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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On January 07 2013 09:11 Henk wrote:http://drop.sc/291924My ZvT lately has been going to shit. Now everyone's going mech, I feel like I am really playing like shit against bio-tank compositions. I uploaded a replay in which I feel like I just got outmacroed, which has alot to do with my third base being killed, but I just didn't have enough stuff to hold it. I know I've made (quite a few) mistakes in this game, but I feel like my entire way of approaching it is wrong altogether. If anyone could please take a look at it, and point out flaws in my game, I'd be most delighted. - I would also like some feedback on my 4 queen build order, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, and I'm not 100% sure when to take my third base. I'm behind in supply quite quickly (although that could be because he was pumping so many marines) but I feel like my entire BO is far from optimal. I usually have problems defending my 6:30-7:00 third against 6 hellions and a banshee, because I only have slow lings at that point. Thanks in advance! Edit: I'm EU diamond, and my opponent was also diamond.
As one of the above posters already mentioned, there is no reason for Quad gas at 5.30. Get 2 at 5.30 and the other two later unless you have a very specific build in mind.
Now what hurt you really badly was the Massive supply block between 7.13-8.17. At that point the Z economy should be exploding in workers and tech but you're actually even in workers at 8.17. Which is very bad in ZvT. The fact that the hellion/marine pressure actually managed to kill your third is a direct result of that. With proper macro you should have had double the amount of zerglings and enough Banelings to utterly crush the attack. When you lose your third against a Terran going for a 2/2 2base timing before the actual timing, then you're in a bad spot.
After retaking your third you're on even bases, behind in workers without even counting the mules. Terrans start attacking and never stops since he has no reason to. Without BL you can't fight a battle cost-effecitively so you need an economic advantage or hive tech (no hive started at 18mins with a ton of gas floating isn't good btw). Since you have none of the above he can simply overrun you.
So in a nutshell, take your 3rd & 4th gasses later, don't cripple your economy with supply blocks and you're in a much better spot.
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On January 08 2013 02:08 Najda wrote:
Anyone have a good all-in for ZvP? I hate that matchup so much I just want it to be over as soon as possible.
There is Stephano's classic 3 base roach all-in, but Protoss are pretty good at holding that off these days, depending on what rank you are, you can easily beat a lot of Protosses with this just by practicing macro, and micro(splitting is fun); you can also add in burrow and roach burrow movement. There are guides everywhere, and lots of variations. It also has the benefit of looking like standard play.
Someone already mentioned Zenio's baneling all-in, it's a good build.
If you want to find a bunch of great all-ins, I would consider taking a look at a lot of Leenock's play, he loves all-ins. One of his most notable is his 10 roach all-in.
I'm a huge fan of 8 pool against protoss, but it's less of an all-in and more of a way to take an early advantage.
Goodluck!
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On January 08 2013 02:49 bdubgnarkill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 02:35 Kraelog wrote:
We can't comment much without any actual replays...
How do I submit replays?
Go to your replay in the Starcraft interface, go to your replays, find the replay that you want to use. Right click on it, and from the drop down menu choose "Show in Folder" or something along those lines. Then upload your replay to a hosting website such as Google Drive and set the file(s) so anyone can download the it. Post the link to your file with your question.
Example:
I'm having trouble in ZvP, I don't really know what I am doing wrong, could someone give me some insight?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/164OVlhXnnQRNOylSoVi5cs6zz3t2TpLk1RQ0GX02Lo0/edit
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To upload replays, use drop.sc.
Very useful site.
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Hi ! Can you PPL give me safe openings to practice (im very newb) . Need ZvP , ZvZ and ZvT openings. Tnx in advance!
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On January 08 2013 03:53 ziigmund wrote:
Hi ! Can you PPL give me safe openings to practice (im very newb) . Need ZvP , ZvZ and ZvT openings. Tnx in advance!
