the timing for hatch first mutas?
pAzand
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden539 Posts
April 04 2011 22:33 GMT
#74
3 gate sentry expand vs zerg can be done quicker, even I did it in 05:53 with a probe more than the replay showing.
If you can chill.. Chill!
Eeeegor
Profile Joined April 2005
Australia809 Posts
April 04 2011 23:09 GMT
#75
Wow this is awesome - thanks for providing this!
Day9 Made Me Do It
SelectStaR
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom129 Posts
April 04 2011 23:10 GMT
#76
very nice xxx
Lead By Example
TR
Profile Joined February 2011
2320 Posts
April 04 2011 23:10 GMT
#77
Thanks really much for this! Really helpful
Hoon
Profile Joined December 2010
Brazil891 Posts
April 04 2011 23:11 GMT
#78
16 hatch 15 pool 40 gas!
SEn Fanclub: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170834
KWest
Profile Joined September 2010
United States59 Posts
April 05 2011 00:12 GMT
#79
Great thread man. So helpful.
LocsomFKC
Profile Joined March 2011
Peru44 Posts
April 05 2011 00:18 GMT
#80
great thread!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 05 2011 00:27 GMT
#81
On April 05 2011 07:23 Automata wrote:
Can anyone comment on their experience with Adelscott's PVP build listed against 4 gates and how viable it is against it?
I would go look at the original TL thread. Theres some good responses there.

On April 05 2011 07:33 pAzand wrote:
3 gate sentry expand vs zerg can be done quicker, even I did it in 05:53 with a probe more than the replay showing.
I'll take a look, but if you don't mind following the instructions and submitting a rep of this, I'd be happy to accept it.

On April 05 2011 03:16 ferry wrote:
Pretty sure 7RR can be done so that 7 roaches spawn slightly before 4:40, like 4:36 or 4:38; this comes from evolution chamber (the program).
^^see above^^ Or if you find one showing this, that works as well.
Administrator
DurandaL917
Profile Joined December 2010
United States92 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-05 00:58:16
April 05 2011 00:54 GMT
#82
Really great post! I bookmarked it and I am sure that I will be referring to it time and time again as I try and improve. thanks for all the work you put into it
we make post and then we defense it
FiercE
Profile Joined March 2010
United States78 Posts
April 05 2011 01:11 GMT
#83
On April 05 2011 09:54 DurandaL917 wrote:
Really great post! I bookmarked it and I am sure that I will be referring to it time and time again as I try and improve. thanks for all the work you put into it

How do you bookmark a thread cuz I want to bookmark this thread
Imagine punching somebody so hard that they turn into a door. Then you found out that's where ALL doors come from, and you got initiated into a murder club that makes doors. The stronger you punch, the better the door.
Roerik
Profile Joined August 2010
31 Posts
April 05 2011 02:49 GMT
#84
Been thinking for awhile asking myself why this exact thing does not exist yet, now it does. Great job, bookmarked.
Public opinion has a way of changing.
bankai
Profile Joined November 2010
362 Posts
April 05 2011 04:11 GMT
#85
Just to check quickly - When it says 7 roach rush is at 4:50min, i assume that is the time the roaches hatch...so therefore they can attack you around say 5:10min (assuming a small map)??
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10339 Posts
April 05 2011 04:17 GMT
#86
Wow, didn't see this thread till now, but thanks this will be very very useful :D
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
EliteReplay
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Dominican Republic913 Posts
April 05 2011 04:26 GMT
#87
thanks very helpfull!!!
if play random i can't call any race imba?
pyrestrike
Profile Joined October 2010
United States235 Posts
April 05 2011 04:41 GMT
#88
Awesome post wo1fwood! It's really cool seeing the collection of timings in one space, if just to study the game.

I am really tempted to put together a LP article or set of articles with this info, to provide a chart and organization to it, would you be interested in collaborating on it? I say tempted for now because I am kind of bogged down with RL work but if you are interested I will try to make some time ^_^
( ^_^)o自自o(^_^ )
flanksteak
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada246 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-05 05:21:15
April 05 2011 05:17 GMT
#89
Great thread! I was just looking at some timings today, maybe you'd like to include this too, if anyone finds it useful:

QXC vs Ret on MLG Metalopolis.

TvZ:
reactor hellions --> 1 port banshee (no cloak, no blue flame)
Replay here: http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/140-22295.html

@5:30 --> 4 Hellions
@6:20 --> 1st banshee pops
@7:20 --> 2nd banshee

edit: QXC expands as well, @6:40 (?). There are a lot of transitions/variations obviously, but I feel like I've seen it enough times
pAzand
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden539 Posts
April 05 2011 09:34 GMT
#90
On April 05 2011 09:27 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2011 07:23 Automata wrote:
Can anyone comment on their experience with Adelscott's PVP build listed against 4 gates and how viable it is against it?
I would go look at the original TL thread. Theres some good responses there.

Show nested quote +
On April 05 2011 07:33 pAzand wrote:
3 gate sentry expand vs zerg can be done quicker, even I did it in 05:53 with a probe more than the replay showing.
I'll take a look, but if you don't mind following the instructions and submitting a rep of this, I'd be happy to accept it.

Show nested quote +
On April 05 2011 03:16 ferry wrote:
Pretty sure 7RR can be done so that 7 roaches spawn slightly before 4:40, like 4:36 or 4:38; this comes from evolution chamber (the program).
^^see above^^ Or if you find one showing this, that works as well.


Oh, ofc, sorry! http://drop.sc/users/42897/uploads - Still som glitches in my execution though, done in 05:53.
If you can chill.. Chill!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-05 13:56:55
April 05 2011 13:40 GMT
#91
On April 05 2011 13:11 bankai wrote:
Just to check quickly - When it says 7 roach rush is at 4:50min, i assume that is the time the roaches hatch...so therefore they can attack you around say 5:10min (assuming a small map)??
you can watch the rep attached to confirm but yes, the roaches hatched at those times.

On April 05 2011 18:34 pAzand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2011 09:27 wo1fwood wrote:
On April 05 2011 07:23 Automata wrote:
Can anyone comment on their experience with Adelscott's PVP build listed against 4 gates and how viable it is against it?
I would go look at the original TL thread. Theres some good responses there.

On April 05 2011 07:33 pAzand wrote:
3 gate sentry expand vs zerg can be done quicker, even I did it in 05:53 with a probe more than the replay showing.
I'll take a look, but if you don't mind following the instructions and submitting a rep of this, I'd be happy to accept it.

