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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On January 05 2013 10:30 chivs688 wrote:
In ZvT, I follow Glon's build which is:
The Basic Build
-15 hatchery
-16 spawning pool
-2 queens when pool finishes
-2 more queens (queen 3/4). Move initial 2 queens after inject to front of natural to begin creep spread (Queen 3/4 will be injecting)
-Take third immediately when minerals available (should be ~ when Queen 3/4 are at 50-75% complete)
-Take 2 gasses at same time as taking third (do not delay)
-Generally, players gas progression is: Ling Speed, 1/1, start lair (2 more gasses), lair finishes (last 2 gasses)
Basically what I'm finding hard is deciding when and which way to tech early on: roaches or banelings.
a) What am I looking for early on to tell whether he's going mech or bio early on?
b) What time should I be looking to put either one down?
I try to scout as often as possible and obviously once I see his units heading into the midgame I can tell, but it feels like I'm late then and should have known and reacted based on his gas/buildings/... , but at the moment I don't know what I'm really looking for.
Thanks.
Mech can be scouted by seeing multiple factories in his main, BFH, double armories, and obviously thors and stuff. I'm not 100% sure, but I think It's 8:30, or something around that (8-9). Sac your overlord to scout it. In any standard build, (and I am also using the 4 queen build) you will want to get a baneling nest right after starting speed, 1/1, and lair. It's really cheap and a must have. After you scout mech, just don't take baneling speed and you're good to go. When you scout mech, throw down your roach warren and decide if you're going to let +1 melee finish.
In general, and this is where I used to go wrong, make a couple of roaches (10, not more) to be safe from hellion runbies. Be sure you're not taking too much banshee damage either. then, DRONE HARD. To like, 80 drones on 4 bases. Mech can't push out soon anyway, making roaches early is wasteful. Then, pump roaches. if he's thorheavy you can try trading, if he's very tankheavy I recommend getting drops/overlord speed and dropping his main while attacking his third with a couple of units. Try to kill his production and try to trade efficiently. Be sure to keep up your macro during this or his counter push will kill you. Try to tech up to hive/GS during this. Get as many gases as you can (5th base, ofcourse) and tech to broodlords.
so a) sac overlord.
b)baneling nest right after spending gas on 1/1 lair speed, and roach warren when you scout mech.
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On January 05 2013 09:29 Mahtasooma wrote:
Imagine the following scenario: I opened with a midly fast pool, in any case, I get like 4-5 lings past his wall before he can wall off, the instant his cannon is going up. The cannon is protecting the ramp.
Is it better to go straight to the main, losing 2 lings in the process to the cannon? or is it better to have the lings sitting in his nat blocking his expo till he has 2 zealots out?
Absolutely go for the main. Try to deny his gas mining - 4 lings in his base can seriously delay a sentry immortal for a full 1 to 1:30 minutes. Don't forget to drone up behind it, or you're actually ending up behind by doing this!
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[On January 05 2013 09:38 Mavvie wrote:In the lategame I'd buy that, but I always fuck up the timing to get them. Basically I have 2 options: 1) Spine up the front to defend a push, or 2) Spine up my bases to not die to drops Protoss has 2 options: A) Push my front with a colossus/stalker or similar all in B) Use mass drop play with multiple warp prisms to secure bases and kill my economy/tech 1>A and 2>B, but 1<B and 2<A I feel like it's a coinflip...how do you scout the difference between a frontal all in push and mass drop macro play? Both get lots of colossi and stalkers and push your front (At least feign a push), but they both require opposite responses >_>
It obviously depends on what he's doing, but assuming "standard" play, you want to spine up your front first for that 3-base timing, and then ONCE YOU GET T3, spine up your bases to protect from drops.
This can obviously change if he's dropping before you get your BL's out, but you should be able to defend with your army at this point since you have a pretty mobile army (ling/roach/festor). The problem with drops is that when you finally hit T3 and are max'd on BL/festor, he will demolish your base before you can do anything because your army is fucking slow. Just have a good OL spread to spot for drops and react fast until T3; at T3 spine up your bases so you can go and fucking kill him with your main army.