Look at the link in the OP. I link this (It's bolded)
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On January 08 2013 02:55 HighLach wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 02:08 Najda wrote:
Anyone have a good all-in for ZvP? I hate that matchup so much I just want it to be over as soon as possible. There is Stephano's classic 3 base roach all-in, but Protoss are pretty good at holding that off these days, depending on what rank you are, you can easily beat a lot of Protosses with this just by practicing macro, and micro(splitting is fun); you can also add in burrow and roach burrow movement. There are guides everywhere, and lots of variations. It also has the benefit of looking like standard play. Someone already mentioned Zenio's baneling all-in, it's a good build. If you want to find a bunch of great all-ins, I would consider taking a look at a lot of Leenock's play, he loves all-ins. One of his most notable is his 10 roach all-in. I'm a huge fan of 8 pool against protoss, but it's less of an all-in and more of a way to take an early advantage. Goodluck!
I wouldn't suggest trying to all in protoss - there are no all ins that are reliable in ZvP nowadays. Any kind of all in from the zerg rely on protoss making a mistake WAY more than zerg coming out with sick micro/macro, ect.
Instead, I would suggest tackling 1 part of ZvP at a time.
Early: Are you getting a hatchery up (either at nat or third due to probe) on time?
Mid: Have you built 2 gasses at 6:00? Are you getting a lair/ling speed on time?
Later Mid: Have you scouted that your opponent has 3 bases? (If not, BUILD UNITS)
Late: Is your Broodlord/infestor/roach/corrupter army in a good position? Are you watching for warp prisms?
I suggest trying to improve, not practicing some random all in
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On January 08 2013 04:01 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 02:55 HighLach wrote:On January 08 2013 02:08 Najda wrote:
Anyone have a good all-in for ZvP? I hate that matchup so much I just want it to be over as soon as possible. There is Stephano's classic 3 base roach all-in, but Protoss are pretty good at holding that off these days, depending on what rank you are, you can easily beat a lot of Protosses with this just by practicing macro, and micro(splitting is fun); you can also add in burrow and roach burrow movement. There are guides everywhere, and lots of variations. It also has the benefit of looking like standard play. Someone already mentioned Zenio's baneling all-in, it's a good build. If you want to find a bunch of great all-ins, I would consider taking a look at a lot of Leenock's play, he loves all-ins. One of his most notable is his 10 roach all-in. I'm a huge fan of 8 pool against protoss, but it's less of an all-in and more of a way to take an early advantage. Goodluck! I wouldn't suggest trying to all in protoss - there are no all ins that are reliable in ZvP nowadays. Any kind of all in from the zerg rely on protoss making a mistake WAY more than zerg coming out with sick micro/macro, ect. Instead, I would suggest tackling 1 part of ZvP at a time. Early: Are you getting a hatchery up (either at nat or third due to probe) on time? Mid: Have you built 2 gasses at 6:00? Are you getting a lair/ling speed on time? Later Mid: Have you scouted that your opponent has 3 bases? (If not, BUILD UNITS) Late: Is your Broodlord/infestor/roach/corrupter army in a good position? Are you watching for warp prisms? I suggest trying to improve, not practicing some random all in
I definitely agree that trying to improve is better than practicing an all in, but in my case I despise brood/infestor lategame so I just want the game over before that. I hate turtle style plays, but thanks to the Zenio all in someone linked earlier I saw a daily that was on Zenio's muta style play so I'll try doing that instead of some sort of all in. I'm never going pro in sc2 so I just want to have fun while I play 
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On January 08 2013 04:01 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 02:55 HighLach wrote:On January 08 2013 02:08 Najda wrote:
Anyone have a good all-in for ZvP? I hate that matchup so much I just want it to be over as soon as possible. There is Stephano's classic 3 base roach all-in, but Protoss are pretty good at holding that off these days, depending on what rank you are, you can easily beat a lot of Protosses with this just by practicing macro, and micro(splitting is fun); you can also add in burrow and roach burrow movement. There are guides everywhere, and lots of variations. It also has the benefit of looking like standard play. Someone already mentioned Zenio's baneling all-in, it's a good build. If you want to find a bunch of great all-ins, I would consider taking a look at a lot of Leenock's play, he loves all-ins. One of his most notable is his 10 roach all-in. I'm a huge fan of 8 pool against protoss, but it's less of an all-in and more of a way to take an early advantage. Goodluck! I wouldn't suggest trying to all in protoss - there are no all ins that are reliable in ZvP nowadays. Any kind of all in from the zerg rely on protoss making a mistake WAY more than zerg coming out with sick micro/macro, ect. Instead, I would suggest tackling 1 part of ZvP at a time. Early: Are you getting a hatchery up (either at nat or third due to probe) on time? Mid: Have you built 2 gasses at 6:00? Are you getting a lair/ling speed on time? Later Mid: Have you scouted that your opponent has 3 bases? (If not, BUILD UNITS) Late: Is your Broodlord/infestor/roach/corrupter army in a good position? Are you watching for warp prisms? I suggest trying to improve, not practicing some random all in
Glon what do you think about 4 hatch 3 base roach+ling ~4 gas heavy drop aggression vs protoss. Right around the time theyll be going for their 3rd base using an imobile army of mostly sentry/immortals or 1 collosus would be when this hits. Just a regular no gas 3 hatch into 4th macro hatch opening with double upgrades of range+melee (or other if you prefer?). Going for a big early max when you're like 60-80 supply ahead of protoss just cuz of zerg being zerg. Doing a moderate drop in the main of 4-6 overlords, a small drop in his natural of 1 overlord then a big roach (and mainly ling reinforcement) ling attack at his 3rd base. Especially on maps like ohana wouldnt this be rather deadly?
