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What are your keyboard/mouse Macros? - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Pharaun
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany150 Posts
December 29 2010 20:23 GMT
#181
It is 100% forbidden to do more than one action with one button. So you can bind whatever you want to whatever key (the mousewheel thing is clever!)(my mouse has a function that says autofire, so u hold down left button and it spams left click at an rate you can choose, this also will be forbidden).

The thing is, why the hell did blizzard get those friggin hardware on the marcet with a functuin in the ad that is forbidden?
It has to start somewhere. - It has to start sometime. - What better place than here. - What better time than now?!!!! -All hell can't stop us now
chessiecat
Profile Joined December 2010
82 Posts
December 29 2010 20:23 GMT
#182
Jeez, Numy, is that really helpful? If Blizzard says we're not cheating then your judgement doesn't mean a damn thing. You can call the cheesers cheating bastards but hey, there you go. It's part of the game and if Blizzard is letting people use macro's then...it's part of the game. Suck it up buttercup.
Pharaun
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany150 Posts
December 29 2010 20:25 GMT
#183
On December 30 2010 05:23 chessiecat wrote:
and if Blizzard is letting people use macro's then...it's part of the game. Suck it up buttercup.


Thats the point: they don't!
It has to start somewhere. - It has to start sometime. - What better place than here. - What better time than now?!!!! -All hell can't stop us now
AScenT
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
December 29 2010 20:27 GMT
#184
On December 30 2010 05:20 chessiecat wrote:
I don't know what they're defining as botting here. I honestly don't. I've sent another e-mail for clarification and will post that as soon as I get a response. Since the e-mail I sent was more complete in it's contents, hopefully we'll get a better reply. Considering how completely screwed up this situation is, I expect a blue to show up on the main forums to give us an answer with a fair degree of 'soon as Hell'.


There is only one definition of botting here. Performing automated game actions. The only difference between making one mouse click and having a program play the entire game for you and clicking one key to perform 2+ actions is the number of actions performed. If it is any more than 1:1 then you are botting.
chessiecat
Profile Joined December 2010
82 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-29 20:31:09
December 29 2010 20:29 GMT
#185
Is that your opinion or is that Blizzard's official stance? If it is Blizzard's official stance then I want you to point me directly to the link on their website where it says that explicitly.

So far I've gotten two dead thread links on forums other than Blizzard's, a customer service reply from Blizzard saying it's fine and another which doesn't include the original questions posed to the representative.
AScenT
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-29 20:36:05
December 29 2010 20:34 GMT
#186
On December 30 2010 05:29 chessiecat wrote:
Is that your opinion or is that Blizzard's official stance? If it is Blizzard's official stance then I want you to point me directly to the link on their website where it says that explicitly.


You keep saying that. They said it in your own post.

But the best thing to remember is that as long as you aren't changing the games programming or botting then you should be fine.


If you look up botting, its performing automated game actions. There is no other definition. At this point I see you will not change your mind until it comes directly from blizzard, so I will await the reply you post.

Edited for typos.
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
December 29 2010 20:37 GMT
#187
Clearly this is just him being completely ignorant and wanting to justify cheating as he still won't be satisfied with blizzard's responses that ALL do say the SAME thing. And that is that it's NOT allowed.
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
troynt
Profile Joined July 2010
United States22 Posts
December 29 2010 20:44 GMT
#188
The game is a real time STRATEGY game. Anything that gets in the way of strategy makes the game less about strategy and thus less fun.

Frankly, I don't buy not allowing macros. Technology has made macros/remapping keys readily available. Everyone has access to this, there is no unfair advantage gained if everyone has access to the same stuff. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to remap keys or build simple macros.

What is a simple macro? To me, it means anything that doesn't factor in time. So if I press one button it can type glhf gg .... however it can't do some action, wait a bit, do another action -- this would be similar to botting.

Botting != Remapping Keys OR simple macros

The following is a quick sample of a macro, using Autohotkey, one may want to use.

Health Bar Toggler
+ Show Spoiler +

#SingleInstance force
#MaxThreadsPerHotkey 1

showing_health_bars := false
LWin up::
if not showing_health_bars
{
Send, {\ down}
Send, {[ down}
Send, {] down}
showing_health_bars := true
}
else
{
Send, {\ up}
Send, {[ up}
Send, {] up}
showing_health_bars := false
}
Bitters
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada303 Posts
December 29 2010 20:48 GMT
#189
you capitalized strategy but didn't capitalize REAL TIME....

if you don't like the idea that the game requires you to focus on both micro and macro actions, then play something turn-based.

holynorth
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States590 Posts
December 29 2010 20:52 GMT
#190
On December 29 2010 14:30 roadrunner343 wrote:
For about the fourth time this thread: Licensing a freaking name doesn't make it a "Blizzard" product.

