EPTI think the way I do it you get 1 less drone but you get your queen and meta boost faster. Have to do additional testing. Ill let you know.
[D] Unbeatable 2v2 Build ? (PZ) - Page 7
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Crensh
United States7 Posts
I think the way I do it you get 1 less drone but you get your queen and meta boost faster. Have to do additional testing. Ill let you know. | ||
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Geiko
France1942 Posts
On November 26 2010 11:56 Yilar wrote: I'm still confused, what happens if the other teams doesn't have a zerg and simply walls off their entrance or they have a shared entrance they can wall off? It might be strong, but most rushes are, especially vs zerg. Btw all your replays show games vs zerg enemies, except one where the protoss fails to keep the zerglings out (fail!) I forgot to address this sorry. Actually, teams with protoss are the easiest to deal with. The replay with Ore and Dreiven shows this. Sure Ore miss clicked a FF, but did we really the lings in her base to win ? Imagine you are protoss, and you are facing a korean 4WG rush. pretty hard to defend right ? You have to pull probes to kill the pylons, save chrono boost to get fast zealots and stalkers out etc... Its not that easy. Now imagine a 4WG korea where you can't kill the proxy pylon. Even harder right ? Now what about if instead of 4 zealots warping, you have 5 ! and whats more, you have one less zealot to fight that has to block the ramp. Its virtually impossible to defend alone. This is the power of this build. Even if you somehow manage to macro out enough army to be even with my 5 WG constant warp in, you still have 24 lings knocking at your door and eating away your gateway/pylon... Your terran buddy can't get out of his base to help or he will get surrounded by glings. (MM without stim or medvacs are useless in the open). @crench : The idea behind the zerg BO was that 11 drones is exactly enough to keep pumping only zerglings and overlords. I would have to test how 10 drones work out, but i fear that at some point you might be lacking minerals to use up all your larva (assuming good spawn larva timings). However maybe cutting a drone for a faster queen can give you a significant edge in the early part of the rush. let me know how it goes  | ||
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Goose-
Belgium65 Posts
That's basicly the only thing you have to do. Keep in mind tho every time you play vs pz in 2v2, your ally needs to go lings fast and scout for proxypylons or other proxyshit. Because you won't meet much pz teams in the higher ranks who play straight up... edit: as i don't save any 2v2 replays, i don't think i have any at the moment tho. But we won vs that honor & zephy guy like a week ago. So I suppose they knew how to execute this build properly. As you don't seem to believe that this actually can be countered :p. | ||
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Static AU
Australia1 Post
Thanks again! | ||
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NETRAT
Belarus180 Posts
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Mukester
United States27 Posts
On November 26 2010 23:29 NETRAT wrote: Won't this fail agains toss who simcity his main with cannons and rushes VRs or DTs? Zerg can simcity with spines and try 1base muta, terran can bunker and rush banshee. I don't think you will be able to break this. In beta I used to simcity a lot in team games and the only problem was banelings that blow out everything. Also why 5WG if you can't support it, why not 4WG like koreans do? wasn't the 4WG before the patch? so now there's an added building time to zealots so I'm pretty sure you can support 5 now. Also Geiko, me and my partner won against a seperate base double T game. they weren't that great but we still wiped the floor with them. pm me if u want me to find the replay. other thing, after going on a 20 win streak with this >.<, we encountered one thing that really set us off and eventually lost us the game. It was a double toss game and both of them sim-citied with stalkers. Don't know if this is common or not, first time i've seen it, but it gave us hell when using this build. | ||
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MICHELLE
Korea (South)199 Posts
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Geiko
France1942 Posts
Also, how do you kill pylons and overlords with late zerglings and marauders ? The terran can kill hi proxy pylon, maybe, but the one in zerg's base ? As for overlords... :p @Netrat : As i said I don't think i can lose a game to anyone who builds more three cannons in his base before 5 minutes. I won't be doing the build for sure though if I scout this ! Also, you can't support 5 WG, but that doesn't matter because you can support 2 rounds of 5 zealots which is enough to win you the game Like i've said previsouly, the money you save on in base pylons is what pays for the 5th gate and the extra zealots.@Musketeer : I know this strat works, I'm more interested in replays of this strat losing when executed correctly. Although i do like replay of you guys winning against famous players with it :D Show me the replay of you losing and i'll tell you what you did wrong. And if you did nothing wrong, i'll be happy to have found a counter. @MICHELLE : thanks for the interesting feedback | ||
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Goose-
Belgium65 Posts