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On January 05 2013 04:08 Henk wrote:
I'm pretty lost in lategame vs Mech. This is just a general question (so I didn't post a replay): How do you engage an army of sieged tanks/some thors and a few hellions with vikings above them with BL corruptor infestor? Vikings can just kite my units, and infestors can't get close enough or they'll get shredded by the tanks.. Help!
Don't forget an Ultra switch is also very nice. Whenever Terrans is soooo focused on hardcountering your BL army just trading & remaxing instantly on ultra/ling usually ends the game. I wouldn't get 1v1 corruptor/viking though.
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Nice nice nice :D A lot of stuff to answer to, I love it :D
On January 05 2013 09:13 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 04:32 Natalya wrote:On January 05 2013 04:08 Henk wrote:
I'm pretty lost in lategame vs Mech. This is just a general question (so I didn't post a replay): How do you engage an army of sieged tanks/some thors and a few hellions with vikings above them with BL corruptor infestor? Vikings can just kite my units, and infestors can't get close enough or they'll get shredded by the tanks.. Help! Have broodlords and corru in one control group. Spread them then a-move them. Have infestors in another group, fungal vikings (not thors/tanks/helions) when you can, that is if he unsiege his tanks. Have queens (few player use them, but they're uncredibly powerfull) in an other control group and transfuse corru/broods. If the vikings kite you corruptors, you're fine, as long as they play cat and mouse with your corruptors, they are not killing broodlords, so this little game is at your advantage. When viking kite, just pull your corruptors back to your broodlords and hit a couple transfuse on them. This will make vikings clump and come closer to your infestors, for easier fungals. Also, they'll be hit by queens. If the terran keeps tanks sieged, you can not fungal vikings/hardly can transfuse corruptors unless you're ok to lose some infestors/queens (it's ok to lose them if u're even or ahead). A few more tricks : If the terran does not unsiege his tanks, it probably means you dont have enough broodlords to force him to. 5 broodlords in your army is the minimum. 8 is better, more is luxury and you should invest in corruptors more than broodlords at that point (unless ofcourse the terran goes full thors with only few vikings). Depending on your league, your opponent will usually not focus fire your infestors. I think it wont happen unless you face good master players. What that means is that you can fungal as long as tanks have anything else than infestor to fire at. It can be infested terrans or broodlings. So make more broodlords or spam like 10 eggs and wait for them to become infested terrans before moving for the fungal, then keep spamming terrans and fungal or retreat if you're out of energy. Obviously you want to spread your eggs so they dont get one shoted. If you're low on gas, use a lot of queens (up to 8 maximum) and walk into tank fire while spamming transfuse each other while fungaling :D If you have any lings, runby into an expo or look to defend drops. They dont add that much in the fight since you already have broodlings and therefore they are more usefull elsewhere. Hope it helped Thanks a lot for the tips. I am facing masters terrans however, so they'll probably target fire my infestors. Bringing queens might help a lot though; it's something I've never done, but it might really help me to get to that next level of gaming. Howmany infestors would you say I need for a lategame vs mech terran/vikings at 200/200? I usually have around 10-15. I think I need to make more corruptors; I usually have something like a 1:1 ratio of corruptor to his vikings, sometimes even a bit less. Thing is though, I used to think fungals would nullify this, but if I have to 'chase' his vikings away with corruptors to get my broodlords to unsiege his tanks, I will need way more than I have right now. So basically with the queens; I have all my queens on hotkey 5 all game long. When I am going to engage, should I just put all '5' queens on 3, and make new queens at each hatchery I took them from?
Your ideal army composition at 200 would be 10 infestors max (you can get away with less), 8 broods, 6-8 queens, rest in corruptors (I think in late game sometimes i have 25+corru). +Maybe a handfull of lings if he showed a tendancy to drop. An important point i didnt point out is that i go double spire and get ahead in upgrades a lot of the time. Upgrade armor in priority, amor is really a big deal vs thors (remember, they shot 4 times, so ur armor is 4 times better) and marines. A 1:1 ratio vikings/corru is ok since you have fungals and transfuses.
