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There is a slightly different version of this that originated on korean servers, its 3 warpgates quick 5 stalkers, then you put down a pylon that would have range behind the terrans wall where you warp in two zealots and a stalker.
Its good if you know he is going some sort of fast tech. I beat fenix with it in the last TLopen because he was going fast tech.
But its very situational and very hard to execute, if you screw up the build and are late you will just get stomped by stim. Wouldnt really reccomend learning the build in the long run.
Edit: With regards to the OP build, how does this utilise our macro mechanics? The reason the roach rushes are any good is because its when the first extra larvae hits that give you an edge. Our edge in macroing is the warpgate cooldown, this build sacrifices so much econ and shows tiny benefit from it. Stop thinking in the super short term.
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Yeah, 5 stalkers seems like it would be great against a FE build, however, no zerg will go FE when they see the 9 gate, so i don't see this build working at the higher level of play (Gold-Diamond) unless your opponent really fails at scouting
HOWEVER there might be a way to make it work
If you put that gate somewhere that wouldnt be scouted (like proxy) along with the core and then built an extra pylon in the main with that gate on 12, it would LOOK like a 14 gate (usually indictive of a econ build), however, the moment that first stalker pops the opponent knows there would be a hidden cyber core so he would immediately suspect something. I will have to test out the timings and the build to see how much of a delay this would cause. This could really punish a FE build.
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Right when that build order optimizer came out I tried this build as well at the 1700 diamond level and it was easily crushed by a decent scouting terran. It did work a bit better vs protoss and zerg but vs Terran it isn't too good. I'm sure it will win you some games but I have the feeling it won't work vs decent scouting people
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This is my new favourite build.
I only tried it once in 1v1. I absolutely raped my z practice partner with this build. I was able to kill about 30 lings and 2 queens without losing a single stalker. My friend was left really confused.
After that I decided to bring this build to some team games. I played a lot of 4v4 and a few 3v3 and this build is fantastic. Having 2-3 players do this build at the same time is just ridiculous. We raped so many noobs on the ladder. Most of my team plays random so we just had it set up so any toss players did this build, zergs would do the 7rr, and terran would do various different builds such as proxy rax or even fast expand. You just have so many units so fast there is nothing they can do about it.
I won a few games that were literally 2v4. Our allies never even got a chance to help out because 10 stalkers at 5 minutes rapes hard.
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Ok, i came up with a build order that i think can really punish a FE build based on this build on a 4 player map
[ using http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/ ]
9 Pylon
9 Gateway
10 Probe*
11 Assimilator > +3
13 Cybernetics Core
15 Pylon
15 Gateway
16 Warpgate****
16 Stalker
19 Stalker [2]
23 Transform to Warpgate [2]
24 Pylon
26 Stalker [2]
First make the 9 pylon a proxy somewhere that can't be scouted. If it is scouted, you will lose. Proceed to build the gateway and core at the proxy locations. Then build the 15 pylon at your choke along with your gateway. You opponent hopefully will not scout until the gateway is done. This will look like a FE build or a high tech build or even a normal build. To really confuse them throw down a forge or a stargate and then cancel it once you kill the worker. To throw em off even more, make a stargate around 20 and then cancel it right in front of them. That will throw them for a huge loop. Continue the build as normal and show up with 5 stalkers around the 5:30 mark. You will have about 350 minerals and can choose to either build another gate and apply more pressure, or expand yourself as you already have 17 drones.
This is theoretical, but i'm going to try it tonight when i get home.
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ive got an extremely similar build to this.
its 10gate early core, how ever this build as ill admit to mine being, if your first push fails, it leaves you in such an aweful macro position its so easy to fall behind that its almost pointless you applied early pressure anyway.
This is designed to work against eco builds early game, not 4 gate or banshee's its designed to end the game in 7 minutes or less, its such an all in/failable push that if you lose the push you lose the game
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Russian Federation20 Posts
Sounds interesting. I'm looking for early pressure Protoss builds recently and this looks promising.
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On November 16 2010 02:05 Phrencys wrote:Your BO: 9 Pylon
9 Gateway
10 Probe*
11 Assimilator > +3
13 Cybernetics Core
15 Gateway
16 WarpGate****
16 Stalker
18 Pylon
19 Stalker[2]
24 Pylon
26 Transform to Warpgate[2]
26 Stalker[2] 5 Stalkers at the 4:57 mark # of probes: 17
Switch that to 5 Chrono Boosts on WarpGate, and the 5 Stalkers are completed at 4:51, according to the simulator.
