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Hi guys! I am playing zerg from start of my adventure with sc2 and now I am pretty high level because about 2,2k diamond. To this point It was fairly easy, but now I got huge problems with Terran and Protoss so I want to ask you some questions.
Vs. Terran
1. We got situation like this: I went 15 hatch 14 pool and I am massing drones. How can I know that he is going to push me? In 90% of games Terran goes with bio ball push or with thor, scvs and some rins and I have nothing cause I was making eco. On the other hand I start doing roaches but one minute later I see expo from him. Then I have some units but no economy and he overmacro me.
2. What is the best counter for pure terran mech? I tried ultra, ling, bling and infestor but Ultralisk are focusing hellio while thors are taking them down very quickly and lings are taken down by tanks. I tried BL but counter for this is very very easy (vikings). So what then?
Vs. Protoss
Vs protoss I got only one question: How the f*** can I scout him?? When I try to sac my Overlord Stalkers take it down before I can see anything. It is for me impossible to play without information and in ZvP I just can't scout. I dont know if there are going to be blink stalkers or 4 warpgate or mby he is planning void rays. Should I drone up or make units?. Tech or mass? I am never sure...
PS. Your thread is great, keep doing it guys, It is fantastic!
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Hey doods! I've recently started playing zerg (switched from terran because I don't really like the style of play) but I'm pretty lost. I know generally what unit compositions I need and I'm learning to react but, I'm used to a structured play (getting X building at X of X food, and so on). My question is, can this be done for zerg, should it be done for zerg and if not should I just be taking a general note of when is a good idea to get tech structures? (for example baneling nest while lair is morphing vs T or hydra after you have a decent number of roaches vs P?)
Thanks, root rocks.
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i'm a relatively good zvz player. if i scout hatch first, one base roach, or one base muta, i will almost always win.
but the one thing that i have a huge problem with is the occasional zerg that still goes banelings. i simply have no idea how i am to properly handle that. i don't want to get roaches, because that gives him the freedom to expand. i don't want to open speedling, either, as generally i just lose the lings. what do you feel is the best way to handle baneling openings?
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What are your guys thoughts on one-basing? Is there ever an advantage to it or is it always better to expand?
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This is great and would love if you (or someone else) would keep updating this with community Q&A input.
Thanks for sharing.
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United States2095 Posts
On November 27 2010 08:37 lindn wrote:
okay so here's the situation, i'm zerg he's terran on delta, i'm 6 and he's 3. i scout out standard rax, see him putting a factory at the front and a bunker and a tech going down, i fear early hellion and/or banshees so i put up spines, get extra lings and with the minerals i could spare between saturating my two bases and woop, double starport, 2 banshees in my base and 2 more on the way and all i've got is 3 queens and a unfinished creep road between my bases since the distance between them is so long.
i probably should have sacced an ovie but i completely forgot it, i did however have it by his backdoor expo which spotted the banshees.
my question: if i scout rax and factory, when should i go lair? and should i really cut drone production for a pretty long time just to get the extra queen up directly after the first one? or else i won't be able to put down the creep fast enough it seems. however 150 minerals is a spine less in my nat against hellion harass or even delayed ling speed.
Lindn, its very important for you to use your early economy properly. If you see your opponent going barracks and then a factory in front, you'll want to minimize the ammount of lings you make at first, because theres not going to be that much early early pressure. If you make 1 spine crawler and 1 queen that can stop whatever early early harass the T uses on most maps. Certain maps such as Xel'naga and Delta can make this hard (Like you said) so on those maps getting a second spine is a good idea early. I know this seems like your using up alot of minerals, however it works well if u perhaps just delay getting gas a little bit. If you see 2 port banshees, other then getting a few extra queens I recomend throwing down a evolution chamber, and putting down a few spore crawlers in good placement. Hope that helps a little bit! (P.S. Yea sacc'ing an overlord is nessecary if u don't know the T's tech!)