On April 05 2011 03:16 ferry wrote:
Pretty sure 7RR can be done so that 7 roaches spawn slightly before 4:40, like 4:36 or 4:38; this comes from evolution chamber (the program).
^^see above^^ Or if you find one showing this, that works as well.
Oh, ofc, sorry! http://drop.sc/users/42897/uploads - Still som glitches in my execution though, done in 05:53.
Your completion time here is 6 seconds later, at 5:59. Warping in units is not the same as having them. Your probe count was better however. Thanks for the submission, it's been added to the OP.
Administrator
CrayonKing
Profile Joined August 2010
Cambodia124 Posts
April 05 2011 14:13 GMT
#92
For your:

1 Rax FE
» vs Z • 1 marine + %70 reaper + CC ~@3:58
» vs P • 1 marine + 2 marauders + CC ~@4:43
» vs T • 1 marine + CC ~@3:48

is the CC when you start building? or is that the time its suppose to finish
telepip
Profile Joined October 2010
United States5 Posts
April 05 2011 14:42 GMT
#93
Very helpful, thank you
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 05 2011 15:55 GMT
#94
On April 05 2011 23:13 CrayonKing wrote:
is the CC when you start building? or is that the time its suppose to finish
when it goes down.
Administrator
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
April 05 2011 16:32 GMT
#95
1 racks FE against protoss is actually

depot, barracks, 1 marine, command center, bunker bunker. Then from there your econ is high enough to pump multiple racks of marines to fill up the bunkers and if a 4 gate is scouted then you can throw down extra bunkers, but it is a safe opening on maps with a choked natural ie: shattered temple
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 05 2011 19:05 GMT
#96
On April 06 2011 01:32 Zlasher wrote:
1 racks FE against protoss is actually

depot, barracks, 1 marine, command center, bunker bunker. Then from there your econ is high enough to pump multiple racks of marines to fill up the bunkers and if a 4 gate is scouted then you can throw down extra bunkers, but it is a safe opening on maps with a choked natural ie: shattered temple
I thought about adding this variation before, and on second thought it probably would be useful to do so.
Administrator
CrayonKing
Profile Joined August 2010
Cambodia124 Posts
April 05 2011 19:41 GMT
#97
On April 06 2011 01:32 Zlasher wrote:
1 racks FE against protoss is actually

depot, barracks, 1 marine, command center, bunker bunker. Then from there your econ is high enough to pump multiple racks of marines to fill up the bunkers and if a 4 gate is scouted then you can throw down extra bunkers, but it is a safe opening on maps with a choked natural ie: shattered temple


where do you place that first bunker? ramp?

Are you buiilding this CC in base or at natural
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 06 2011 00:21 GMT
#98
On April 06 2011 04:41 CrayonKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2011 01:32 Zlasher wrote:
1 racks FE against protoss is actually

depot, barracks, 1 marine, command center, bunker bunker. Then from there your econ is high enough to pump multiple racks of marines to fill up the bunkers and if a 4 gate is scouted then you can throw down extra bunkers, but it is a safe opening on maps with a choked natural ie: shattered temple
where do you place that first bunker? ramp?

Are you buiilding this CC in base or at natural
It depends on the map. If you have an easily defensible natural then you could build them there, otherwise it could be risky as more attack paths are more difficult to defend. If you haven't seen Day[9] Daily #101, that might help.
Administrator
statikg
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada930 Posts
April 06 2011 00:30 GMT
#99
What is the typical 6gate timing?
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 01:00:24
April 06 2011 00:47 GMT
#100
On April 06 2011 09:30 statikg wrote:
What is the typical 6gate timing?
I think its around the 9 minute mark (PvZ) but I don't remember exactly. I need to add this, but have to look some things up first.
Administrator
Nairi
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland75 Posts
April 06 2011 02:09 GMT
#101
if a zerg fast expands how quickly can he get 12 mutas? according to the list spire is done at 8:13 but presumably 12 mutas can not be made immidiately?

Live long and prosper -Han Solo. Twitter: @Nairisc
IzieBoy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 02:45:38
April 06 2011 02:28 GMT
#102
favorite rush is the blink stalker one... anyone have replays for blink stalker and dark templar rushes?

EDIT: I got the ones from the OP. I was wondering if I can get more examples of well executed ones.

P.S. Can we get some replays for 1 Rax FE? Preferably from a tourney?
Let's Do This! Leeeeeeeeeeeeeroy Jenkins!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-11 20:57:02
April 06 2011 12:09 GMT
#103
On April 06 2011 11:09 Nairi wrote:
if a zerg fast expands how quickly can he get 12 mutas? according to the list spire is done at 8:13 but presumably 12 mutas can not be made immidiately?

you're only going to get about 5-8 mutas on the first pop depending on when the spire went down. I need to do some research into fastest times vs. average pro times as I've seen the spire complete about 1 minute later than this timing quite a lot.

Edit: As I suspected, the average 2 base spire timing completed around 9:12 with 5-9 mutas being available at that time. This was however extremely dependent on the amount of pressure put on the zerg. Sometimes they could get the spire out a 8:14, other times 9:50. Sometimes they had the spire but could not produce any mutas.
Administrator
statikg
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada930 Posts
April 06 2011 13:06 GMT
#104
Typically mutas come at 10-13 minutes, if they hit you before 10 I have to say you probably didn't apply enough early game pressure. At least in TvZ mutas basically ALWAYS come. The only macro game situation in which you won't see mutas is if you see infestors first. Then you might still see mutas, but not for a while, and when they do come they probably will come in numbers too large to defend by turrets, build one turret in the middle of your mineral line anyway. If you can't find a spire, and there is no giant 2base baneling bust coming and no infestors, they have hidden it, prepare for mutas anyway.
Alexbeav
Profile Joined August 2010
Greece56 Posts
April 06 2011 13:30 GMT
#105
i love you man! life-saving post! might actually make me switch to random from terran once i get my 250 wins achi :D
TwoMagTrav
Profile Joined January 2011
United States195 Posts
April 06 2011 14:09 GMT
#106
Awesome thread! Makes it easy to see where you're at when coming up with a new build.
When I feed the poor they call me a saint, when I ask why the poor have no food they call me a socialist
CrayonKing
Profile Joined August 2010
Cambodia124 Posts
April 08 2011 15:39 GMT
#107
What is the best way to defend against a 4WG rush or any early rush by P if you 1rax FE.

Is dropping 2 rax infront of ur nat sufficient?
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 08 2011 16:50 GMT
#108
On April 09 2011 00:39 CrayonKing wrote:
What is the best way to defend against a 4WG rush or any early rush by P if you 1rax FE.

