EPT[G] Standard Play Part 2: PvT Colossus Pushing - Page 4
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RevRich
United States218 Posts
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13408 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
I play this way almost all the time with only a few small deviations. I always open with a zealot in the build to be a bit more resistant against various pushes, it also really helps for me to put up a little early pressure so i can punish the extremely greedy builds. My most favorite opening is actually 2 zealots before stalker and not scouting with a probe at all. Between the zealot, stalker poke and observer there is nothing I can miss that can be worrysome anyway and not scouting saves about 100 minerals (estimate). Depending on spawn positions I can also deviate a little from this build by actually going a kcdc style expand if it's far spawns. 2 gate robo can be a little behind against a good 1 rax FE imo as you can't pressure them and might have trouble stopping their 4+ rax push before you get colo out. Finally I must say I love the insight about getting blink before charge. I used to get charge first all the time but blink being cheaper and countering harass + vikings so nicely really makes it better. Zealots don't need to move in fast anyway they just need to soak hits and do some damage, stalker positioning is far more important indeed. I think the only thing this guide needs to be complete is a little extra information on how to deal with some other common things terran do. For example how do you deviate when you're up against mech? (carriers?) And how do you respond to some of the more popular 1 base pushes from terran, raven/banshee pushes and blueflame hellion drops/pushes in particular. | ||
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Xiphiasar
United States78 Posts
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winedz
United States92 Posts
It is scoutable by obs, you will see lots of MM near his base with your 1st obs, and he already expanded (2 rax FE). if you cancel your expo and build up unit, I think you will be far behind. However if you insist on expanding, you will not be able to hold that timing window.. edit: nevermind, just rewatch your replay and you handle it well | ||
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legek
Slovenia153 Posts
On March 15 2011 06:45 Xiphiasar wrote: This and the PvZ post are great! They're helping me move from plat to diamond. Please post a PvP guide soon. PvP is kinda hard to play ''standard'' because well executed 4gate can wreck lots of builds. | ||
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zyglrox
United States1168 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On March 13 2011 08:07 Markwerf wrote: Excellent guide and series. I play this way almost all the time with only a few small deviations. I always open with a zealot in the build to be a bit more resistant against various pushes, it also really helps for me to put up a little early pressure so i can punish the extremely greedy builds. My most favorite opening is actually 2 zealots before stalker and not scouting with a probe at all. Between the zealot, stalker poke and observer there is nothing I can miss that can be worrysome anyway and not scouting saves about 100 minerals (estimate). Depending on spawn positions I can also deviate a little from this build by actually going a kcdc style expand if it's far spawns. 2 gate robo can be a little behind against a good 1 rax FE imo as you can't pressure them and might have trouble stopping their 4+ rax push before you get colo out. Finally I must say I love the insight about getting blink before charge. I used to get charge first all the time but blink being cheaper and countering harass + vikings so nicely really makes it better. Zealots don't need to move in fast anyway they just need to soak hits and do some damage, stalker positioning is far more important indeed. I think the only thing this guide needs to be complete is a little extra information on how to deal with some other common things terran do. For example how do you deviate when you're up against mech? (carriers?) And how do you respond to some of the more popular 1 base pushes from terran, raven/banshee pushes and blueflame hellion drops/pushes in particular. In my experience robo builds are not behind at all vs 1 rax FE. Tyler even does 3 gate robo and looks to be even with his opponent (see Tyler vs Jinro game 1). Open the spoiler tags, I linked to some threads about stopping 1 base attacks and referenced a game Naniwa vs Goody that shows how to play against mech. I can't give you a standard response against mech since it's too rare for me to practice against, but the few times I ran into it I saw that pretty much any unit combination is decent as long as you cut down on the sentry count. | ||
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
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poor_little_pinkus
United States17 Posts
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
I did just lose to a 2 rax marine rush, but, it was sort of my fault. I did scout it, I just didn't really react properly at all. Stuck to this build too closely when I should have reacted to what I scouted. BUT, I feel like I know how to open and proceed against terran now, I feel like I have all the tools, I have the opening to get me the intel I need and then I can just react from there. | ||
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Fiendish
United States210 Posts
should be spotlighted | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