@Accachtin Yea the first one happens to me ALOT. The second one, if they get that close to your hatcheries your in trouble man! And the third one is pretty close to the second one! =)
oh and it was a 14 hatch 14 pool with no spotting on gas timings as i scouted wrong way twice
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United States2095 Posts
On November 28 2010 02:28 Netto. wrote:Hi guys! I am playing zerg from start of my adventure with sc2 and now I am pretty high level because about 2,2k diamond. To this point It was fairly easy, but now I got huge problems with Terran and Protoss so I want to ask you some questions. Vs. Terran 1. We got situation like this: I went 15 hatch 14 pool and I am massing drones. How can I know that he is going to push me? In 90% of games Terran goes with bio ball push or with thor, scvs and some rins and I have nothing cause I was making eco. On the other hand I start doing roaches but one minute later I see expo from him. Then I have some units but no economy and he overmacro me. 2. What is the best counter for pure terran mech? I tried ultra, ling, bling and infestor but Ultralisk are focusing hellio while thors are taking them down very quickly and lings are taken down by tanks. I tried BL but counter for this is very very easy (vikings). So what then? Vs. Protoss Vs protoss I got only one question: How the f*** can I scout him?? When I try to sac my Overlord Stalkers take it down before I can see anything. It is for me impossible to play without information and in ZvP I just can't scout. I dont know if there are going to be blink stalkers or 4 warpgate or mby he is planning void rays. Should I drone up or make units?. Tech or mass? I am never sure... PS. Your thread is great, keep doing it guys, It is fantastic!
1. This is actually very simple. You should sacrifice an overlord for scouting information once you're curious what t's doing. After a while you should make an overseer to scout and infest his buildings whenever you have the extra gas and a lair.
2. You can fake Broodlords and then go ultra / ling / infestor. The infestors are doubley good, because not only do they fungal they shoot infested terrans onto tank lines, think BOOM. I prefer ultralisk vs. this pure tank style and just being smart about attacking.
VS. Protoss
It helps alot to have both an overlord on his ramp, if you can and a ling on his ramp to find his unit composition. IF you send your ling into his base every once in a while you can see his unit composition and this should help a bit!
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United States2095 Posts
On November 28 2010 06:55 LolaLA wrote:
Hey doods! I've recently started playing zerg (switched from terran because I don't really like the style of play) but I'm pretty lost. I know generally what unit compositions I need and I'm learning to react but, I'm used to a structured play (getting X building at X of X food, and so on). My question is, can this be done for zerg, should it be done for zerg and if not should I just be taking a general note of when is a good idea to get tech structures? (for example baneling nest while lair is morphing vs T or hydra after you have a decent number of roaches vs P?)
Thanks, root rocks.
You'll want to make a certain tech structure just in general, say a baneling nest. Then you'll want to add on whatever you need to deal with the terran's knowledge of your baneling nest. So if he goes maruaders to deal with your banes, you throw down a spire. Things like that.
P.S. Thanks :D
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I'm having a problem of when to attack as Zerg. I'll usually only attack if I crush their army or have 200/200. What's generally a good time 2 attack? Should I counter attack? Do a timing push? Besides harassing with mutas of course.
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What do you do against a 1 base terran push with mauraders blue flame hellions and thors with scvs repairing? Had alot of trouble with this one.
EDIT: Only one thor and a few blue hellions with lots of mauraders but the thor tanked the spine crawlers and the hellions killed so many lings.
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United States2095 Posts
On December 01 2010 01:13 raf3776 wrote:
I'm having a problem of when to attack as Zerg. I'll usually only attack if I crush their army or have 200/200. What's generally a good time 2 attack? Should I counter attack? Do a timing push? Besides harassing with mutas of course.
It completely depends on the match up. ZvZ you want to wait till you get a perfect 200/200 army that counters theirs. ZvT you'll want to attack at a time when you have the minerals to remake a good 200/200 army that will be able to damage him. Versus Protoss you'll want to attack a good location RIGHT when you reach 200/200. (All of these are general answers there are ofc situations where that isn't the smart move! (turtle terran for instance!)
@Storm
For both of these compositions I find the best counter to be mass roach with a few infestors for both fungal and infested terrans. You can also throw in a few lings ofc! (Fungal the scvs or hellions!!)
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So good at replying fast Sheth <3
So as I switched to zerg ive been going from 50th bronze to top 10 gold so far this week. Mostly just have been destroying through basic mechanics until now, despite being unfamiliar with the race. But a huge trend ive noticed as im moving up is terrans having an identity crisis, believing in fact they are all Foxer. Even with a very minimal amount of micro 2 rax (into more rax) marine pressure is just VERY hard for me to deal with right now. I feel I can hold the initial pressure most of the time, with a few banes. But the follow up with marauder shields is usually what ends up finishing the game.
So what is the best approach here? Do I go for early speedling/bling. Or keep slow lings/bling and fast tech to lair for bling speed? Do I then combine with ling speed? Or maybe another unit as lings dont seem to cut it especially if they get a few medivacs. Really struggling with both the proper order of upgrade/unit production vs this as well as the perfect composition.