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On November 16 2010 04:38 Hurkyl wrote:
Switch that to 5 Chrono Boosts on WarpGate, and the 5 Stalkers are completed at 4:51, according to the simulator.
Yeah, but you can do the same with the OP's BO.
5th chrono on warpgate research is always a waste IMO. More importantly, you'll want energy to CB your warp gates to speed-up reinforcements.
But yeah, it's possible. 
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Tried it; it's pretty solid. Beats Any FE strat pretty badly (as does any early rush type play), and beats slowlings and slowlots pretty well. Also not bad against T especially if you catch them with your 5 stalkers since in small numbers, stalkers>bio (less than 7-8 total units for bio.)
Tip: If you're going to try this against a terran player and they've got marauders, Focus fire those bastards and get them out of the way. Tossing in a zealot to help soak up some marine fire helps when your 2nd round of warp is ready.
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What would you say if I said I could get 6 zealots and 3 stalkers in 6 minutes? Haven't tried it in a real game so I'm not sure how it works out, but here is the build if anyone wants to test it.
9 pylon
14 gateway
14 gas
16 gateway
- 16 zealot
18 gateway
18 pylon
18 pylon (yes 2 pylons)
18 cybernetics core
- 18 zealot
- 22 zealot
- 24 stalker
- 26 zealot
- 28 stalker
- 30 stalker
- 32 zealot
Edit: (By checking it I mean try it in a real game to see if it works vs timings etc. Even though this is an obviously risky build as the gateways come late and units come really late so you are vulnerable to any early pressure. Probably best used vs. a scouted fast expanding zerg.)
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On November 16 2010 06:55 ApBuLLet wrote:
What would you say if I said I could get 5 zealots and 3 stalkers in 6 minutes? Haven't tried it in a real game so I'm not sure how it works out, but here is the build if anyone wants to test it.
9 pylon
14 gateway
14 gas
16 gateway
- 16 zealot
18 gateway
18 pylon
18 pylon (yes 2 pylons)
18 cybernetics core
- 18 zealot
- 22 zealot
- 24 stalker
- 26 zealot
- 28 stalker
- 30 stalker
- 32 zealot
Edit: (By checking it I mean try it in a real game to see if it works vs timings etc. Even though this is an obviously risky build as the gateways come late and units come really late so you are vulnerable to any early pressure. Probably best used vs. a scouted fast expanding zerg.)
Personally would take 5 stalkers at 5 minutes over 5 Zealots+3 stalkers at 6; the earlier you hit your opponent, the less cycles of units they can get in. I see this working vs a FE zerg as you've mentioned, and as any rush type build punishes a fast expand, period.
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On November 16 2010 07:00 tetramaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 06:55 ApBuLLet wrote:
What would you say if I said I could get 5 zealots and 3 stalkers in 6 minutes? Haven't tried it in a real game so I'm not sure how it works out, but here is the build if anyone wants to test it.
9 pylon
14 gateway
14 gas
16 gateway
- 16 zealot
18 gateway
18 pylon
18 pylon (yes 2 pylons)
18 cybernetics core
- 18 zealot
- 22 zealot
- 24 stalker
- 26 zealot
- 28 stalker
- 30 stalker
- 32 zealot
Edit: (By checking it I mean try it in a real game to see if it works vs timings etc. Even though this is an obviously risky build as the gateways come late and units come really late so you are vulnerable to any early pressure. Probably best used vs. a scouted fast expanding zerg.) Personally would take 5 stalkers at 5 minutes over 5 Zealots+3 stalkers at 6; the earlier you hit your opponent, the less cycles of units they can get in. I see this working vs a FE zerg as you've mentioned, and as any rush type build punishes a fast expand, period.
Yeah that is true, and I actually mistyped it, it is 6 zealots not 5, but in either case your point still stands. The extra zealots may make this rush more viable vs terran because it somewhat negates the marauders (without concussive), but still a decent scouting player should be able to adapt well enough to crush the push when it comes.