Is dropping 2 rax infront of ur nat sufficient?

I assume you mean 2 bunkers and not rax, but this should answer your question:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209914
Administrator
lelantos
Profile Joined March 2011
United States41 Posts
April 09 2011 02:30 GMT
#109
great guide really helped me but whats difference between say 4 warpgate and 4 gate with 1 gas?
Tonic420
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada59 Posts
April 09 2011 03:06 GMT
#110
Best thread ever! Thank you so much for posting this, will help a ton when trying to analyze my replays!
Blah!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 09 2011 12:17 GMT
#111
On April 09 2011 11:30 lelantos wrote:
great guide really helped me but whats difference between say 4 warpgate and 4 gate with 1 gas?

I think this should answer your question
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4_Warpgate_Rush
Administrator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 09 2011 14:02 GMT
#112
Banner has been added to the OP!
Administrator
Distortionz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States133 Posts
April 09 2011 16:09 GMT
#113
I really like this guide.. I think its a great idea. I feel alot of people can't really stick to multiple BO's and have no idea about the importance of timing within them. As day9 said in one of his daily's.. in most cases using timing, you can even tell the spawn location of the other players.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 12 2011 21:35 GMT
#114
Added a quick references section. There's also a Broodwar guide by Chill that explains the importance of timing.
Administrator
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
April 12 2011 21:40 GMT
#115
K4G timing seems a bit off... if research is done at 47, then zealots should be in the opponent's base 10 seconds later, 4:10 at the latest not 4:19.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 21:50:55
April 12 2011 21:48 GMT
#116
On April 13 2011 06:40 Anihc wrote:
K4G timing seems a bit off... if research is done at 47, then zealots should be in the opponent's base 10 seconds later, 4:10 at the latest not 4:19.
There's that short period where the wg transform is occurring, so that adds 10 seconds before you can actually warp in any units. The 4:47/8 time is when wgr at the core finishes. Do you think it's better to list the actual time where you can begin to warp in units rather than the research completion?
Administrator
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
April 12 2011 22:12 GMT
#117
wow sick thread. bookmarked
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
JasinAli
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden37 Posts
April 12 2011 22:40 GMT
#118
Would anyone be so kind to get the timing for planetary fortress rush? I dont play terran so mine wouldnt be optimal
I'm semi bad at everything I do.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 12 2011 23:04 GMT
#119
On April 13 2011 07:40 JasinAli wrote:
Would anyone be so kind to get the timing for planetary fortress rush? I dont play terran so mine wouldnt be optimal
I've been meaning to add this... aaand done. Read Plexa's thread though, it's kind of important.
Administrator
Xanczor
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States254 Posts
April 13 2011 23:53 GMT
#120
Could you add the mass ling infestor +1 attack and +1 armor for zerg? thanks.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100673&currentpage=22
jlim
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Spain943 Posts
April 14 2011 19:42 GMT
#121
very very cool stuff OP

thank you a lot when you're a n00b the hardest thing is to start a game and not getting behind because of a weak opening
crouton
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada9 Posts
April 16 2011 00:41 GMT
#122
Very helpful post. As a player just starting to learn the game it's very helpful to know not only some good opening options, but also what times you can expect certain units to hit your base. And seeing what the precursor unit and building timings are to units and pushes it gives a better idea of what to scout for other than just obvious early cheese.

The most common insights given to low league players are "always build harvesters, don't get supply blocked, focus on mechanics, and keep your money low by always building units or structures". All good general points and very important to do, but it seems like the most difficult things to do are 1) know what units to build when (easy to spend money building 'something', not as easy to know what to focus your funds on); 2) knowing when to move forward and 3) knowing timings when certain units of your opponent can be on the field (cloaked banshees, etc). And really, if you read one post about SC2 gameplay you'll know all the general tips (economy/macro/hotkeys). It's good to see some helpful content that falls between the very basics and discussion on high-level builds/games.
Shaoling
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden344 Posts
April 20 2011 18:20 GMT
#123
I think it would be nice to have the timing of the expansion. for example in "reactor hellion expand". it would be nice to have @MM:SS OC lands at natural

So that if it doesnt land at that time you know somethings going on.

Great job by the way please keep it updated and rolling!
www.feelingcontemptuous.com - My music website [Dubstep/Electro/House]
sixzeros
Profile Joined December 2010
72 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 09:38:23
April 23 2011 09:32 GMT
#124
The wzp 3Roach speedling build deserves a mention...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190292
**I couldnt find the post which has the replay of wzp beating travis/tyler? with it.


Ncinerates 3Roach all in @ 3:35
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195049

Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 23 2011 17:33 GMT
#125
On April 23 2011 18:32 sixzeros wrote:
The wzp 3Roach speedling build deserves a mention...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190292
**I couldnt find the post which has the replay of wzp beating travis/tyler? with it.

Ncinerates 3Roach all in @ 3:35
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195049

Thanks for reminding me that these existed.
Administrator
ssartor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States129 Posts
April 24 2011 00:10 GMT
#126
Does anyone know the quickest a terran can get banshees to your base if you steal one of his gases? This would be a great help to us zergies.
"If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn." — Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)
thesauceishot
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada333 Posts
April 24 2011 00:12 GMT
#127
Wow this is a very informative thread. Thanks!
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
April 24 2011 01:54 GMT
#128
On April 24 2011 09:10 ssartor wrote:
Does anyone know the quickest a terran can get banshees to your base if you steal one of his gases? This would be a great help to us zergies.


It's the same time as normal. They just won't have cloak. A gas steal doesn't even slow down Banshee builds. It just prevents cloak by about 1 minute game time if he doesn't add a 2nd gas. It delays it by less the quicker he takes his 2nd gas.

The gas steal stops Cloak, Thors, and Siege Tech. It does not stop Stim or Blue Flame.
One Love
KevinIX
Profile Joined October 2009
United States2472 Posts
May 05 2011 01:37 GMT
#129
I just wanted to say that this is the most valuable thread in SC2 Strategy to me. Keep it up.
Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Exley
Profile Joined April 2011
United States239 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-12 22:43:17
May 12 2011 22:40 GMT
#130
GREAT thread! Saved me so much time in figuring out when the latest I can throw down an evo chamber or get ling speed, etc. Thanks ----


One addition: Nestea Spine crawler rush vs. FFE, the spines go down at 6:00
buncool
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
France70 Posts
May 13 2011 12:08 GMT
#131
Thank you this thread is really usefull to me
When you're ahead, get more ahead !!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 16:35:58
May 13 2011 13:46 GMT
#132
OP has been updated. The Zerg Averages section now include Lair, Pit, and Hive timings.