One question I had after watching an oGSMC game (forgot which one exactly) was given that more n more Terrans are expecting Colossus and almost overproducing on the Vikings, is it easier to transition to High Templar?? If so, how would I transition (like the best time to start building twighlit etcc)....HT seem much more effective against MMM and also harder to counter too. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On April 18 2011 10:56 bankai wrote: Been practicing this build and using it as a good guide against Terran MMM pushes. One question I had after watching an oGSMC game (forgot which one exactly) was given that more n more Terrans are expecting Colossus and almost overproducing on the Vikings, is it easier to transition to High Templar?? If so, how would I transition (like the best time to start building twighlit etcc)....HT seem much more effective against MMM and also harder to counter too. IMO players are better off learning how to micro blink stalkers against MMM/viking. If you win the ground battle, you pretty much get all of their vikings for free. You should never get high templars before you have 6 assimilators going, especially now that there is no Khaydarin Amulet upgrade. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On March 13 2011 08:07 Markwerf wrote: Excellent guide and series. I play this way almost all the time with only a few small deviations. I always open with a zealot in the build to be a bit more resistant against various pushes, it also really helps for me to put up a little early pressure so i can punish the extremely greedy builds. My most favorite opening is actually 2 zealots before stalker and not scouting with a probe at all. Between the zealot, stalker poke and observer there is nothing I can miss that can be worrysome anyway and not scouting saves about 100 minerals (estimate). Depending on spawn positions I can also deviate a little from this build by actually going a kcdc style expand if it's far spawns. 2 gate robo can be a little behind against a good 1 rax FE imo as you can't pressure them and might have trouble stopping their 4+ rax push before you get colo out. Finally I must say I love the insight about getting blink before charge. I used to get charge first all the time but blink being cheaper and countering harass + vikings so nicely really makes it better. Zealots don't need to move in fast anyway they just need to soak hits and do some damage, stalker positioning is far more important indeed. I think the only thing this guide needs to be complete is a little extra information on how to deal with some other common things terran do. For example how do you deviate when you're up against mech? (carriers?) And how do you respond to some of the more popular 1 base pushes from terran, raven/banshee pushes and blueflame hellion drops/pushes in particular. How do you know where terran is? Send 1 zealot to each base? | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On April 18 2011 11:03 iamke55 wrote: IMO players are better off learning how to micro blink stalkers against MMM/viking. If you win the ground battle, you pretty much get all of their vikings for free. You should never get high templars before you have 6 assimilators going, especially now that there is no Khaydarin Amulet upgrade. Cool, thanks for that! So by 'micro' i assume u mean blink under the vikings and target fire them?? Then FF half the MMM ball away, zealots at the front and Colossus at the back?? | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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bankai
362 Posts
I have continued using this build and it has been really good so far but I am struggling most of all against MM pushes (3 rax or 4rax) and banshee harass around the 8-10min mark. I know this was not part of the scope of your OP, but considering they are the most common two things I have seen from Terran openers, it would be great to know how to react to these using this build. 1) MM pushes - I dont have a problem getting my expansion down. I expand, then immediately get a 3rd gateway, then robo bay. Problem is when they push with 20marines 8maurauders (I think?)off a 3 rax expand, my colossus is only just coming out. So my question is, if I throw down my expansion, if I scout 2 rax/3rax/4 rax...how should I adjust?? Should I just get 4 or even 5 gateways first to defend and delay Colossus? 2) Banshee harass (around 7:30min) - Should I cancel expansion if I scout 1-1-1 cloaked banshees? If not, what is the most cost efficient way to defend and then transition to take advantage of the fact that Terran has invested into tech? Tips would be awesome guys!! | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On March 19 2011 02:06 winedz wrote: How do you handle 2 base 3-4 rax push at around 8:30 - 9:00 (with stim + CS). Terran can get up to 9 marauders + 15 marine, I find 2 gate robo expand is at it weakest point during this timing window. It is scoutable by obs, you will see lots of MM near his base with your 1st obs, and he already expanded (2 rax FE). if you cancel your expo and build up unit, I think you will be far behind. However if you insist on expanding, you will not be able to hold that timing window.. edit: nevermind, just rewatch your replay and you handle it well Oh btw, I did watch these replays and see you fend it off, but I have tried this and not very confident I can hold this off in a similar situation. It sorta looked like the Terran pulled his guys back a bit which contributed to the push being fended off (might be just me thinking my micro cant do the same though  ). | ||
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