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i got this after running the program for 20 minutes with the condition of 5 stalkers and 25 probes and no warpgate technology
+ Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 10S - Build Probe
0:19.00: 73M 0G 10E 7/ 10S - Build Probe
0:36.00: 106M 0G 19E 8/ 10S - Build Probe
0:44.10: 100M 0G 24E 9/ 10S - Build Pylon
0:54.19: 50M 0G 29E 9/ 10S - Build Probe
1:11.19: 107M 0G 39E 10/ 18S - Build Probe
1:11.19: 57M 0G 39E 11/ 18S - Chrono Nexus
1:22.52: 136M 0G 20E 11/ 18S - Build Probe
1:30.83: 150M 0G 25E 12/ 18S - Build Gateway
1:37.80: 50M 0G 29E 12/ 18S - Build Probe
1:46.79: 75M 0G 34E 13/ 18S - Build Assimilator
1:54.80: 66M 0G 38E 13/ 18S - Build Probe
2:11.80: 172M 0G 48E 14/ 18S - Build Probe
2:16.79: 170M 0G 51E 15/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas
2:16.79: 170M 0G 51E 15/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas
2:28.80: 273M 17G 58E 15/ 18S - Build Probe
2:35.83: 287M 27G 62E 16/ 18S - Build Cybernetics Core
2:37.35: 150M 29G 62E 16/ 18S - Build Gateway
2:37.35: 0M 29G 62E 16/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas
2:45.80: 60M 45G 67E 16/ 18S - Build Probe
2:55.80: 100M 64G 73E 17/ 18S - Build Pylon
3:02.80: 60M 77G 77E 17/ 18S - Build Probe
3:20.80: 185M 111G 87E 18/ 26S - Build Probe
3:25.83: 188M 121G 90E 19/ 26S - Build Stalker
3:37.80: 189M 94G 96E 21/ 26S - Build Probe
3:37.80: 139M 94G 96E 22/ 26S - Chrono Nexus
3:37.80: 139M 94G 71E 22/ 26S - Build Pylon
3:46.09: 125M 109G 76E 22/ 26S - Build Stalker
3:50.65: 50M 68G 79E 24/ 26S - Build Probe
4:04.08: 156M 94G 86E 25/ 34S - Build Probe
4:07.83: 150M 101G 88E 26/ 34S - Build Stalker
4:07.83: 25M 51G 88E 28/ 34S - Chrono Gateway
4:21.08: 184M 76G 71E 28/ 34S - Build Probe
4:28.09: 220M 89G 75E 29/ 34S - Build Stalker
4:28.50: 100M 40G 75E 31/ 34S - Build Pylon
4:39.83: 136M 61G 81E 31/ 34S - Build Stalker
4:39.83: 11M 11G 81E 33/ 34S - Chrono Gateway
4:42.84: 50M 17G 58E 33/ 34S - Build Probe
4:42.84: 0M 17G 58E 34/ 34S - Chrono Nexus
4:54.18: 145M 39G 39E 34/ 42S - Build Probe
4:54.18: 95M 39G 39E 35/ 42S - Chrono Gateway
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
5:07.83: 272M 65G 22E 35/ 42S
Buildings: 1 Nexus 1 Assimilator 4 Pylon 2 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core
Units: 25 Probe 5 Stalker
Upgrades:
It comes slightly later but its less all in
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On November 16 2010 06:49 tetramaster wrote:
Tried it; it's pretty solid. Beats Any FE strat pretty badly (as does any early rush type play), and beats slowlings and slowlots pretty well. Also not bad against T especially if you catch them with your 5 stalkers since in small numbers, stalkers>bio (less than 7-8 total units for bio.)
Tip: If you're going to try this against a terran player and they've got marauders, Focus fire those bastards and get them out of the way. Tossing in a zealot to help soak up some marine fire helps when your 2nd round of warp is ready.
You cant really play this vs good terrans... they just get 1-2 bunkers when they scout your base.
No chance to win in your first push and you are behind in eco.