Edit: also added 14pool/16hatch
Administrator
NorwegianRage
Profile Joined March 2010
United States71 Posts
May 14 2011 17:16 GMT
#133
Thank you for keeping the OP current. After the D9D about deductive scouting knowing the all the timings for every match-up is critical. Someone should make like a timeline for each races builds, that would be immensely helpful for the deductive scouting theory.
Adrenalin
Profile Joined August 2009
46 Posts
May 14 2011 19:25 GMT
#134
Thanks Op. Would be nice to get replay with the exact timing for each build order.
DurandaL917
Profile Joined December 2010
United States92 Posts
July 01 2011 14:21 GMT
#135
This is such a great reference but I was wondering if there were any plans to update the Protoss section to reflect the longer warp gate research time?
we make post and then we defense it
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
July 04 2011 11:48 GMT
#136
On July 01 2011 23:21 DurandaL917 wrote:
This is such a great reference but I was wondering if there were any plans to update the Protoss section to reflect the longer warp gate research time?

I've been meaning to do this for a while, but life keeps interrupting me. I hope to remedy that soon.
Administrator
Deadbread
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany143 Posts
July 06 2011 18:05 GMT
#137
Yeah this is very helpful.
I would appreciate the timing of a 6gate vs Terran.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-28 21:13:01
July 28 2011 20:14 GMT
#138
Wow, OK so I finally got off my ass and updated this thread to include the 1.3.3 changes. I've also removed some obsolete protoss builds (in the deprecated section), added two PvP 3 Gate builds, the PvT 2 Gate obs(incomplete) and the TvT 3 Reaper opening.

Edit: 2 Gate Obs Expand is now complete
Administrator
TumbaSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States78 Posts
July 29 2011 22:48 GMT
#139
Can't thank wo1fwood enough for this thread! But I can try. Thank you very much. I'm surprised that liquidpedia doesn't have an entry for Forge FE • +1 attack +14 stalkers +4 sentries @9:30. I remember Artosis saying in SOTG that this heavy stalker play is becoming dominant in Korea. Prevalent may be a better word for it.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 00:24:03
July 29 2011 23:30 GMT
#140
On July 07 2011 03:05 Deadbread wrote:
Yeah this is very helpful.
I would appreciate the timing of a 6gate vs Terran.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231896

That covers the build pretty well, but I'll look into some reps to see if there are any differences or major swings in timings.

EDIT: OK, looks like MC's version is a 3 gate » robo » forge + twilight » +3 gates. the timing is 10:50 for it all to be done. Aaand added the 6 gate.

On July 30 2011 07:48 TumbaStarcraft wrote:
Can't thank wo1fwood enough for this thread! But I can try. Thank you very much. I'm surprised that liquidpedia doesn't have an entry for Forge FE • +1 attack +14 stalkers +4 sentries @9:30. I remember Artosis saying in SOTG that this heavy stalker play is becoming dominant in Korea. Prevalent may be a better word for it.

♥'s man. I did this because TL.net has already helped me be so much better than when I started a year ago. I may actually be OK at this game now (maybe) because of this community.
Administrator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
August 01 2011 12:54 GMT
#141
OP has been updated with the Marine/Raven/Banshee/Tank timing push vs. P.
Administrator
CodeskyE
Profile Joined January 2011
United States777 Posts
August 01 2011 12:57 GMT
#142
is it possible that you can make a PDF version of this? thank you.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
August 02 2011 13:55 GMT
#143
On August 01 2011 21:57 Codeskye wrote:
is it possible that you can make a PDF version of this? thank you.

Done.
Administrator
DeLoReAn
Profile Joined October 2010
United States81 Posts
August 02 2011 17:51 GMT
#144
this
is
awesome

thanks!
Dota2 is my escape.
Equity213
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada873 Posts
August 02 2011 17:55 GMT
#145
Very cool figuring out all those timings. I will def have a look @ this. thanks brah!
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
August 02 2011 17:59 GMT
#146
Great tool. Thanks.
Kommissar
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia48 Posts
August 03 2011 07:57 GMT
#147
Thanks so much, I'm commentating on youtube and this is a big help for that, and for my ladder too
www.youtube.com/user/c0mmissar1
jnkw
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada347 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-03 08:04:23
August 03 2011 08:03 GMT
#148
Looks good -- only thing is, has the 4gate section been updated for the latest patch?
zorion
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden72 Posts
August 03 2011 08:19 GMT
#149
Thanks alot for the .PDF
Very good job indeed =D
have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?
Wawarox
Profile Joined July 2011
161 Posts
August 03 2011 10:13 GMT
#150
thanks op for this amazing thread
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-03 10:27:14
August 03 2011 10:24 GMT
#151
«• The average Infestation Pit completes at ~15:00.»
Regarding the current metagame, I'm not that sure of this assertion :/ I tend to have BLs on 4 bases by the 15:00 mark now.

I think having the 2 bases roach speedling all in done quite a lot in ZvZ and PvZ in the timings would also help !

Thank you very much for all the hard work !
The legend of Darien lives on
ticktack
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Arab Emirates874 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-03 13:58:07
August 03 2011 13:29 GMT
#152
Adding gas first timings will be really good too( for terran ). Since they have been getting more popular lately

A winner is just a loser who got pissed off and tried harder
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-03 13:58:05
August 03 2011 13:56 GMT
#153
On August 03 2011 17:03 jnkw wrote:
Looks good -- only thing is, has the 4gate section been updated for the latest patch?

Yep. It only changed ~3 seconds. The major change is that you will scout it if he's going 4 gate. If you chronoboost your stalker, the timing is delayed 10 sec.

On August 03 2011 19:24 mr_tolkien wrote:
«• The average Infestation Pit completes at ~15:00.»
Regarding the current metagame, I'm not that sure of this assertion :/ I tend to have BLs on 4 bases by the 15:00 mark now.

I think having the 2 bases roach speedling all in done quite a lot in ZvZ and PvZ in the timings would also help !

Thank you very much for all the hard work !

I know the PvZ timing, but not the ZvZ...oh wait, do you mean This?. Also yea, with the usage to infestors going wayy up recently I would imagine that this timing has changed a bit. I still need to weed through MLG Columbus and add those timings in, or scrap the old ones if they're very different. Thanks for keeping me up to date.