I saw scarlett do it to either huk or leiyla but it worked very very well against a normally 3-4 gate sentry immortal 3rd expand.
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On January 08 2013 10:54 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 04:01 Glon wrote:On January 08 2013 02:55 HighLach wrote:On January 08 2013 02:08 Najda wrote:
Anyone have a good all-in for ZvP? I hate that matchup so much I just want it to be over as soon as possible. There is Stephano's classic 3 base roach all-in, but Protoss are pretty good at holding that off these days, depending on what rank you are, you can easily beat a lot of Protosses with this just by practicing macro, and micro(splitting is fun); you can also add in burrow and roach burrow movement. There are guides everywhere, and lots of variations. It also has the benefit of looking like standard play. Someone already mentioned Zenio's baneling all-in, it's a good build. If you want to find a bunch of great all-ins, I would consider taking a look at a lot of Leenock's play, he loves all-ins. One of his most notable is his 10 roach all-in. I'm a huge fan of 8 pool against protoss, but it's less of an all-in and more of a way to take an early advantage. Goodluck! I wouldn't suggest trying to all in protoss - there are no all ins that are reliable in ZvP nowadays. Any kind of all in from the zerg rely on protoss making a mistake WAY more than zerg coming out with sick micro/macro, ect. Instead, I would suggest tackling 1 part of ZvP at a time. Early: Are you getting a hatchery up (either at nat or third due to probe) on time? Mid: Have you built 2 gasses at 6:00? Are you getting a lair/ling speed on time? Later Mid: Have you scouted that your opponent has 3 bases? (If not, BUILD UNITS) Late: Is your Broodlord/infestor/roach/corrupter army in a good position? Are you watching for warp prisms? I suggest trying to improve, not practicing some random all in I definitely agree that trying to improve is better than practicing an all in, but in my case I despise brood/infestor lategame so I just want the game over before that. I hate turtle style plays, but thanks to the Zenio all in someone linked earlier I saw a daily that was on Zenio's muta style play so I'll try doing that instead of some sort of all in. I'm never going pro in sc2 so I just want to have fun while I play
Heh I don't blame you for not wanting to do turtle infestor/bl composition (this is the reason I stopped playing WoL and only hots now).
There are a few things you can do, it will not consistently work though just remember that.
You can try roach/hydra/corruptor timings (this is pretty much all inning to a point because it's hard to transition out of this composition).
Roach/ling attacks off of 2 base. Roach/infestor timings, the stephano 200/200 max roach attack.
You could try a muta/ling/bane timing possibly muta/roach timing.
I am mainly throwing out ideas that you can do so that you don't have to deal with turtle bl/corr/infestor. Just remember you will lose zvp a lot more this way since this does rely on the protoss not dealing with it correctly. But it is more fun to do these things then to turtle - get deathball and win.
If you do finally find out you can't stand not winning zvp to much due to not turtling try hots, zvp is a lot better over there  .
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Can someone point me to a thread/post that lays out a really solid muta/ling or muta/ling/bling build for ZvT? I've used the search function and I can't find much that's not super old. I'm just coming back after a long break and I'm just trying to get my mechanics up to scratch again and I don't want to spend a whole lot of time analyzing my replays to figure out little things to change and create my own build (and I don't want to use infestors at the moment, which is what most of the info on the strat section seems to be about).
