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GaliX
Germany380 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-168721.jpg) pvp at about 2000 points diam. close but worked well... the key is to not lose more than a few stalker why making damage. and i have to agree with Mysterymeat, its even hard to make it if the zerg does 15 hatch, when the zerg has wicked micro skills => its simply gg for the protoss terra can only be beaten if he hasn't got any wallin... or even no bunker. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
It MIGHT be viable against Protoss, but both T and Z have very hard counters to an army w/o Zealots/Sentries. | ||
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painprophet
Romania33 Posts
On November 25 2010 16:29 Mysterymeat wrote: Just thought id mention the only reason you won that game is because the zerg had terrible micro and the zerg forgot to put his drones back on minerals when he killed your stalkers, realized he had no money, and left. Only a viable strat if they go 14/15 hatch. In my opinion it is a guarantied win if zerg goes 14/15 hatch and you opened with any build that allows you to get 5 stalker at his door steppes at around 5:30. I honestly don't see what zerg can do to defend, the speed upgrade will be finished way too late. I am surprised to see so many zergs going 14 hatch at GSL without being punished by protosses. | ||
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tetramaster
Canada253 Posts
On November 25 2010 23:12 Stratos_speAr wrote: I really feel like against any decent player, this is 100% cheese - would never work if properly scouted. It MIGHT be viable against Protoss, but both T and Z have very hard counters to an army w/o Zealots/Sentries. The timing works out such that the following is true when you hit at 5:10-5:25 vs TERRAN -If going for banshee or thors, will likely have started/have a bunker. In this case, back off and get a stargate/robo depending on how you want to proceed. If no bunker is present and marine count is less than 2x your stalker count, push the attack and add a zealot+stalker or 2 stalkers on next warp in. Minimize your stalker losses and micro the hurt ones back and force the marines that target fire to come closer to the rest of your stalkers. -If bioball is present, marauder count is LESS than 3 (2 marauder, 2-3 marines) Push. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, that marauders "destroy" stalkers, but by god, if you're hitting at this point, you won't have to contend with Stim. FOCUS DOWN MARAUDERS, MARINES, TECH LABS , SUPPLY DEPOTS, REACTORS. In that order. Once the enemy forces are either in rout or destroyed, kill off the tech labs to prevent any more marauders from being produced and kill off what you can (if they've bunkered close to their min line to prevent you from pushing further. -If bioball + bunker is present Back off. Proceed to expand, add sentries and zealots when possible and treat as a 2 gateway expand. vs ZERG Dependent on what you scouted at the start. Early gas+pool indicates speedlings or roaches. -For 1 basing Zerg (har har) -If speedlings (pool is in action, if you can spot it, that's good) You have a VERY narrow timing, where you want to attempt to force as many zerglings out on the field as possible. If you must, sacrifice one stalker at the front to watch when speed kicks in. When it does, fall back and warp in zealots for the next few rounds. Proceed to expand if viable on map, and if not, go for sentry/zealot heavy mix to complement your living stalkers. -If roaches 5 stalkers vs 6-7 roaches is a no contest of the stalkers as long as you don't just A-move into the roaches. Stop and shoot, micro the hurt ones away from the front, and you'll win as long as you aren't forced into a corner. -For 2 basing, roughly the same, although they may be caught off-guard and over-drone if you hide your stalkers until you push. Do NOT attempt this build on maps with narrow chokes though, as 2-3 spines will easily defuse the push on maps like Lost Temple. On a map like Metal or Xel-naga, with the wide open natural, you can dance around the spines and go for drone/queen kills if possible. Responses vary, though the key thing for defending this is -SCOUT if your scout finds this build in action, throw down a bunker/2-3 spines and proceed to beat them in the macro game. If you're a protoss player, if you scout it, send 2-3 zealots early to delay the push (stalkers in base will need to micro to stay alive and kill zealots), or cause econ damage (no mining time or destroyed probes). | ||
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vladonof
Romania15 Posts
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
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Kudo
United States31 Posts
This is one of the reasons why I have started to wall again. I can deal with voids usually. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