On August 03 2011 22:29 ticktack wrote:
Adding gas first timings will be really good too( for terran ). Since they have been getting more popular lately

If you mean for the recent blu flame hellion play, it's already gas first. The factroy goes down about 3:12 If you delay your first marine it could be about ~-6-8s faster.
Administrator
ticktack
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Arab Emirates874 Posts
August 03 2011 14:00 GMT
#154
On August 03 2011 22:56 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2011 17:03 jnkw wrote:
Looks good -- only thing is, has the 4gate section been updated for the latest patch?

Yep. It only changed ~3 seconds. The major change is that you will scout it if he's going 4 gate. If you chronoboost your stalker, the timing is delayed 10 sec.

Show nested quote +
On August 03 2011 19:24 mr_tolkien wrote:
«• The average Infestation Pit completes at ~15:00.»
Regarding the current metagame, I'm not that sure of this assertion :/ I tend to have BLs on 4 bases by the 15:00 mark now.

I think having the 2 bases roach speedling all in done quite a lot in ZvZ and PvZ in the timings would also help !

Thank you very much for all the hard work !

I know the PvZ timing, but not the ZvZ...oh wait, do you mean This?. Also yea, with the usage to infestors going wayy up recently I would imagine that this timing has changed a bit. I still need to weed through MLG Columbus and add those timings in, or scrap the old ones if they're very different. Thanks for keeping me up to date.

Show nested quote +
On August 03 2011 22:29 ticktack wrote:
Adding gas first timings will be really good too( for terran ). Since they have been getting more popular lately

If you mean for the recent blu flame hellion play, it's already gas first. The factroy goes down about 3:12 If you delay your first marine it could be about ~-6-8s faster.


Ah ok. Gas First banshees comes out 20 seconds earlier. Might want to add that?
A winner is just a loser who got pissed off and tried harder
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
August 03 2011 14:05 GMT
#155
On August 03 2011 23:00 ticktack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2011 22:56 wo1fwood wrote:
On August 03 2011 17:03 jnkw wrote:
Looks good -- only thing is, has the 4gate section been updated for the latest patch?

Yep. It only changed ~3 seconds. The major change is that you will scout it if he's going 4 gate. If you chronoboost your stalker, the timing is delayed 10 sec.

On August 03 2011 19:24 mr_tolkien wrote:
«• The average Infestation Pit completes at ~15:00.»
Regarding the current metagame, I'm not that sure of this assertion :/ I tend to have BLs on 4 bases by the 15:00 mark now.

I think having the 2 bases roach speedling all in done quite a lot in ZvZ and PvZ in the timings would also help !

Thank you very much for all the hard work !

I know the PvZ timing, but not the ZvZ...oh wait, do you mean This?. Also yea, with the usage to infestors going wayy up recently I would imagine that this timing has changed a bit. I still need to weed through MLG Columbus and add those timings in, or scrap the old ones if they're very different. Thanks for keeping me up to date.

On August 03 2011 22:29 ticktack wrote:
Adding gas first timings will be really good too( for terran ). Since they have been getting more popular lately

If you mean for the recent blu flame hellion play, it's already gas first. The factroy goes down about 3:12 If you delay your first marine it could be about ~-6-8s faster.


Ah ok. Gas First banshees comes out 20 seconds earlier. Might want to add that?

If you skip cloak and go banshee first, then yes it's about 20s earlier. I'll probably just and a note in there.
Administrator
LagT_T
Profile Joined March 2010
Argentina535 Posts
August 03 2011 18:20 GMT
#156
This is great! Thanks wo1fwood!
"The tactics... no. Amateurs discuss tactics, professional soldiers study logistics." - Tom Clancy, Red Storm Rising
Hrwa
Profile Joined August 2010
Croatia147 Posts
August 04 2011 15:38 GMT
#157
Very nice resource, thanks for doing this.
"That trophy is worth a million times more than the money" - NaNiwa after winning MLG Dallas
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
August 07 2011 12:16 GMT
#158
I just updated the thread with the 2 base ghost push TvP, and two roach speedling openings.
Administrator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
August 07 2011 20:59 GMT
#159
Average zerg timings have been updated for the current metagame.
Administrator
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
August 07 2011 21:20 GMT
#160
The MC 3 gate PvP timing is wrong. You get 1 zealot 4 stalkers 2 sentry at 6:10 for his standard build.
Moderator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
August 07 2011 21:42 GMT
#161
On August 08 2011 06:20 4kmonk wrote:
The MC 3 gate PvP timing is wrong. You get 1 zealot 4 stalkers 2 sentry at 6:10 for his standard build.
Yes you are correct in that you will have 1z 4st 2snt at 6:10, however MC has 1z 4st 1snt before that point. I thought that was somewhat important due to the fact that it's 16s earlier, though thanks for pointing that out, I'll tag on the other sentry, like I was supposed to.
Administrator
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
August 08 2011 18:31 GMT
#162
On August 08 2011 06:42 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2011 06:20 4kmonk wrote:
The MC 3 gate PvP timing is wrong. You get 1 zealot 4 stalkers 2 sentry at 6:10 for his standard build.
Yes you are correct in that you will have 1z 4st 2snt at 6:10, however MC has 1z 4st 1snt before that point. I thought that was somewhat important due to the fact that it's 16s earlier, though thanks for pointing that out, I'll tag on the other sentry, like I was supposed to.


The replay that you watched is actually a different version of MC's standard 3 gate build. If you watch all the other replays I have in my thread, you'll see that MC more consistently does a slightly different version which has 1 zealot 2 stalker 2 sentry at 5:45 and warps in 2 more stalkers at 6:10.
Moderator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
August 09 2011 14:17 GMT
#163
On August 09 2011 03:31 4kmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2011 06:42 wo1fwood wrote:
On August 08 2011 06:20 4kmonk wrote:
The MC 3 gate PvP timing is wrong. You get 1 zealot 4 stalkers 2 sentry at 6:10 for his standard build.
Yes you are correct in that you will have 1z 4st 2snt at 6:10, however MC has 1z 4st 1snt before that point. I thought that was somewhat important due to the fact that it's 16s earlier, though thanks for pointing that out, I'll tag on the other sentry, like I was supposed to.


The replay that you watched is actually a different version of MC's standard 3 gate build. If you watch all the other replays I have in my thread, you'll see that MC more consistently does a slightly different version which has 1 zealot 2 stalker 2 sentry at 5:45 and warps in 2 more stalkers at 6:10.

Thanks for the help. As per our conversation, I updated the ordering and will add your variant alongside the more economic one (see thread).