Thanks
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On January 08 2013 14:39 Arisen wrote:
Can someone point me to a thread/post that lays out a really solid muta/ling or muta/ling/bling build for ZvT? I've used the search function and I can't find much that's not super old. I'm just coming back after a long break and I'm just trying to get my mechanics up to scratch again and I don't want to spend a whole lot of time analyzing my replays to figure out little things to change and create my own build (and I don't want to use infestors at the moment, which is what most of the info on the strat section seems to be about).
Thanks
Hm there aren't any guides really for it due to that style being pretty bad due to how well terrans fight it.
But if you insist on wanting to know (I honestly don't blame you at all muta/ling/bane is pretty fun to play with ).
I would do this:
15 hatch
16 pool
4 queens
1st gas after you start 3rd and 4'th queen
ling speed with 1st 100 gas
6 minutes get 2nd gas
6:30-6:45 get 3rd + 4'th gas and go lair
get baneling nest while going lair.
I would probably get a roach warren just encase he goes like 8+ hellions but that is completely optional and up to the player.
You should get 2 evo's and start 1/1 once you start mutas and get a third going. If you don't like that first style of mutas you could do this:
15 hatch
16 pool
4 queens
1st gas after you start 3rd + 4th queen
ling speed with 1st 100 gas
take a third at 5:30- 6 minutes
6:30-6:45 get 2nd
go lair at 7 - 7:30
get 3rd and 4th gas once you start lair
get 5'th and 6'th once lair is halfway or 3/4'ths the way done.
I would also probably get a roach warren but as said up there it's optional.
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On January 08 2013 15:16 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 14:39 Arisen wrote:
Can someone point me to a thread/post that lays out a really solid muta/ling or muta/ling/bling build for ZvT? I've used the search function and I can't find much that's not super old. I'm just coming back after a long break and I'm just trying to get my mechanics up to scratch again and I don't want to spend a whole lot of time analyzing my replays to figure out little things to change and create my own build (and I don't want to use infestors at the moment, which is what most of the info on the strat section seems to be about).
Thanks Hm there aren't any guides really for it due to that style being pretty bad due to how well terrans fight it. But if you insist on wanting to know (I honestly don't blame you at all muta/ling/bane is pretty fun to play with ). I would do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd and 4'th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas 6 minutes get 2nd gas 6:30-6:45 get 3rd + 4'th gas and go lair get baneling nest while going lair. I would probably get a roach warren just encase he goes like 8+ hellions but that is completely optional and up to the player. You should get 2 evo's and start 1/1 once you start mutas and get a third going. If you don't like that first style of mutas you could do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd + 4th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas take a third at 5:30- 6 minutes 6:30-6:45 get 2nd go lair at 7 - 7:30 get 3rd and 4th gas once you start lair get 5'th and 6'th once lair is halfway or 3/4'ths the way done. I would also probably get a roach warren but as said up there it's optional.
What's with the 4 queens and slow gas. When I played a lot the way things usually went were 15/15 with like 17 gas and a pretty fast followup with more gas for a super fast lair. Is this a development in how zergs normally play, is there a thread that covers the thought process of this style of opening?
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On January 08 2013 15:25 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 15:16 blade55555 wrote:On January 08 2013 14:39 Arisen wrote:
Can someone point me to a thread/post that lays out a really solid muta/ling or muta/ling/bling build for ZvT? I've used the search function and I can't find much that's not super old. I'm just coming back after a long break and I'm just trying to get my mechanics up to scratch again and I don't want to spend a whole lot of time analyzing my replays to figure out little things to change and create my own build (and I don't want to use infestors at the moment, which is what most of the info on the strat section seems to be about).