The Razer Marauder is no more a Blizzard product than the Razer Lycosa... or the Logitech G15 for that matter. All three of them are third party products. Licensing a name doesn't mean it's a Blizzard product.

I suppose Blizzard makes "official" mouse pads too, not steel series... right? Somebody shoot me now, the stupidity is overwhelming. I'd expect to have to explain it once, but I've done it what... 3, 4 times now? And I've seen other people explain the same thing. And for everyone of our replies, there's another 3-4 idiots saying the same, incorrect horse crap about the Marauder being an "Official Blizzard Product."

I fell in love with the TL forums because this kind of stupidity didn't exist... could you return the the battlenet forums please?

EDIT: ROFL... advertising something on your website makes it YOUR product? Google owns about 90% of the internet... hell, I saw this gear advertised on amazon... it must be an OFFICIAL (Caps for you Chessicat) Amazon product then.



Well, for the Xth time, yes it does. Once upon a time Google ads had a bunch of Buy WoW Gold on the Official WoW forums. Of course it was quickly taken and down and it was changed to something else. However, any users that were banned for buying gold shortly after that, could simply say they clicked the link on the WoW forum. Guess what happened? Blizzard unbanned them.

Any person with a brain could argue that they were endorsing it, despite what it says in the ToS. (This same person could argue that 1% of all users even read the ToS, and therefore the person assumed buying gold would be ok).

The same applies with the Spectre/Marauder. Blizzard cannot and will not ban you for this. They will more than likely make a public statement claiming they will, but it will only be a threat. They fucked up by endorsing the razer products and supporting them on their own page.

Besides, you won't get caught if the products work like the Black WIdow anyways.
AScenT
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
December 29 2010 20:53 GMT
#191
On December 30 2010 05:44 troynt wrote:
The game is a real time STRATEGY game. Anything that gets in the way of strategy makes the game less about strategy and thus less fun.

Frankly, I don't buy not allowing macros. Technology has made macros/remapping keys readily available. Everyone has access to this, there is no unfair advantage gained if everyone has access to the same stuff. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to remap keys or build simple macros.

What is a simple macro? To me, it means anything that doesn't factor in time. So if I press one button it can type glhf gg .... however it can't do some action, wait a bit, do another action -- this would be similar to botting.

Botting != Remapping Keys OR simple macros

The following is a quick sample of a macro, using Autohotkey, one may want to use.

Health Bar Toggler
+ Show Spoiler +

#SingleInstance force
#MaxThreadsPerHotkey 1

showing_health_bars := false
LWin up::
if not showing_health_bars
{
Send, {\ down}
Send, {[ down}
Send, {] down}
showing_health_bars := true
}
else
{
Send, {\ up}
Send, {[ up}
Send, {] up}
showing_health_bars := false
}
Show nested quote +


You are correct, botting is not remapping hotkeys or macros like your example. I think the confusion spawns in the fact that bots ARE macros, but macros are not necessarily bots. The macro you described does not automate game actions for you. Automating larvae inject on the other hand does, therefore is a bot.
chessiecat
Profile Joined December 2010
82 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-29 21:01:35
December 29 2010 20:58 GMT
#192
I gotta say, until you've actually tried it it's tough to say how much these macro's actually affect the game itself.

I've been screwing with them and frankly...the answer is not much. Sad, but there it is. They simplify a few button presses but you're still required to make EVERY basic decision from 'Do I drone now or do I make units now?' to 'Should I wall this part of my base? Am I likely to be attacked from this direction or that direction? yourself. You can't automate the game using them.

The auto-inject macro DOES NOT WORK. It simulates the actions without actually performing them reliably and the heart of a macro is that it improves the game. Once you're on three bases, you'll spend half your time off chasing Queens who've caught a case of the derp from your macro set-up and gone for a wander.

They're not going to make a Gold level player platinum or even a Bronze level player Silver. They will give you a tiny in basic command execution but the more complex the macro the more frequently they fail. Anything over 1 second long is going to fail about half the time. Anything longer than that is going to fail constantly. The chaotic nature of the game makes your input as a player (your knowledge of the game and plan) far more essential than your speed and all the macro's do is simplify some things and put them closer at hand.

In many circumstances the macro's will make things worse. Brushing a macro with the wrong units selected can have disastrous consequences. You can lose an entire game to one over-complicated macro going off. You have to be VERY selective with them and they must be simple to get any help from them.
holynorth
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States590 Posts
December 29 2010 20:59 GMT
#193
On December 30 2010 05:58 chessiecat wrote:
I gotta say, until you've actually tried it it's tough to say how much these macro's actually effect the game itself.

I've been screwing with them and frankly...the answer is not much. Sad, but there it is. They simplify a few button presses but you're still required to make EVERY basic decision from 'Do I drone now or do I make units now?' to 'Should I wall this part of my base? Am I likely to be attacked from this direction or that direction? yourself. You can't automate the game using them.

