EPTI don't have any question at the moment, just saying thanks
[D] [G] Zerg FAQ - Page 2
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HydroXy
United States513 Posts
I don't have any question at the moment, just saying thanks | ||
Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On November 24 2010 03:14 Wire wrote: vs. 4gate warpgate: do you sit in your base and prepare to defend that initial attack or is there a way to engage them outside your base? if engaging outside your base, do you focus down the pylon first to stop reinforcing units or focus on the existing units first? First Part : In a perfect world your going to be able to bring in 1/2 of your zerglings and 1/2 of your roaches from behind the protoss army quick enough that he can't completely block out that half of your army, and you'll use the other 1/2 of your force along with your queen and however many drones you need to help attack on that side. Once you have destroyed his army, his four gate build will be very very weak. Second Part: If you engage outside, you simply try and do a well timed flank attempting to use all 4 directions. If you can kill the pylon with zerglings only, without revealing the size of your army outside of your base, then by all means you should do that. Sniping the probe, and preventing more probes from coming along can also help if you can do it without losing that many units. Mainly its getting enough drones, but not too many!! | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On November 24 2010 02:29 Sheth wrote: 7. How do I stop Banshees? + Show Spoiler [Answer 7] + Very Good question young zerg. The best way to do this is with proper scouting. By sending in an overlord at a critical time you can detect these banshees and defend properly. There are two different types of banshee attacks. (2 starport or 1 starport cloak) The best way to defend 2 starport is with 3 queens (at least, depending on your drone situation) and then getting several spine crawlers and watching the terran and reacting. To defend 1 starport cloak it is best to have 3 queens, and an overlord. If you keep the 3rd queen in the center of your main and natural you can move it in to help infuse your one queen with health while bringing it and your 3rd queen to help. 1. What is the 'critical time' that you send your overlord in? 2. When do you get lair vs 2 starport banshees? 3. In ZvP, how do you usually respond to 15 nex, gate nex, or forge nex (basically any protoss FE build)? 4. In ZvZ, do you have a 'standard' BO? If not, what about a set of standard BOs? How does the map affect your opening? How do you decide whether to pool-first, hatch-first, or gas-first? | ||
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Dragon768
Malaysia4 Posts
I'm going to try get get burrow and tunneling claws before the 4gate attack comes. Hope it'll work. **Edit: Thanks for the guide on the multi directonal attack. I normally have this difficulty when my protoss opponent spawn in the nearest location (metalopolis, lost temple) so there's on proxy pylon. Your answer made me more confident that 4 gate can be handled well without stress. Thx. @sleepingdog, Thanks for the info from stealth protos.  | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1232 Posts
I've got one question for now, ZvP: Toss opens with phoenix. You have to scout it at ~5:00-6:00 with an overlord. Correct? Then: What do you do? More queens? Spores? Hydras? I often lose 2 queens and 2-3 overs with their first push and hate investing heavily in AA, since you will never know how much P invests into air. You won't be able to overscout because of the phoenix and sporecrawler are expensive and often useless. Usually, when I eventually defend my two bases, I'm feeling behind and got no idea what to build and how to scout. Going hyds: Yes, if you get some hyds you can defend against phoenix, but 1. P will just relax, build colossi and roflstomp you or 2. if you decide to attack, P will harrass your main to death when your hyds leave. This is especially true on big maps, since hyds are so sluggish and his phoenix will maintain map control and snipe whatever they see. And usually P gets some cannons + WG units so that if your hyds finally arrive they won't do great damage anyway. How do you deal with this? | ||
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Novachi
Denmark44 Posts
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Cambam
United States360 Posts
Also, how do I keep the 4 gate push from waltzing behind my natural's mineral line and force fielding himself in. I'd need 5-9 spine crawlers to block the whole natural well, is that what I need? Finally, getting your ramp forcefielded seems to be an instant-gg, how do you prevent it? Especially on maps like delta quadrant where it takes a while to get creep and thus spine crawlers over there? Thanks! | ||
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mathemagician1986
Germany549 Posts
Interestingly going hatch first doesn't give you such a great boost compared to a 14gas 14 pool 21 expand build, as you only gain extra larvae during the time your fast expansion is up (especially as people tend to place a creep tumour with one of their queens; if you vomit larvae on both hatcheries ASAP it's different). So, are hatch first build overrated or am I missing something? | ||
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Jtn
444 Posts
I'm having trouble keeping consistent groupings game per game. Like I'll have lings as 1 and blings as 2 early game, but later on if I switch to roaches, I'll have them on 3, but when I transition, I'll have them back on 1 or some crazy shit and have mutas on 3. I DUNNO HELP | ||
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