Thanks Hm there aren't any guides really for it due to that style being pretty bad due to how well terrans fight it. But if you insist on wanting to know (I honestly don't blame you at all muta/ling/bane is pretty fun to play with ). I would do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd and 4'th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas 6 minutes get 2nd gas 6:30-6:45 get 3rd + 4'th gas and go lair get baneling nest while going lair. I would probably get a roach warren just encase he goes like 8+ hellions but that is completely optional and up to the player. You should get 2 evo's and start 1/1 once you start mutas and get a third going. If you don't like that first style of mutas you could do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd + 4th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas take a third at 5:30- 6 minutes 6:30-6:45 get 2nd go lair at 7 - 7:30 get 3rd and 4th gas once you start lair get 5'th and 6'th once lair is halfway or 3/4'ths the way done. I would also probably get a roach warren but as said up there it's optional. What's with the 4 queens and slow gas. When I played a lot the way things usually went were 15/15 with like 17 gas and a pretty fast followup with more gas for a super fast lair. Is this a development in how zergs normally play, is there a thread that covers the thought process of this style of opening?
There is no thread really it's been since the queen buff. It's so that you can creep spread. 3rd/4'th are good at denying early hellions as well.
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On January 08 2013 15:48 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 15:25 Arisen wrote:On January 08 2013 15:16 blade55555 wrote:On January 08 2013 14:39 Arisen wrote:
Can someone point me to a thread/post that lays out a really solid muta/ling or muta/ling/bling build for ZvT? I've used the search function and I can't find much that's not super old. I'm just coming back after a long break and I'm just trying to get my mechanics up to scratch again and I don't want to spend a whole lot of time analyzing my replays to figure out little things to change and create my own build (and I don't want to use infestors at the moment, which is what most of the info on the strat section seems to be about).
Thanks Hm there aren't any guides really for it due to that style being pretty bad due to how well terrans fight it. But if you insist on wanting to know (I honestly don't blame you at all muta/ling/bane is pretty fun to play with ). I would do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd and 4'th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas 6 minutes get 2nd gas 6:30-6:45 get 3rd + 4'th gas and go lair get baneling nest while going lair. I would probably get a roach warren just encase he goes like 8+ hellions but that is completely optional and up to the player. You should get 2 evo's and start 1/1 once you start mutas and get a third going. If you don't like that first style of mutas you could do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd + 4th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas take a third at 5:30- 6 minutes 6:30-6:45 get 2nd go lair at 7 - 7:30 get 3rd and 4th gas once you start lair get 5'th and 6'th once lair is halfway or 3/4'ths the way done. I would also probably get a roach warren but as said up there it's optional. What's with the 4 queens and slow gas. When I played a lot the way things usually went were 15/15 with like 17 gas and a pretty fast followup with more gas for a super fast lair. Is this a development in how zergs normally play, is there a thread that covers the thought process of this style of opening? There is no thread really it's been since the queen buff. It's so that you can creep spread. 3rd/4'th are good at denying early hellions as well.
Hmm, I've been tryign this and it feels uncomfortable to delay gas for so long. I feel like I'm vulnerable to a lot of early game attacks with such slow speed. I'll have to upload a replay of a game when I get punished (I won the games I've played, but the terrans didn't attack forever and had bad macro) to see what I'm actually doing wrong.
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On January 08 2013 04:01 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 02:55 HighLach wrote:On January 08 2013 02:08 Najda wrote:
Anyone have a good all-in for ZvP? I hate that matchup so much I just want it to be over as soon as possible. There is Stephano's classic 3 base roach all-in, but Protoss are pretty good at holding that off these days, depending on what rank you are, you can easily beat a lot of Protosses with this just by practicing macro, and micro(splitting is fun); you can also add in burrow and roach burrow movement. There are guides everywhere, and lots of variations. It also has the benefit of looking like standard play. Someone already mentioned Zenio's baneling all-in, it's a good build. If you want to find a bunch of great all-ins, I would consider taking a look at a lot of Leenock's play, he loves all-ins. One of his most notable is his 10 roach all-in. I'm a huge fan of 8 pool against protoss, but it's less of an all-in and more of a way to take an early advantage. Goodluck! I wouldn't suggest trying to all in protoss - there are no all ins that are reliable in ZvP nowadays. Any kind of all in from the zerg rely on protoss making a mistake WAY more than zerg coming out with sick micro/macro, ect. Instead, I would suggest tackling 1 part of ZvP at a time. Early: Are you getting a hatchery up (either at nat or third due to probe) on time? Mid: Have you built 2 gasses at 6:00? Are you getting a lair/ling speed on time? Later Mid: Have you scouted that your opponent has 3 bases? (If not, BUILD UNITS) Late: Is your Broodlord/infestor/roach/corrupter army in a good position? Are you watching for warp prisms? I suggest trying to improve, not practicing some random all in
When I ask a person where to buy drugs, they don't want the answer, "Drugs are bad for you!"