They're not going to make a Gold level player platinum or even a Bronze level player Silver. They will give you a tiny in basic command execution but the more complex the macro the more frequently they fail. Anything over 1 second long is going to fail about half the time. Anything longer than that is going to fail constantly. The chaotic nature of the game makes your input far more essential than your speed and all the macro's do is simplify some things and put them closer at hand.


But the problem is when top players get ahold of this. It would make a world of difference if a Zerg player could quickly inject 4-5 bases, allowing them to focus on other things.
troynt
Profile Joined July 2010
United States22 Posts
December 29 2010 21:02 GMT
#194
@Bitters Please provide a sample of a macro, that doesn't make use of time delays, that would take focus away from either. I think you are confusing micro and macro actions with bad user experience.

A) Pressing f1 to builds a drone. <= Macro action
B) Pressing 5, s, d builds a drone. <= Macro Action ( bad user experience, too many clicks )

They are both macro actions, they both require the same mental abilities.

B takes 2 more keypresses. Will those 2 keypresses change the outcome of the game?
Answer: It should not. If it does, we should to re-evaluate the game, as it shouldn't be about spamming drones.
AScenT
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
December 29 2010 21:03 GMT
#195
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not arguing that you will get banned. I agree with holynorth in the fact that they will likely say "you aren't supposed to" and not ban anyone. I'm also not saying that botting will give you a great advantage, or any advantage at all. All I'm trying to point out is that blizzard can ban you for it if they choose to, and that you can't complain if they do.
limonovich
Profile Joined September 2010
England226 Posts
December 29 2010 21:07 GMT
#196
so you're bad at the game and have to use macros? lolololol
trololo
scDeluX
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada1341 Posts
December 29 2010 21:59 GMT
#197
I hope the Warden catches you and beat you up.
Brood War is forever
roadrunner343
Profile Joined November 2010
148 Posts
December 29 2010 22:26 GMT
#198
On December 30 2010 05:52 holynorth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2010 14:30 roadrunner343 wrote:
For about the fourth time this thread: Licensing a freaking name doesn't make it a "Blizzard" product.

The Razer Marauder is no more a Blizzard product than the Razer Lycosa... or the Logitech G15 for that matter. All three of them are third party products. Licensing a name doesn't mean it's a Blizzard product.

I suppose Blizzard makes "official" mouse pads too, not steel series... right? Somebody shoot me now, the stupidity is overwhelming. I'd expect to have to explain it once, but I've done it what... 3, 4 times now? And I've seen other people explain the same thing. And for everyone of our replies, there's another 3-4 idiots saying the same, incorrect horse crap about the Marauder being an "Official Blizzard Product."

I fell in love with the TL forums because this kind of stupidity didn't exist... could you return the the battlenet forums please?

EDIT: ROFL... advertising something on your website makes it YOUR product? Google owns about 90% of the internet... hell, I saw this gear advertised on amazon... it must be an OFFICIAL (Caps for you Chessicat) Amazon product then.



Well, for the Xth time, yes it does. Once upon a time Google ads had a bunch of Buy WoW Gold on the Official WoW forums. Of course it was quickly taken and down and it was changed to something else. However, any users that were banned for buying gold shortly after that, could simply say they clicked the link on the WoW forum. Guess what happened? Blizzard unbanned them.

Any person with a brain could argue that they were endorsing it, despite what it says in the ToS. (This same person could argue that 1% of all users even read the ToS, and therefore the person assumed buying gold would be ok).

The same applies with the Spectre/Marauder. Blizzard cannot and will not ban you for this. They will more than likely make a public statement claiming they will, but it will only be a threat. They fucked up by endorsing the razer products and supporting them on their own page.

Besides, you won't get caught if the products work like the Black WIdow anyways.


This is such a horrendously stupid post (Poster?) it's hilarious. Nothing in your post was remotely related to mine. You went on a tangent about nothing, and are still too stupid to realize: It's a Razer product, not a blizzard one. They licensed the name and artwork. That's it.
gcoin
Profile Joined November 2010
United States89 Posts
December 29 2010 22:46 GMT
#199
i type in "fuck you" and all my scv/marines rush into my opponents base.
Terran for Life. Never compromise Not even in the face of Armageddon
chessiecat
Profile Joined December 2010
82 Posts
December 30 2010 00:04 GMT
#200
One single post from Blizzard that says you can't bind two actions to one hotkey. I'll eat my hat. I have a hat I can eat and it's a nice one. I beg you! Just post something to make all of this end and I will kiss your toes and chew on this lovely leather head-piece.

ANYwhere in the Terms of Service or any Blizzard post by any Blizzard employee where this is laid out in explicit terms.
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