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Preemptive strike here: I know some people dislike cheesy strategies, I recognize this strategy requires little or no skill. I'm trying to share a -very- effective strategy that can steal a win from a vastly better opponent. Take it for what it's worth, use it or don't use it. I think all-in attacks have a place in everyone's back pocket, even if only to understand the timings so you can better recognize and defend against them.
I was fiddling around with the old Lightning Ragnarok Shining Majesty (LRSM) build a few days ago and realized something. The few games I -was- losing vs T and P seemed to be literally lost by seconds. A cannon came up 5 seconds too soon, a marauder popped a couple seconds seconds too early, a bunker got built just a HAIR too soon. Things only seemed to get worse as I got more fancy, trying to deny scouting and delaying roach warrens until scout workers were dead. I was still winning with remarkable frequency, but the beatings were coming more frequently as I climbed into facing 3000 point diamonds. People were scouting and properly countering despite my attempts to prevent it. I was literally losing games by the skin of my teeth.
I realized, if I really wanted to maximize my ability to win with 3RR cheese, I needed to hit faster.
To that end, a new build order:
Send OL to enemy ramp (keep him off the ramp, but in visual range)
3 drones
9/10 spawning pool
2 drones
10/10 extractor as -soon- as it can be built (at 25 minerals, right after building the 10/10 drone)
9/10 Roach warren as -soon- as possible
2 drones on gas as soon as it pops (yes, only 2)
8/10 Overlord
3 roaches started ASAP
With a proper quick start/drone split, your 3 roaches will be hatched and heading to the enemy base somewhere between 3:30 and 3:35, and that's at least 10 seconds (or more) earlier than my original 3RR. You'll hit earlier and you'll hit HARD, with 5 roaches hatched by somewhere around 4:05, and 3 of them hitting STUPID early. Also, since I haven't actually had to build more than 5 roaches to win with this build, it's possible that you could send all your drones as soon as you start the 5th roach, to assist at the front (the replays below I don't do this, I'll post some updated ones with the drones assisting soon).
Once at the enemy base, focus on getting them supply blocked ASAP - knock down pylons or supply depots. Don't let them surround your roaches with workers (back down the ramp if necessary stutter-stepping). Once they are supply blocked your fourth and fifth roaches will arrive (and perhaps all your drones if you're so inclined) and the game is yours - watch my replays to get a feel for what I prioritize. I haven't lost using this variation vs P and T, perhaps because it's obscure enough that people don't understand the FAST timings and just how much danger they are in.
Here's a few replays:
VS 2931 Diamond Protoss (he tries to get the panic cannons up - oops, roaches are too early!)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/142305-1v1-protoss-zerg-lost-temple
VS Diamond Terran (an easy victory)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/142124-1v1-terran-zerg-steppes-of-war
VS 3000 point Diamond Protoss (botched my build, arrived over ten seconds late, still cream him despite his panic cannons)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/142138-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
Toss's last words? "Those were some early roaches..."
It's balls-out, you're going straight 3RR with no scout denial, no fall-back plan. It works.
Have you tried it? Any thoughts for improvement? I know these strategies tend to generate alot of armchair quarterbacking, but seriously, try this build. Practice it once or twice to get the timing down (roaches need to hatch @ 3:35 or earlier or your timing is off). Try it in a game or two - it'll only take a few minutes because it's such a quick win. I think you'll be surprised.
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This sounds cool but I am still waiting for someone to find Zerg version of 2marauder+1 marine pressure expand build.
I hate playing defensive zerg as was given to us in SC2.
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Now I have to learn more proper responses. 
Op, anything in mind besides fast cannon?
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On February 22 2011 01:45 iChau wrote:Now I have to learn more proper responses. Op, anything in mind besides fast cannon?
That's literally it. You need a super fast forge and cannon.
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I dunno how it goes for Protoss but any decent T will start massing bunkers when they see such an early pool. You might get lucky once in a while on 4player maps when your base gets scouted last but as you said that strat is designed for inferior players to win sometimes.
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If this strategy is so dependent on timings that are just a few seconds faster, does having a bigger map weaken the strategy?
Im in class so I can't watch your replays, but in Xel Naga, if you your opponent had reacted faster, would he have stopped you? Or is it countered by the fact that the scout is delayed as well?
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I was a tad suspicious that this known strategy was first posted by you on TL. So I did some sleuthing, otherwise known as using the search function: 2 things came up, a 3 roach speedling all-in, and 3 roach rush, and looking over it's OP it is the exact same as yours (in terms of BO and concept). So I suggest taking these replays to that strat thread.
Here's a link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165468
+ Show Spoiler +next time use the search function before you get too eager about creating a thread
edit: wtf you wrote the same thread twice, do you have amnesia?
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If that terran scouted at all, you would have lost.
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On February 22 2011 01:52 elkram wrote:I was a tad suspicious that this known strategy was first posted by you on TL. So I did some sleuthing, otherwise known as using the search function: 2 things came up, a 3 roach speedling all-in, and 3 roach rush, and looking over it's OP it is the exact same as yours (in terms of BO and concept). So I suggest taking these replays to that strat thread. Here's a link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165468+ Show Spoiler +next time use the search function before you get too eager about creating a thread edit: wtf you wrote the same thread twice, do you have amnesia?