GIVE THE MAN HIS ALL-INS!
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On January 08 2013 16:39 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 15:48 blade55555 wrote:On January 08 2013 15:25 Arisen wrote:On January 08 2013 15:16 blade55555 wrote:On January 08 2013 14:39 Arisen wrote:
Can someone point me to a thread/post that lays out a really solid muta/ling or muta/ling/bling build for ZvT? I've used the search function and I can't find much that's not super old. I'm just coming back after a long break and I'm just trying to get my mechanics up to scratch again and I don't want to spend a whole lot of time analyzing my replays to figure out little things to change and create my own build (and I don't want to use infestors at the moment, which is what most of the info on the strat section seems to be about).
Thanks Hm there aren't any guides really for it due to that style being pretty bad due to how well terrans fight it. But if you insist on wanting to know (I honestly don't blame you at all muta/ling/bane is pretty fun to play with ). I would do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd and 4'th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas 6 minutes get 2nd gas 6:30-6:45 get 3rd + 4'th gas and go lair get baneling nest while going lair. I would probably get a roach warren just encase he goes like 8+ hellions but that is completely optional and up to the player. You should get 2 evo's and start 1/1 once you start mutas and get a third going. If you don't like that first style of mutas you could do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd + 4th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas take a third at 5:30- 6 minutes 6:30-6:45 get 2nd go lair at 7 - 7:30 get 3rd and 4th gas once you start lair get 5'th and 6'th once lair is halfway or 3/4'ths the way done. I would also probably get a roach warren but as said up there it's optional. What's with the 4 queens and slow gas. When I played a lot the way things usually went were 15/15 with like 17 gas and a pretty fast followup with more gas for a super fast lair. Is this a development in how zergs normally play, is there a thread that covers the thought process of this style of opening? There is no thread really it's been since the queen buff. It's so that you can creep spread. 3rd/4'th are good at denying early hellions as well. Hmm, I've been tryign this and it feels uncomfortable to delay gas for so long. I feel like I'm vulnerable to a lot of early game attacks with such slow speed. I'll have to upload a replay of a game when I get punished (I won the games I've played, but the terrans didn't attack forever and had bad macro) to see what I'm actually doing wrong.
You aren't trust me. This is absolutely normal in todays zvt meta game. There are very few timings that can actually hurt you unless you aren't aware of the map at all.
You will notice 99.9% of the zergs are doing this.
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On January 08 2013 16:39 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 15:48 blade55555 wrote:On January 08 2013 15:25 Arisen wrote:On January 08 2013 15:16 blade55555 wrote:On January 08 2013 14:39 Arisen wrote:
Can someone point me to a thread/post that lays out a really solid muta/ling or muta/ling/bling build for ZvT? I've used the search function and I can't find much that's not super old. I'm just coming back after a long break and I'm just trying to get my mechanics up to scratch again and I don't want to spend a whole lot of time analyzing my replays to figure out little things to change and create my own build (and I don't want to use infestors at the moment, which is what most of the info on the strat section seems to be about).
Thanks Hm there aren't any guides really for it due to that style being pretty bad due to how well terrans fight it. But if you insist on wanting to know (I honestly don't blame you at all muta/ling/bane is pretty fun to play with ). I would do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd and 4'th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas 6 minutes get 2nd gas 6:30-6:45 get 3rd + 4'th gas and go lair get baneling nest while going lair. I would probably get a roach warren just encase he goes like 8+ hellions but that is completely optional and up to the player. You should get 2 evo's and start 1/1 once you start mutas and get a third going. If you don't like that first style of mutas you could do this: 15 hatch 16 pool 4 queens 1st gas after you start 3rd + 4th queen ling speed with 1st 100 gas take a third at 5:30- 6 minutes 6:30-6:45 get 2nd go lair at 7 - 7:30 get 3rd and 4th gas once you start lair get 5'th and 6'th once lair is halfway or 3/4'ths the way done. I would also probably get a roach warren but as said up there it's optional. What's with the 4 queens and slow gas. When I played a lot the way things usually went were 15/15 with like 17 gas and a pretty fast followup with more gas for a super fast lair. Is this a development in how zergs normally play, is there a thread that covers the thought process of this style of opening? There is no thread really it's been since the queen buff. It's so that you can creep spread. 3rd/4'th are good at denying early hellions as well. Hmm, I've been tryign this and it feels uncomfortable to delay gas for so long. I feel like I'm vulnerable to a lot of early game attacks with such slow speed. I'll have to upload a replay of a game when I get punished (I won the games I've played, but the terrans didn't attack forever and had bad macro) to see what I'm actually doing wrong.