Btw Sheth, Just so you know, Saracen attempted a similiar undertaking a while back and created a thread too with DarKforCe helping out. However it filled up VERY fast, but mostly with just ppls asking the same question over and over and over and over again. Perhaps updating the op with subgroups will help reduce the numbers of repeated questions? It'll reduce your load and makes it easier for TL'ers to search for questions. Just a thought =] (damnit answer my question already, i need to make breakfast and go to my exam T_T) Shit 4got to say thanks in advance. So THANKS HEAPS. Wiill check back after exam. | ||
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DeltruS
Canada2214 Posts
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.MadHaT
Canada76 Posts
My question concerns the Protoss mid game push. I've adjusted to learning how to properly defend the 4gate, and a majority of the time I can handle standard zealots/stalkers with or without sentry 4gate pushes unless I'm caught off guard by a sneaky sneaky pylon or something. However, after fending off the initial early 4gate push, and saturating my main and natural I seem to fall a lot to the mid game ~5/6 gate with colossus push. Was wondering when I should scout out for colossus, when to get the spire for corrupters, and generally how to manage my army to handle the big midgame push from toss (generally as they expand while they're pushing)? Thanks! | ||
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dreamend
64 Posts
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Urth
United States1252 Posts
If the ops open roaches, and you open hatch first, how do you respond? | ||
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On November 24 2010 03:38 jAck_sc2 wrote: I've read already 100 thread about ZvZ, but I still dont get to the breakthrough. ZvT and ZvP seems so simple to me and I usually understand where I fucked up after watching the replay of a lost match. But for ZvZ it seems that I simply don't understand what I have to pay attention for. Do you got some general tips on what to focus in ZvZ? What are the most important aspects about ZvZ? It was mentioned before, that it is important to be ahead in economy. But how the hell can I know if I'm leading or not? How do I judge when it's a good moment to produce drones? And are we talking about squeezing out 1-2 drones or like a few injections worth of drones? ZvZ is all about stages. The first stage of the game, is scouting. You have to find out what your opponent is building. In order to do this, sending your first 2 overlords to check for an expansion and then to continue your build in regards to his. If he fast expands you can fast expand back, or you can try and do 1 hatch aggression play. Its always a good idea to get 6-8+ zerglings as well to scout and defend early zerglings from your opponent. After you've done that you have to choose whether to get zergling speed and more lings, banelings with lings, or roaches. Its kind of like rock paper scissors. Pure lings > Roaches > Banelings > Pure lings. You just have to scout,and be smart about it. 2nd part. It'll come with time when you know your ahead or not. Generally if you don't stop any of his attacks, and he doenst stop any of yours, your about even. If one of you loses units for nothing your behind. Gotta use common sence, and scouting. Have overlords around to see his army and his production units. If he has alot of gates or barracks then perhaps hes all-in and your already ahead in drones. If hes expo'ed 3 times, then your probably behind, but you probably have enough of an army to pressure him. @ Hammurabi Most matchups favor Ultralisks for late game. However it can be a good idea, to get a few broodlords to make your opponent get vikings or void rays, and then to go ultralisks and say hydralisks. Ultralisks are very good end game vs. mech, and very good end game vs. protoss. Broodlords can be a great harass unit vs. t, but they've lost some of their luster in games vs. protoss! | ||
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On November 24 2010 03:44 sleepingdog wrote: Stealth protoss here trying to reap some intel: What's in your opinion the best response to the nowadays very common 5/6 gate timing attack (~10 minutes ingame), mostly with +1 off two base (be it after a stalker-harass, be it after a sentry-expand, the timings are very similar). Because I found that for a classic ling/muta-play you'd probably have to go crazy on spines....for roach-openings I think early burrow? Don't let yourselves limit by my guesses. Although I'm protoss I hope it's ok to ask what's the best response to this timing-push is, because I'm curious to learn about the biggest weaknesses this heavy gateway push with delayed tech has from the perspective of a zerg-player. I find the best way to deal with this is roaches with speed, zerglings and perhaps a quick move into hydralisks to help. Using your zerglings to harass the protoss's natural whenever he moves out can also delay and help. You can't attack in a choke point, you have to find open ground, be it near your main or out in the open. If you have burrow you can micro roach burrow, or just simply wait for the protoss to be above your army before attacking. That's the best way I've found in order to defeat protoss who do that build order! | ||