In the second paragraph he says it's an improved version...
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On February 22 2011 01:52 lyAsakura wrote:
If that terran scouted at all, you would have lost.
And if he built a bunker 2 minutes in and pumped out 4marines and put all of his SCV's on auto repair he would have won too. What's your point?
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OUCH. As a Toss this build would make me cry. I just wish for the zerg's sake it wasn't such an all-in. It's basically like a 6 pool, just a bit more durable.
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On February 22 2011 01:48 Mercury- wrote:
I dunno how it goes for Protoss but any decent T will start massing bunkers when they see such an early pool. You might get lucky once in a while on 4player maps when your base gets scouted last but as you said that strat is designed for inferior players to win sometimes.
If you watch the replays, the terran tries to get a bunker up but it never completes because the roaches show up so early. The toss's try to drop a forge+cannons but are unable to get them up in time for the same reasons. 3 roaches trash a building cannon pretty damn quick - and the followup 2 roaches (and possibly drones) help finish the enemy off. Getting them into supply block -is- important though, you want to try to cut unit production ASAP.
I believe a toss -could- drop an immediate forge and get cannons up in time if he scouted quickly and IMMEDIATELY realized the trouble he was in. Most players don't realize just how quickly these roaches can arrive though, so they play expecting roaches 20-45 seconds later. As I said in my initial post, I think the success is largely because the timings on this attack are so much faster than anything people are used to seeing from roaches.
As for bigger maps, I don't really think this is a good build for maps like scrap station for obvious reasons. Semi-long rush distances it seems to work fine (the response is delayed due to the scout probe delay), although you might run into the problem my old 3RR was (losing by the skin of your teeth). Bear in mind, my old 3RR was still winning at around 75% efficiency vs P and T in the reasonably high diamonds and it was hitting somewhere between 10-15 seconds later than this (or more). So, it'll still win a lot of games.
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On February 22 2011 01:52 elkram wrote:I was a tad suspicious that this known strategy was first posted by you on TL. So I did some sleuthing, otherwise known as using the search function: 2 things came up, a 3 roach speedling all-in, and 3 roach rush, and looking over it's OP it is the exact same as yours (in terms of BO and concept). So I suggest taking these replays to that strat thread. Here's a link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165468+ Show Spoiler +next time use the search function before you get too eager about creating a thread edit: wtf you wrote the same thread twice, do you have amnesia?
Yeah, that was -my- original thread ;p. The threads look similar because the concept is similar (3 roaches early), but this build is -considerably- faster.
That older post is my fancier 3RR that tried to deny scout and do fake expos etc. This build is hitting 10-20 seconds faster and winning games that I was -losing- with my original 3RR (even at -best- the old build was at least 7+ seconds later). I think it warrants a new thread as it entails completely different timings and is IMHO more effective.
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I think a lot of free wins could be had off this build merely from BO copying players who see a roach warren building and just don't realize how early it is. "Like....ok, 11 pool.....ok, going 1 base roach...guess I need to go robo.....HOLY CRAP THERE'S THREE ROACHES AT MY FRONT DOOR!!!!"
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It is not like he is giving us a build that will let you win all tournaments.
It is an all in that works as well as terran marine+scv all in if it is not scouted in time and not reacted in time.
Lets just enjoy some easy wins that will let us not be as frustrated when playing Zerg.
After losing to some stupid early all in from terran or toss this rush is a perfect way to let off some steam, better then 6-7 pooling.
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This looks awesome to try! Def gonna do this once or twice when I offrace
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On February 22 2011 02:12 -Archangel- wrote:
It is not like he is giving us a build that will let you win all tournaments.
It is an all in that works as well as terran marine+scv all in if it is not scouted in time and not reacted in time.
Lets just enjoy some easy wins that will let us not be as frustrated when playing Zerg.
After losing to some stupid early all in from terran or toss this rush is a perfect way to let off some steam, better then 6-7 pooling.
Except for the fact that if this fails......its an auto-win for P/T. T can marines scv "all-in" as part of normal gameplay and still be completely fine.
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On February 22 2011 02:16 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 02:12 -Archangel- wrote:
It is not like he is giving us a build that will let you win all tournaments.
It is an all in that works as well as terran marine+scv all in if it is not scouted in time and not reacted in time.
Lets just enjoy some easy wins that will let us not be as frustrated when playing Zerg.
After losing to some stupid early all in from terran or toss this rush is a perfect way to let off some steam, better then 6-7 pooling. Except for the fact that if this fails......its an auto-win for P/T. T can marines scv "all-in" as part of normal gameplay and still be completely fine.
No, you're thinking of 2 Rax aggression.
Marine scv all-in is when you bring ALL YOUR SCVS. If held off, its an autowin for the other player just the same.
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Canada13407 Posts
now theres something else for me to worry about :/ Thanks for a faster Roach Rush build :D lol
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Tried it in a couple customs, its a pretty good all-in, the only problem had was the first game i messed up the build and arrived a little late and ran into stalkers being chronoed out. Basically you do it perfect or you lose :>
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EPT