--

The 2 Sentry Gate expand vs Z has also been added.
Administrator
Crosswind
Profile Joined May 2010
United States279 Posts
August 09 2011 14:19 GMT
#164
Hey, OP, this is freaking spectacular. Love it.

-Cross
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-10 01:44:21
August 09 2011 18:40 GMT
#165
OK, so to add to the plethora of updates recently, I just finished adding the DT expand builds for PvT and PvZ.

Edit: And added the 2 Gate Stargate PvT.
Administrator
Aftershock912
Profile Joined August 2011
United States15 Posts
August 18 2011 19:40 GMT
#166
Sweet, this is some cool info
Dont Be Perfect, Be Clutch
thunderwang0
Profile Joined August 2010
3 Posts
August 19 2011 09:30 GMT
#167
This is seriously one of the best threads on this forum board. Nice job.
BlindSC2
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom435 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 13:06:24
August 19 2011 13:04 GMT
#168
Great thread.

Was wondering if you'd be interested in either making a second thread, or extending this thread to include 'gamestate-less' timings (made-up phrase, don't know if this type of timing has a proper name already). That'd be awesome

Timings that work no matter the state of the game, ones like in your 'general' timings for each race

E.G The one you stated where it takes ~3:15 from gas being placed to ling speed. It doesn't matter if the zerg went 14/14, hatch first or whatever, that timing applies whatever the scenario.

Or the timing that from the robo being placed, it takes ~3:00 for the first colossus to pop

One I use often, if you start a robo bay and forge at the same time, +1 and thermal lance will finish at the same time

I find timings like these extremely useful for mid/late game or 'crazy' situations where something like a 6pool happened, so all your specific build order timings are thrown off. These can be used to setup a timing attack regardless of the situation



Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools; because they have to say something - Plato
Adventurekid
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Sweden505 Posts
August 30 2011 10:29 GMT
#169
I would like to thank you so much for this thread. It really helps me improve!
You should build a turtle fence!
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
August 30 2011 10:35 GMT
#170
put this in liquipedia....NOW!
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
EPIqFuFuFluX
Profile Joined August 2011
United States15 Posts
August 30 2011 17:28 GMT
#171
Very nice work indeed. Thank you for sharing this information.
Strength in Unity
pebblebeach
Profile Joined June 2011
35 Posts
August 30 2011 17:38 GMT
#172
Thank you, I was looking for a guide like this.
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
August 30 2011 17:38 GMT
#173
Yeah, I would like if we added more relative timings such as 3:15 from Extractor down to Metabolic Boost finish.

Other Zerg ones:

From time Infestor Pit goes down, Infestors with energy for Fungal is 160 seconds or 2:40. Start of spire to Mutalisks is 113 or 1:53 ~2 min. From time Hive starts, fastest possible Brood Lord is 284 seconds or 4:34, so realistically 4:45ish. For Protoss buddies, from the time Lair starts, the fastest Roach Burrow with Speed push is 190s or 3:10.

I think relative timings are wayyyyy more useful 9/10 against Zerg and for everyone after 9 minutes.
One Love
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
September 02 2011 01:28 GMT
#174
On August 31 2011 02:38 Sleight wrote:
Yeah, I would like if we added more relative timings such as 3:15 from Extractor down to Metabolic Boost finish.

Other Zerg ones:

From time Infestor Pit goes down, Infestors with energy for Fungal is 160 seconds or 2:40. Start of spire to Mutalisks is 113 or 1:53 ~2 min. From time Hive starts, fastest possible Brood Lord is 284 seconds or 4:34, so realistically 4:45ish. For Protoss buddies, from the time Lair starts, the fastest Roach Burrow with Speed push is 190s or 3:10.

I think relative timings are wayyyyy more useful 9/10 against Zerg and for everyone after 9 minutes.

tyty. Please let me know of others that I may have missed. I have updated each of the general sections to add these timings such as the ones mentioned above.
Administrator
danakaz
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark84 Posts
September 02 2011 10:57 GMT
#175
This is awesome work. Thank you very much.
Arklite
Profile Joined September 2010
12 Posts
September 02 2011 12:41 GMT
#176
So helpful thank you just what I needed!
CBNMystery
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada25 Posts
September 02 2011 16:48 GMT
#177
This is pretty awesome :D
CB NERDS
wingweaver415
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States66 Posts
September 02 2011 20:25 GMT
#178
awesome post! this will really help my game out....
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
September 20 2011 18:12 GMT
#179
I just finished updating the Terran section with the patch 1.4 updates, hooray!
Administrator
Mr.SoloDolo
Profile Joined June 2011
American Samoa90 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-13 19:49:09
October 13 2011 19:48 GMT
#180
Thanks for your work wo1fwood
Incontrol+Idra+Tyler Fighting
buncool
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
France70 Posts
October 22 2011 13:54 GMT
#181
Very good thread, thank you
When you're ahead, get more ahead !!
FalconToss
Profile Joined December 2010
United States13 Posts
October 22 2011 14:57 GMT
#182
Very nice. Thank you very much!
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln
whereismymind
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom717 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-03 15:47:21
November 03 2011 15:38 GMT
#183
I find this topic very helpful, but I am little confuse with some things I mean with some of your sentences..

"It takes ~3:33 from starting a Lair to having mutas on the field (~3:40 for corruptors)."

Does this means when you start making Lair or when it finishes - than it takes 3:33 to have mutas out? I mean Starting making or after Lair starts enabling other techs..

Confused here too:

"transition to lair
• lair @6:45
"
You mean it finishes at 6:45 or you start lair at 6:45? Ok I assume it's finishes lair at 6:45.. So that would mean if you add: "It takes ~3:33 from starting a Lair to having mutas on the field (~3:40 for corruptors).".. Than this means you will have mutas on filed at:

10:25 minutes? Am I correct. That makes sense.
one day.. i'll lose my mind
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-03 23:14:54
November 03 2011 23:14 GMT
#184
On November 04 2011 00:38 whereismymind wrote:
I find this topic very helpful, but I am little confuse with some things I mean with some of your sentences..

"It takes ~3:33 from starting a Lair to having mutas on the field (~3:40 for corruptors)."

Does this means when you start making Lair or when it finishes - than it takes 3:33 to have mutas out? I mean Starting making or after Lair starts enabling other techs..

Confused here too:

"transition to lair
• lair @6:45
"
You mean it finishes at 6:45 or you start lair at 6:45? Ok I assume it's finishes lair at 6:45.. So that would mean if you add: "It takes ~3:33 from starting a Lair to having mutas on the field (~3:40 for corruptors).".. Than this means you will have mutas on filed at:

10:25 minutes? Am I correct. That makes sense.