*edit* Also, as far as follow up. Unless you suggest going muta vs the above which seems very difficult to me, but you would know. Im guessing the proper transition is to just take map control, since mutas will probably be difficutl to get in numbers based on the upgrade/unit cost in gas required to deal with the early portion. So just map control/expand and just disregard trying to harass him, and just starve him out?
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I have a question about the 2 base 6 Warp Gate (or 5Gate 1Robo) +1 timing attack by protoss. I am having serious issues holding this off and I lost 3 games in a row to this today. I can post the replays when I get home from work. My question is what is the most efficient way to hold this attack off? I asked one of the guys who did it and he suggested Mutalisk harass but it seems to me that Mutalisks will come too late too few and my ground army will be very weak when he pushes.
The only thing I have had a little bit of success with is roach/hydra (not range upgraded) with spine crawlers, but even this falls to forcefields. I am at 2K diamond so the protoss all know how to forcefield well enough to completely negate my ability to defend en force.
I get out of work in 3 and a half hours I'll post my replays then. But any suggestions would be lovely.
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If I can't hotkey worth a damn, am I useless as zerg? I mean, macro I am getting better at, but hotkeying I am just terribad at.
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On December 02 2010 07:57 Alvas wrote:
If I can't hotkey worth a damn, am I useless as zerg? I mean, macro I am getting better at, but hotkeying I am just terribad at.
Not really a reason to pick or not pick a race imo. As you will just get better and better at it as you continue to play and practice.
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United States2095 Posts
On December 02 2010 06:12 my0s wrote:
So good at replying fast Sheth <3
So as I switched to zerg ive been going from 50th bronze to top 10 gold so far this week. Mostly just have been destroying through basic mechanics until now, despite being unfamiliar with the race. But a huge trend ive noticed as im moving up is terrans having an identity crisis, believing in fact they are all Foxer. Even with a very minimal amount of micro 2 rax (into more rax) marine pressure is just VERY hard for me to deal with right now. I feel I can hold the initial pressure most of the time, with a few banes. But the follow up with marauder shields is usually what ends up finishing the game.
So what is the best approach here? Do I go for early speedling/bling. Or keep slow lings/bling and fast tech to lair for bling speed? Do I then combine with ling speed? Or maybe another unit as lings dont seem to cut it especially if they get a few medivacs. Really struggling with both the proper order of upgrade/unit production vs this as well as the perfect composition.
*edit* Also, as far as follow up. Unless you suggest going muta vs the above which seems very difficult to me, but you would know. Im guessing the proper transition is to just take map control, since mutas will probably be difficutl to get in numbers based on the upgrade/unit cost in gas required to deal with the early portion. So just map control/expand and just disregard trying to harass him, and just starve him out?
Haha your question here is basically "Hey how do I deal with a foxer build?" Its a very broad question!! There are plenty of different options, you can get this speedling / bling or even no speed/bling. I find for my own prefference that I like speedling / baneling into either mutas or infestors. (I'll send an overseer into their base and if I see turrets or thor I won't go muta and instead I'll go infestor) So basically just scout the terran, make SURE SURE SURE you keep a ling on the xel'naga towers and one in front of his base. If hes close positions, make sure you always have a good ammount of lings out to flank him if he attacks or even for you to counter! Hope that helps, its kind of a broad answer but hey!
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United States2095 Posts
On December 02 2010 07:19 MorsCerta wrote:
I have a question about the 2 base 6 Warp Gate (or 5Gate 1Robo) +1 timing attack by protoss. I am having serious issues holding this off and I lost 3 games in a row to this today. I can post the replays when I get home from work. My question is what is the most efficient way to hold this attack off? I asked one of the guys who did it and he suggested Mutalisk harass but it seems to me that Mutalisks will come too late too few and my ground army will be very weak when he pushes.
The only thing I have had a little bit of success with is roach/hydra (not range upgraded) with spine crawlers, but even this falls to forcefields. I am at 2K diamond so the protoss all know how to forcefield well enough to completely negate my ability to defend en force.
I get out of work in 3 and a half hours I'll post my replays then. But any suggestions would be lovely.