I will not be posting the two losses using the build because they were due to me foolishly trying it out before practising it in YABOT, so I was concentrating too much on the build and not enough on the game, and the build was much slower too. These ones I think are pretty solidly timed, with some small mistakes (I know in the Terran game the assimilator went down slightly late and so I didn't quite have 100 gas as the core finished.) http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=178479 PvT http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=178481 PvP http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=178482 PvP | ||
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Tsabo
Russian Federation266 Posts
On January 05 2011 19:54 Dhalphir wrote: I know how much we all love replays as evidence for builds, rather than just theorycraft, so here's three games of me in ladder matches executing this build. I will not be posting the two losses using the build because they were due to me foolishly trying it out before practising it in YABOT, so I was concentrating too much on the build and not enough on the game, and the build was much slower too. These ones I think are pretty solidly timed, with some small mistakes (I know in the Terran game the assimilator went down slightly late and so I didn't quite have 100 gas as the core finished.) http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=178479 PvT http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=178481 PvP http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=178482 PvP Hey. I only wached the first reply, but thats quite a standard 4 gate. The idea behind the build in this thread is that your 5 stalkers are supposed to be out allmost a full minute faster, sacrificing economy and production capability. | ||
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GT
Korea (South)141 Posts
On November 15 2010 10:05 Dudemeister wrote: I totally agree, thats why I need your help to refine this  no amount of refinement is going to make this work if it gets scouted. if it gets scouted theyll cut workers, etc, kill it with their economy and the games over. | ||
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ForTheDr3am
842 Posts
9 Chrono 10 Pylon 10 Gateway -> scout -> 1 chrono on nexus 13 gas 15 core 16 pylon stalker + wg when core finishes, continuously chronoboost wg research stop probe production at 20 (18 probes) 2 Gateways stalker proxy pylon, resume probe production I know the chrono on 9 looks awkward, but from my tests it has worked out better than chronoing later. Mainly a pvp build, hits before conventional 4gates with same economy but 1 gate less. So even if you don't kill him on the spot, you will be ahead if you cause damage while still building probes. | ||
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Tsabo
Russian Federation266 Posts
I'm quite sure that as long as you skip the second stalker for another warpgate you get 5 stalkers at the same time with an extra gateway =) | ||
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
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ForTheDr3am
842 Posts
On January 06 2011 07:06 Tsabo wrote: ForTheDr3am, I'm quite sure that as long as you skip the second stalker for another warpgate you get 5 stalkers at the same time with an extra gateway =) Not really, as the second Stalker comes substantially after the 2 gateways. I'd have to cut 2 or 3 more probes to get the 4th gate done in time for warpgate at 5:10, which is a lot more allin and has less reinforcement potential. If you macro perfectly out of three gates it swallows all your ressources anyways. | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
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divinesage
Singapore649 Posts
On January 06 2011 03:51 ForTheDr3am wrote: I have been playing around with a version that hits around 5:15 - 5:25, with 3 Gateways and a bit more eco. Works like this. 9 Chrono 10 Pylon 10 Gateway -> scout -> 1 chrono on nexus 13 gas 15 core 16 pylon stalker + wg when core finishes, continuously chronoboost wg research stop probe production at 20 (18 probes) 2 Gateways stalker proxy pylon, resume probe production I know the chrono on 9 looks awkward, but from my tests it has worked out better than chronoing later. Mainly a pvp build, hits before conventional 4gates with same economy but 1 gate less. So even if you don't kill him on the spot, you will be ahead if you cause damage while still building probes. I have a slight variation with your build, as yours seems to emphasize a later rush with more gates. 9 Chrono 10 Pylon 10 Gate > Scout > Chrono 12 Gas 14 Core (immediately once Gateway is done) > Chrono non-stop Warp Gate 14 Gate (cut probes temporarily) 14 Stalker Proxy pylon near opponent's base (If probe dies, Pylon at base and send out another probe) Second stalker once second Gate is done Third stalker once first stalker is out (Chrono this stalker once) Pylon at base Gateway 2nd Assimilator? This build ensures the timing is very close to the original timing. So you still get 5 stalkers to pressure the opponent, and also ensures that you're on 3 gates by the time you warp in your second/third wave of stalkers. Personally I feel that this rush should strike as soon as possible while your opponent has a low amount of units to contend with you. | ||
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Smurfz
United States327 Posts
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