I thought the first part is pretty self evident... Yes that is the amount of time from when you hit the L key to begin your lair, to the time you can have a single muta or corruptor pop.

As for the second part, that time is when the lair completes, or any of the tech/upgrades. Maybe it's the 'transition to' part that's tripping you up. Also remember with regards to those 'fastest' timings, the note I put in red is super important to heed. For example, have you ever seen a greater spire at the 11:00 mark in a tournament game? Yea, neither have I, that's why the averages section is more important.
Administrator
imEnex
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada500 Posts
November 04 2011 01:32 GMT
#185
This is awesome, thanks for the hard work wo1fwood!
Program yourself to Success
Conquerer67
Profile Joined May 2011
United States605 Posts
November 10 2011 05:51 GMT
#186
Going to bump this because of some recent discussion about build timings.

Also, it's a very helpful PDF for my build refinements.
I hate when people compare SC2 and rochambeu. One race isn't fucking supposed to counter another one. | Protoss isn't OP. Their units on the other hand....
Venomsflame
Profile Joined February 2011
United States613 Posts
November 14 2011 08:27 GMT
#187
Bleh. Apparently a ZvZ build I was working on won't work vs a quicker baneling bust than I am used to =/
JawHun
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States151 Posts
November 16 2011 20:19 GMT
#188
I just wanted to shout out how great of a resource this thread is, and say thank you for making it and maintaining it!
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
November 16 2011 20:28 GMT
#189
Don't know how I have not seen this thread before today.

Great post which deserves a bit more attention.
Doof
Profile Joined October 2010
United States204 Posts
November 17 2011 00:47 GMT
#190
I've looked for a post like this before, but couldn't find one. Thanks for the bump! Thanks for the OP
Every day should be a good day to die
Feos
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany71 Posts
December 24 2011 06:29 GMT
#191
did anyone some testing on protoss ffe timings? and nexus first timings against Z and T?
the zealot/stalker/stargate/warp prism timings would be interesting and how they vary with worker count. i mean if i build 12 forge or 15 forge and so on.
i might be testing it after christmas. just wondered if anyone already did it since ffe and nexus first become more and more popular.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
January 05 2012 02:17 GMT
#192
On December 24 2011 15:29 Feos wrote:
did anyone some testing on protoss ffe timings? and nexus first timings against Z and T?
the zealot/stalker/stargate/warp prism timings would be interesting and how they vary with worker count. i mean if i build 12 forge or 15 forge and so on.
i might be testing it after christmas. just wondered if anyone already did it since ffe and nexus first become more and more popular.

I just updated the FFE and Nexus first timings, so that should take care of it.
Administrator
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
January 07 2012 12:57 GMT
#193
Thanks so much for this thread man and also for the update, love ya <3
Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
NanashiStarCraft
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany48 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 01:27:09
January 09 2012 01:18 GMT
#194
Actually i was looking for Average Timings and somehow landed here. Now i've collected a lot of Data from this and another thread and made three PDF files, one for each race of course, in which i've re-arranged the Timings and Stuff and made some comments and guesses, with the goal to have a beginner friendly PRINTABLE! Version of the Timings. Maybe there are some Mistakes and most likely some Timings will be too much, but i'm sure everywhere is space to improve and i'd never finish looking for it so here it is:

Let me share these Files with you, you can do whatever you like, but if i may have one suggest, pls share it if you think your improvements have been worth it. Thx for reading, i hope you share improve and enjoy it!

[url blocked]

I've addee the original Files which i've edited in LibreOffice so they are in odt Format, feel free to Edit and Share!

Download - LibreOffice
__________________________________________________
@Edit: missed some Formattings, just fixed that --> V2
cskalias.pbe
Profile Joined April 2010
United States293 Posts
January 11 2012 23:53 GMT
#195
Incredible thread. Gonna bookmark this.
A map guide with walking distances between entrances/chokes/ramps to main/nat would complement this well.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
January 14 2012 14:48 GMT
#196
Someone already made a thread on this, but I do think it's a good idea so I put it in the references section.

http://a176.imgur.com/
Administrator
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
January 14 2012 16:23 GMT
#197
I'm unsure about that Infestation Pit timing. Is it timed considering a zerg who goes muta then infestor just for hive, or for a user who uses ling/infestor as their composition?
Rhastafara
Profile Joined January 2012
Sweden2 Posts
January 14 2012 16:37 GMT
#198
This'll be very helpful for me when i go random as i suck with terran :3 thx
Rhastafara
Profile Joined January 2012
Sweden2 Posts
January 14 2012 16:37 GMT
#199
This'll be very helpful for me when i go random as i suck with terran :3
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
January 22 2012 23:53 GMT
#200
I just added nAni's 2 gate Blink/Obs PvP build to the list.

On January 15 2012 01:23 Tobberoth wrote:
I'm unsure about that Infestation Pit timing. Is it timed considering a zerg who goes muta then infestor just for hive, or for a user who uses ling/infestor as their composition?

It's been a while, but I seem to remember that they didn't actually differ by very much back then. I'm going to say that this has likely changed though as the last update was a while ago.
Administrator
kc
Profile Joined August 2006
Canada212 Posts
January 27 2012 13:17 GMT
#201
are these all up to date timings? with the new patch?
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
February 02 2012 13:51 GMT
#202
On January 27 2012 22:17 kc wrote:
are these all up to date timings? with the new patch?
Aside from the Zerg averages which have likely changed due to metagame shifts, yes (i need to collect more data before I change those). I also just added the PvZ 7gate immortal/warp prism timing.
Administrator
JayIsImbA
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany54 Posts
February 02 2012 21:30 GMT
#203
up to date or not, thanks for the nice work! good thread!
"More gg, more skill!" WhiteRa
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
February 07 2012 16:45 GMT
#204
I just updated it with the PvT sentry/immortal push that Puzzle has been doing for a little while now.
Administrator
Jrac
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2 Posts
February 07 2012 18:07 GMT
#205
wow, nice work, I need to memorize some of these..... (-_-)
INFINITY FIGHTING
Spaceboy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom220 Posts
February 12 2012 17:22 GMT
#206
Wow this is amazing, I've been looking for something similar for ages (as I assumed it must exist somewhere), thanks very much for the hard work :D
I am terrible at this game!
Nimbl3
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia49 Posts
February 16 2012 01:52 GMT
#207
Sitting down at work and just saw this post.. all i can really say is... Awesome.. my problem is losing to a lot of timings and i just cannot understand when they are about to come... this will deffinetly give me some idea of my game play and will learn to adjust well from now on..