Hey there MorsCerta,
Versus a very specific timing push such as this 6 warp gate or 5 warp gate with a robo, your goal for the whole thing is to be able to come out of their attack with more drones then he has probes and a fairly sizable army. So depending on his timing (how many probes does he have ? 30? 36? 43?) you'll have to make a different composition. If you ever fear him coming early and you see he's cut probes and he has this very sentry heavy build, what I recommend is that you have half of your force outside of you base (at LEAST all your speedlings at the time) so they can come around and flank. I feel the best composition for 6 warp gate is to have roaches with burrow and speedlings, vs. 5 gate robo, its more difficult, but if they have alot of immortals perhaps roach / hydra / ling. For both of these builds make sure you get a few spinecrawlers they can be very helpful! (3rd queen for transfusions is also a plus!)
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United States2095 Posts
On December 02 2010 07:57 Alvas wrote:
If I can't hotkey worth a damn, am I useless as zerg? I mean, macro I am getting better at, but hotkeying I am just terribad at.
Basically what myos said! You'll be a little worse with whatever race you play if your not hotkeying, so get to work on practicing it and stay with zerg!! : )
@Cadgers
Its always better to have one more base then your opponent. Always take your second hatch as early as you can comfortably!! (Unless your doing a timing attack from 1 base)
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Vs Zerg
1. When I play a macro game against Zergs and my Lair hatches, is it safer to go Hydra Den or Infestor Pit?
2. When my gas starts building up, is it better to spend it on Hydra or Infestors. I notice my gas breaking the 1000s when massing Roach/Hydra.
Vs Toss
1. What is the best/safest lair tech opening against Toss? I usually go Muta/Ling against Toss so I go Spire when my Lair hatches but I feel like its not the safest decision because Muta/Ling is so vulnerable at small numbers.
2. When going Hydra/Roach and you scout a double Robo Collosi, whats a good Corruptor to Collosus ratio? Do you stay on Hydra/Roach/Corruptor when you see this, or do you rush to Ultras?
Vs Terran
1. I mainly go Muta/Ling/Baneling with the majority of my gas into Mutas. If I get countered by Mass Thor/Hellion/Marine, is it worth continuing with the Muta/Ling/Baneling or would it be better to go Roach/Hydra/Infestor. I know if I suddently switch to Roach/Hydra/Infestor, I wouldnt have the upgrades to back up this army
Thanks in advance for the help
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On December 02 2010 09:07 Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 07:19 MorsCerta wrote:
I have a question about the 2 base 6 Warp Gate (or 5Gate 1Robo) +1 timing attack by protoss. I am having serious issues holding this off and I lost 3 games in a row to this today. I can post the replays when I get home from work. My question is what is the most efficient way to hold this attack off? I asked one of the guys who did it and he suggested Mutalisk harass but it seems to me that Mutalisks will come too late too few and my ground army will be very weak when he pushes.
The only thing I have had a little bit of success with is roach/hydra (not range upgraded) with spine crawlers, but even this falls to forcefields. I am at 2K diamond so the protoss all know how to forcefield well enough to completely negate my ability to defend en force.
I get out of work in 3 and a half hours I'll post my replays then. But any suggestions would be lovely. Hey there MorsCerta, Versus a very specific timing push such as this 6 warp gate or 5 warp gate with a robo, your goal for the whole thing is to be able to come out of their attack with more drones then he has probes and a fairly sizable army. So depending on his timing (how many probes does he have ? 30? 36? 43?) you'll have to make a different composition. If you ever fear him coming early and you see he's cut probes and he has this very sentry heavy build, what I recommend is that you have half of your force outside of you base (at LEAST all your speedlings at the time) so they can come around and flank. I feel the best composition for 6 warp gate is to have roaches with burrow and speedlings, vs. 5 gate robo, its more difficult, but if they have alot of immortals perhaps roach / hydra / ling. For both of these builds make sure you get a few spinecrawlers they can be very helpful! (3rd queen for transfusions is also a plus!)
See the thing is, they poke when they expand with the 3 warp gates just to see if they can end the game, if I don't have enough units/SC to defend I'll just lost right there, in the meantime they are producing out of all 3 warpgates and building probes constantly. But I don't know if/when they cut probes DURING the game because I am being pressured. I don't know if they decided to just go all in 3gate +1, continue producing probes or if they tech up to robo/stargate/twilight. If I waste resources on speed ovies I will likely die at this point, if I build units I can't get enough drones, and if I get the drones I need my army isn't large enough to defend the poke.
This was the first 3 times I have really faced well done 6 gate+ 1 pushes but it seems like a very fine line between success and loss.
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EPT