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On November 24 2010 03:51 BlasiuS wrote: Here's some questions: 1. What is the 'critical time' that you send your overlord in? 2. When do you get lair vs 2 starport banshees? 3. In ZvP, how do you usually respond to 15 nex, gate nex, or forge nex (basically any protoss FE build)? 4. In ZvZ, do you have a 'standard' BO? If not, what about a set of standard BOs? How does the map affect your opening? How do you decide whether to pool-first, hatch-first, or gas-first? Heya Blas, 1. Once you've seen the factory completed, and you can see that hes going either reactor or techlab hellions, its imperitive that you learn more. You should run your overlord in from the side to check a little after hes started pumping hellions. If there is no factory out front, then you want to just check along the edges and suicide at around the same timing as you would for an imaginary factory finishing. 2. Depending on how quickly you see the starports I'll get it once I've gotten 3 queens and spore crawlers up. 1-2 spore's per base is very helpful vs. this. You can start it earlier though if you didn't get ling speed. 3. I generally do a 13 pool build order vs. protoss, so I just straight up kill 15 nexus, I put pressure if they gate nexus. If they do Forge Nexus, I realize they can't put pressure on me so I'll take 3 bases and macro roaches and scout with an overseer and base my tech on what I see. 4. I have two standards. I put them both in the FAQ part of this thread. You just have to change it up depending on what you think your opponent will do and the map. Scrap station for instance you can't 14 hatch and hold it where as Metal its alot easier. | ||
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On November 24 2010 03:53 Antithesis wrote: Great thread, thank you guys! I've got one question for now, ZvP: Toss opens with phoenix. You have to scout it at ~5:00-6:00 with an overlord. Correct? Then: What do you do? More queens? Spores? Hydras? I often lose 2 queens and 2-3 overs with their first push and hate investing heavily in AA, since you will never know how much P invests into air. You won't be able to overscout because of the phoenix and sporecrawler are expensive and often useless. Usually, when I eventually defend my two bases, I'm feeling behind and got no idea what to build and how to scout. Going hyds: Yes, if you get some hyds you can defend against phoenix, but 1. P will just relax, build colossi and roflstomp you or 2. if you decide to attack, P will harrass your main to death when your hyds leave. This is especially true on big maps, since hyds are so sluggish and his phoenix will maintain map control and snipe whatever they see. And usually P gets some cannons + WG units so that if your hyds finally arrive they won't do great damage anyway. How do you deal with this? This question is actually fairly simple for me to answer. I'll generally get 3 queens fairly early. This has the added benefit that I can protect my queens if I see phoenix. If they have a large enough ammount I might even get a fourth queen. If I go pure hydras to counter this then I'll simply attack and if they harass my main use my queens to defend the best they can and try and kill the P before the collosus are out or at least do major damage. (It helps ALOT to get overlords speed and have a creep highway to their base) You don't always have to sacrifice a overlord vs. protoss. Alot of the time you can tell what a protoss is going to do based on their choice of warp gate unit and how many you see. If they have 3 warpgates and their not expanding you know something tricky is going on and you can prepare by getting an overseer and perhaps a 4th queen. Try blindly going hydralisks sometimes before you even see pheonix and then you can kill the protoss right after you defend the first wave of pheonix. Its a blind counter, but sometimes it works like a charm! @Novachi There is no such thing as a standard safe build against all ins. Its very all-in specific. The build that protects against Banshees will let you die against marine pressure. You have to figure out which all-in their doing and counter it apppropriatly. | ||
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On November 24 2010 04:08 Cambam wrote: What do you do about a sentry heavy (6-8) 4 gate push? A lot people say make zerglings and feint him to make him waste force fields, but I feel like a good protoss will either not use any, or make sure he traps a lot of lings if he does. I feel like I have to mass roaches, because any zergling made is wasted against a sentry army. Also, how do I keep the 4 gate push from waltzing behind my natural's mineral line and force fielding himself in. I'd need 5-9 spine crawlers to block the whole natural well, is that what I need? Finally, getting your ramp forcefielded seems to be an instant-gg, how do you prevent it? Especially on maps like delta quadrant where it takes a while to get creep and thus spine crawlers over there? Thanks! This question is not easy to answer in text. Basically what you have to do is mix roaches + zerglings. You also can't let him get to your ramp with that many sentries. You have to use roaches and lings with minimum ammount of spine crawlers and try and surround and flank him. The answer I gave in the FAQ pretty much works for this question, so check it out if you havn't already. Zergling feint's are a bad idea because you let the protoss know where your zerglings are. IF you show zerglings you better be prepared to flank and attack the protoss, letting them regain shields after your attack dies is a certain path to you GG'ing at the end of the game! @MatheMagician Yea your missing a lot! If you don't think there's a huge difference in economy between a 14 hatch and a 14 gas pool 21 expand build try them both out on a build order tester. You'll have a lot more of every resource with 14 hatch. Yes it is risky, I don't recommend doing this vs. Protoss, however vs. Terran I find it my favorite starting build. | ||
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resilve
United Kingdom678 Posts
My question is: how do you view a 5/7 roach push into ~34 supply expand in close positions against protoss? I cant seem to hold a 14hatch against extremely early zealots or zealot/stalkers. | ||
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