Thank you +1 from me :D
Dream as if you will live for ever, Live as if you would die today
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
March 18 2012 16:14 GMT
#208
OK, finally got around to updating the Zerg Averages so they should be at least more accurate than they were previously. I currently don't have nearly enough data to say they are really %100 accurate, but I will continually add to this when I can.

I've also updated the T section with MMA's banshee pvt and the more recent hellion marauder push vs. Z. The PDF should be up to date soon as well.
Administrator
SOURD1ESEL
Profile Joined December 2011
United States57 Posts
March 22 2012 05:10 GMT
#209
Thank you this is very helpful for many reasons. It is a comprehensive lists of solid builds that I can do and it provides me with scouting information. Thanks!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 22 2012 00:22 GMT
#210
Just added the 2 base 3 colossus push Squirtle was doing at IPL. Have MLG reps to, will be working on adding in averages soon.
Administrator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 29 2012 11:49 GMT
#211
I just wanted to make a quick note that in preparation for the incoming HotS beta, this thread has been renamed from "Basic" to "WoL". Once HotS is released, this thread will no longer be updated.
Administrator
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
April 29 2012 12:00 GMT
#212
Nice
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
Silentness
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2821 Posts
April 29 2012 12:01 GMT
#213
I like that two base 3 colossi build from Squirtle I will definitely try it out.
GL HF... YOLO..lololollol.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
May 07 2012 00:47 GMT
#214
I finally got time this weekend to go through some replay packs, including IPL4 and MLG Columbus. They have been added into the Zerg Averages section.
Administrator
MidnightZL
Profile Joined August 2012
Sweden203 Posts
October 27 2012 12:23 GMT
#215
One thing im wondering about is the following lines:

• It Takes ~2:35 From Starting A Twilight Council To Having Dark Templar In Play.

Since Twilight Council doesnt make any DTs i assume they mean it takes ~2:35 to make both Twilight Council and a Templar Archives and a DT? or what do you mean?


And then this line:
• If You Begin A Twilight Council When +1 Is ~%66 (110/160) Complete, You Will Be Able To Begin +2 When Twilight Council Finishes.

When +1 what? i assume you mean +1 Ground Weapon, it's very uncertain what you mean for the new players that havent been around for long.


- I'm fairly certain YOLO is just Carpe Diem for stupid people - Jack Black
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
October 27 2012 12:52 GMT
#216
On October 27 2012 21:23 MidnightZL wrote:
One thing im wondering about is the following lines:

• It Takes ~2:35 From Starting A Twilight Council To Having Dark Templar In Play.

Since Twilight Council doesnt make any DTs i assume they mean it takes ~2:35 to make both Twilight Council and a Templar Archives and a DT? or what do you mean?


And then this line:
• If You Begin A Twilight Council When +1 Is ~%66 (110/160) Complete, You Will Be Able To Begin +2 When Twilight Council Finishes.

When +1 what? i assume you mean +1 Ground Weapon, it's very uncertain what you mean for the new players that havent been around for long.





All +1 forge upgrades take the same amount of time.

2:35 until you can build your first DT from the combined build times of Twilight Council and Dark Shrine.

If you're not familiar with the used terms you'd better start off here:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Units
I think esports is pretty nice.
IIIOmegaIII
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden319 Posts
October 27 2012 14:48 GMT
#217
2.1 Protoss General
• A 10 gate completes @2:30.
• A 13 gate completes @2:48.

u sure about that...?
TimeFlighT
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia257 Posts
October 27 2012 15:29 GMT
#218
Hi OP, could you kindly update this thread for new timings if possible? Thank you for your hard work.
Mahtasooma
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany475 Posts
October 29 2012 10:24 GMT
#219
• From the time a Hive begins to having brood lords in play is ~3:54 (assumes you have made corruptors before greater spire completes and have a spire before hive completes).
• It takes ~3:40 from starting a Hive to having ultralisks in play.


This is interesting... I always thought Broods would take a far longer time to have out than Ultras.
Most casters point this out a lot, at least.
http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma
Nyast
Profile Joined November 2010
Belgium554 Posts
October 29 2012 11:26 GMT
#220
The time between putting down a twilight council to having Templar with storm is ~2:40 (1:50 w/ constant chrono(5))


That one sounds wrong. Twilight council is 50s, templar archives is 50s, then storm is 110s but can be cut to 60s with 5 chronos. So that's actually 2:40 w/ constant chronos (5), and 3:30 without chronos.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
October 29 2012 12:05 GMT
#221
On October 27 2012 23:48 IIIOmegaIII wrote:
2.1 Protoss General
• A 10 gate completes @2:30.
• A 13 gate completes @2:48.

u sure about that...?


Yep that's correct.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
October 29 2012 12:19 GMT
#222
lol, I have half of that right. Templar+storm is 2:40 with chrono, 3:30 without. Will fix.

Also with the more recent timings, I haven't really had time of my own as I'm working on a lot of different projects atm. I'll try to get to them when I can, but suggestions could be helpful (3 hatch no gas for zerg, T 3cc hellion banshee, fast 3 nex) Or if anyone who wants to do some investigative work for the timings is welcome to as long as you know they are optimal/provide reps showing them.
Administrator
fris
Profile Joined June 2010
Russian Federation1 Post
May 04 2013 04:42 GMT
#223
Is there something like this adapted for hots?
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 4
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O199
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
SKillous vs LamboLIVE!
Clem vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM2884
ComeBackTV 2102
IndyStarCraft 633
WardiTV454
CranKy Ducklings170
3DClanTV 166
Rex119
EnkiAlexander 102
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2884
IndyStarCraft 633
Rex 119
Vindicta 51
MindelVK 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Shine 334
firebathero 271
ZZZero.O 199
BeSt 163
Soulkey 134
Dewaltoss 98
Hyun 68
yabsab 31
Free 27
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
qojqva4823
capcasts7
Counter-Strike
fl0m3662
flusha235
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1263
Mew2King578
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor768
Liquid`Hasu482
Other Games
Grubby1026
B2W.Neo860
Hui .196
KnowMe152
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2263
StarCraft 2
angryscii 13
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 50
• iHatsuTV 11
• Legendk 10
• davetesta5
• LUISG 4
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• intothetv
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki6
• HerbMon 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Nemesis2376
• WagamamaTV777
Other Games
• imaqtpie1166
• Shiphtur266
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
16h 15m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 15h
WardiTV European League
1d 21h
Online Event
1d 22h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.