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On November 16 2010 07:25 Gecko wrote:i got this after running the program for 20 minutes with the condition of 5 stalkers and 25 probes and no warpgate technology + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 10S - Build Probe
0:19.00: 73M 0G 10E 7/ 10S - Build Probe
0:36.00: 106M 0G 19E 8/ 10S - Build Probe
0:44.10: 100M 0G 24E 9/ 10S - Build Pylon
0:54.19: 50M 0G 29E 9/ 10S - Build Probe
1:11.19: 107M 0G 39E 10/ 18S - Build Probe
1:11.19: 57M 0G 39E 11/ 18S - Chrono Nexus
1:22.52: 136M 0G 20E 11/ 18S - Build Probe
1:30.83: 150M 0G 25E 12/ 18S - Build Gateway
1:37.80: 50M 0G 29E 12/ 18S - Build Probe
1:46.79: 75M 0G 34E 13/ 18S - Build Assimilator
1:54.80: 66M 0G 38E 13/ 18S - Build Probe
2:11.80: 172M 0G 48E 14/ 18S - Build Probe
2:16.79: 170M 0G 51E 15/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas
2:16.79: 170M 0G 51E 15/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas
2:28.80: 273M 17G 58E 15/ 18S - Build Probe
2:35.83: 287M 27G 62E 16/ 18S - Build Cybernetics Core
2:37.35: 150M 29G 62E 16/ 18S - Build Gateway
2:37.35: 0M 29G 62E 16/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas
2:45.80: 60M 45G 67E 16/ 18S - Build Probe
2:55.80: 100M 64G 73E 17/ 18S - Build Pylon
3:02.80: 60M 77G 77E 17/ 18S - Build Probe
3:20.80: 185M 111G 87E 18/ 26S - Build Probe
3:25.83: 188M 121G 90E 19/ 26S - Build Stalker
3:37.80: 189M 94G 96E 21/ 26S - Build Probe
3:37.80: 139M 94G 96E 22/ 26S - Chrono Nexus
3:37.80: 139M 94G 71E 22/ 26S - Build Pylon
3:46.09: 125M 109G 76E 22/ 26S - Build Stalker
3:50.65: 50M 68G 79E 24/ 26S - Build Probe
4:04.08: 156M 94G 86E 25/ 34S - Build Probe
4:07.83: 150M 101G 88E 26/ 34S - Build Stalker
4:07.83: 25M 51G 88E 28/ 34S - Chrono Gateway
4:21.08: 184M 76G 71E 28/ 34S - Build Probe
4:28.09: 220M 89G 75E 29/ 34S - Build Stalker
4:28.50: 100M 40G 75E 31/ 34S - Build Pylon
4:39.83: 136M 61G 81E 31/ 34S - Build Stalker
4:39.83: 11M 11G 81E 33/ 34S - Chrono Gateway
4:42.84: 50M 17G 58E 33/ 34S - Build Probe
4:42.84: 0M 17G 58E 34/ 34S - Chrono Nexus
4:54.18: 145M 39G 39E 34/ 42S - Build Probe
4:54.18: 95M 39G 39E 35/ 42S - Chrono Gateway
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
5:07.83: 272M 65G 22E 35/ 42S
Buildings: 1 Nexus 1 Assimilator 4 Pylon 2 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core
Units: 25 Probe 5 Stalker
Upgrades: It comes slightly later but its less all in
you really are gonna want warpgate tech in there to reinforce.
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after running through it on yabot once or twice last night and viewing some of my other replays. The difference between the push being at their door at 5 minutes and being there at 5:30 is night and day. If you arent there at 5 minutes ready to go, dont bother. If you are, then it might be along the same lines as a 7RR in effectiveness, maybe slightly more effective.
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I was watching some high level euro games today (tarson vs white-ra) and noticed, that like many players, tarson opted not to scout at all. That might be an artifact of playing against white-ra a lot, and knowing his play style, but I have seen other terrans opt out of SCV scouting.
Tarson was going a banshee/tank build, that at 5 minutes had him with about 5 marines and a bunch of tech buildings just starting to kick into production.
I think at high levels, this 5stalker rush could hurt greedy terrans who don't scout, although low-mid diamond, most terran players are probably SCV scouting.
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On November 16 2010 07:52 AWESOME1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 06:49 tetramaster wrote:
Tried it; it's pretty solid. Beats Any FE strat pretty badly (as does any early rush type play), and beats slowlings and slowlots pretty well. Also not bad against T especially if you catch them with your 5 stalkers since in small numbers, stalkers>bio (less than 7-8 total units for bio.)
Tip: If you're going to try this against a terran player and they've got marauders, Focus fire those bastards and get them out of the way. Tossing in a zealot to help soak up some marine fire helps when your 2nd round of warp is ready. You cant really play this vs good terrans... they just get 1-2 bunkers when they scout your base. No chance to win in your first push and you are behind in eco.
I caught the T player in the middle of dropping bunkers; killed the building SCV and dropped the first wave of opponent units (granted, VERY risky against a T player that isn't going FE, near suicide unless they're doing 1/1/1.
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EPT