4 queens owns early game attacks as they can transfuse themselves and the sunken colonies to delay for more lings. They also take care of banshees. They really are the complete package for the early game and there no need to get any other unit besides for scouting until they have combatshield/stim, You'll have time to build lings reactively.
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Ever since I started versing gold leaguers, i have struggled with ZvT, ZvT used to be my best matchup in silver and bronze because they would go MMM, however now in gold league they go mech and there;s this one timing attack that really gets me. It's a hellion thor +1/+1 timing attack rush. I get as many roaches as I can but they just beat me because of the thors and the hellions are used as meat shield. I can't get lings to overrun the thors due to the hellions. and they attack before I can even get a harrassable amount of mutas out. So how do I beat this shit?
and also I struggle at ZvZ alot too. I hate the matchup and in bronze I used 1 of 2 builds; Destiny's ZvZ build or Ling Flood. when i got silver those 2 builds just don't work anymore. and on a different game called chivalry medieval warfare a diamond zerg player told me that I can get to diamond in ZvZ by 10 pooling 6 drone rushing the act in this is where I 10 pool then with my first 6 lings I send 6 drones aswell...leaving 4 to continue mining. I've only had 3 ZvZs where the opponents didn't leave instantly so I won 2 of them and lost 1 of them..although it may be successful abit or most the time, I want a proper non-all-in ZvZ build. Usually I try drone up they mass roach and kill me, other times I mass roach they mass muta and fuck me. ZvZ is the worst matchup, worse than PvP and even worse than mother fucking TvT yeah i said it. thanks for any help
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First of all:some replays on drop.sc would help really much.
ZvT: You should always do the 4 queen opening vs terran. When you see him going mech, you should instantly build a third base. This is important because he can't really do any damage to you early on, when he attacks with like 6 hellions, 3 queens and a few lings should be fine defending this. You are have to add roaches if he attacks with more hellions. If you see the build you are talking about (I dont know the timing so I gonna just pretend he attacks after 13min, again, a replay would help...) you should try to get infestors, because they just wreck hellions with chain fungals. At the same time you should try to get as many roaches as possible and some spines at the ramp of your natural. Mutarlisks are generally not good vs mech, because you have to magicbox all the time because of the thors and this is not easy for somebody in a lower league. Since many silver players dont do this: You have to build a macro hatch, to prevent overmins.
ZvZ: Open 14 pool 17 hatch go ling/bane, do the cute little micro battles and then go roach/infestor. For the mutar thing exist 2 solutions:
1: You build roaches and just GO.
2. You build spores and queens and infestors (since fungal isnt a projectile in wol it should work out fine), you can also go hydra instead of infestors, which is easier to control.
You said you also get killed by mass roaches, which is a simple macro issue. If they have more roaches they just kill you. Depending on the timing you can possibly have some infestors out and just kill them. Positioning also plays a huge role, so if you can get him while he's moving up a ramp and get a concave, you can defeat him with smaller numbers of roaches, but generally this is just a macro problem, to which i can't give specific advices because, again, I have no replay.
If you have any further questions just ask.
EDIT:
Proof (like you need proof any proof to varify this...):
The roach Infestor vs zerg: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Roach/Infestor_(vs._Zerg) (it's NOT outdated, only because they reduced the range of fungal by one iot isnt that much worse, ESPECIALLY not vs terran.)
The ling/bane vs zerg is just obvious, your hardly gonna play ultralisk in the early game.
The roach/infestor vs the thor push is the only thing thinkable, because roaches are the only counter to hellions in the mid game and infestors are always good, they need no proof.
The 4 queen opening is being played by many progamers, just watch a stream to varify this.
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EPT