On November 27 2010 00:44 Geiko wrote: @Goose : Replay or it didn't happen. Seriously though, i beleive that it's beatable but i need to see a replay ! Plus, i've spoken with honor and zephy and i know for a fact that they havn't been practising the build nor intend to do so too much, so maybe they were just trying it out for fun, and i doubt they can get it down perfectly the irst time they use it. Also, how do you kill pylons and overlords with late zerglings and marauders ? The terran can kill hi proxy pylon, maybe, but the one in zerg's base ? As for overlords... :p I played vs them when they did the normal zeal push and when they did a dt variant. Anyway I never said I went straight marauders, I go marines into marauders and my ally always 10 pools vs pz... So it's not that hard to kill a pylon/overlord then. Unless the other z can kill a marine/ling army with lings only... | ||
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ForellenLord
Germany10 Posts
This strat is very strong, but it has a weak point. When your oppenents built fast units like 7rr + MM mix and they share startingpositions - its a pain in the ass. 2vs1 is in most cases a gg. Problem is, if you play mirror strat xD. You have to do a LOT of scouting and you need luck :D But still, it works quite well | ||
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Geiko
France1942 Posts
On November 27 2010 01:51 Goose- wrote: I played vs them when they did the normal zeal push and when they did a dt variant. Anyway I never said I went straight marauders, I go marines into marauders and my ally always 10 pools vs pz... So it's not that hard to kill a pylon/overlord then. Unless the other z can kill a marine/ling army with lings only... Yeah, but if you read my OP, and all the comments i've made, it says this strat works only vs >12 pool or >12 gate. If we scout 10 pool, we just do a normal build. So beating my strat with early units is nothing special. @forenlord : Yeah but early 7RR are usually 10 pool so as above, you know not to do the build ? | ||
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nubster
United States49 Posts
It turns out that on tarsonis assault, if you put the pylon on the high ground like you suggested, 8 zerglings can physically block the entire area where the zealots can warp in (on that side at least) Also, I've figured out how to construct the wall so that it takes one less bunker overall, so I can put that bunker next to my command center if need be. I actually don't need very many marines to cover the wall at all - I just need to be ready to repair with a handful of scvs if need be. I wish you guys were on the NA server so we could practice a lot of this | ||
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BC.KoRn
Canada567 Posts
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snazbaz
40 Posts
1) First game, didn't have the timings at all right so executed it badly. 2) Banshees Here's a replay of the banshee loss, better zealot micro and warping in stalkers faster in the top right base probably would have won this (lesson for next time). ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-169147.jpg) And here's two of the wins: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-169146.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-169148.jpg) | ||
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Geiko
France1942 Posts
Also, don't really get what the zerg is doing... He has like 18 zerglings ready to push with you instead of 24, and when he has a chance to use them and kill the terran army in the open, he prefers to continue attacking supply depots and basicaly loses all his zergling to 1 marauder and 3 marines ? The game also lasts 5 minutes more, in that time he builds something like 10 zerglings, and at the final terran push, when he has 10 larva, he builds ... 10 drones :D (also, whats up with leaving drones in gas and not getting anything costing gas ?) Your zealot micro was fine, and pretty good decision making as well, you did some decent damage. Overall, 1v2 i think you were pretty good i just think you guys need to work on the zerg BO. If you don't want to use mine its fine but i think we can all agree that yours needs some fine tuning ! | ||
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snazbaz
40 Posts
The real beauty I think of this strategy at the moment is that almost every time I warp in some zealots in the first base, both entire enemy armies are sent there immediately leaving the second base open for 1 or 2 lone zealots to be warped into the mineral line. This may change with time as this build becomes a 'standard' that people check for and respond more correctly. Just keeping the opponents armies moving between each base while preventing most of the mining wears most people out after 2-3 minutes even if I'm losing lots of zealots ineffeciently because they aren't all in one base. | ||
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Vaped
United States5 Posts
"omfg, you will never get better cheesing.. blah blah blah" (responses like this are worth doing this build hahaha) Honestly, this build also sets you up for a good midgame if you prepare yourself that far. It has definitely become my standard opening with an easy transition into roach/hydra + stalkers/ht/sentry or dt if you wanna still be sneaky =] | ||
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Nisani201
United States1400 Posts
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Geiko
France1942 Posts
If you are still losing then, send me the replay | ||
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Somi
Pakistan123 Posts
On November 27 2010 15:33 Sinani201 wrote: I just tried this strat with my friend. I attacked them and then got destroyed by about 10 roaches. We lost. Did I do something wrong? You attacked ~30-60 seconds late :/. | ||
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