What I do with queens hotkeys is as follows: I have queens for injects on hotkey 4, hatch on 5 and queens for creepspread on 6. When i know i dont need injects anymore because i'm on 6 hatcheries and i'm making broods/corru anyway and they are uncredibly expensive, i put all queens on 4, stop injecting and gather them under my broodlords. So I have control 1 ling, 2 infestors, 3 broods corru, 4 queens, 5 hatch. If you have too much minerals and not enough gas, make more queens, yeah, but stop at 8 maximum. THey'll get in the way of each other (they're slow off creep), and 8 queens will have enough energy anyway kinda.
On January 05 2013 09:38 Mavvie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 08:53 Natalya wrote:On January 05 2013 08:16 Mavvie wrote:
I am so stubborn with spore/spine...I guess I naturally play greedy and feel I can be fine without it. In the future I'll force myself to build at least 3 spines + overseer at each base, more at the outer ones.
I lost another game today to double warp prism DT-everywhere style, so annoying to play against. More spines I guess. Make it between 6 and 10 spines and at least 3 spores in your main base, and minimum 5 spines every other base  The thing is, the protoss is not supposed to kill you straight up, so you should not hesitate to spine up, especially when you reach max and start floating over 1k minerals. That way, he cant harass anymore and has to attack straight up, where he's supposed to lose. Before you start your wall of spine, it's not exagerated to go to 100 drones on 5 base while building infestor, spire and hive with your gas then spining up your 4rth, 5th with at least 5 spines and like 15 spines for your spine wall, so that you should get down to about 80 drones. The easiest way to do that is to overdrone your 4rth like a madman (like 40 drones on it) before taking gas and spining and to drone your 5th enough to have both gas + 5 spines. The thing with the overdroning is that you go on too much supply of drones so they can pay for themselves (they pay for the spine they'll become) and when u're maxed with a reasonable infestor ball and hive on the way, you go down on supply to get a bigger army and to sac those drones on spines. The result is that you can afford 3-4k minerals worth of static defense without being mineral starved and without going too low on drones. Good job, you're now turtled like a boss If your wall of spine finish before the protoss push and you didnt forget your corruptors, he cant break you. You should have around 10 infestors and as many corruptors as needed in case he has collossus. To achieve all of that in time, though, you cant waste time trying to kick the protoss 3rd and trading armies. You need to double expand and drone to death as soon as you see a 3rd nexus. Some players will try to kick the protoss 3rd (doable if he went stargate + robo before expand and you decided to go lings double upgrades). It's another style, lower on drones and higher on agression. With this style, you usually dont take an early 5th because you'll not be able to drone it in time In the lategame I'd buy that, but I always fuck up the timing to get them. Basically I have 2 options: 1) Spine up the front to defend a push, or 2) Spine up my bases to not die to drops Protoss has 2 options: A) Push my front with a colossus/stalker or similar all in B) Use mass drop play with multiple warp prisms to secure bases and kill my economy/tech 1>A and 2>B, but 1<B and 2<A I feel like it's a coinflip...how do you scout the difference between a frontal all in push and mass drop macro play? Both get lots of colossi and stalkers and push your front (At least feign a push), but they both require opposite responses >_>
I'd say, start by spining you 4rth/5th (on daybreak), make your spine wall, and start spining/making spores when you are getting closer to a maxed army of broodlords/festors. Because the problem is they're slow. Your control group of ling/roach should grow smaller and smaller as more food is tied in broods. When you feel it's too small to defend multiple drops, you should start spining/making crawler, because, well, you dont have the choice ;D
So if he uses the option B, well, at first just run your lings to kill his drop, then when they slowly die, remax on broods and make spines/spores to be sure you dont get overrun If he tries to bust your spine wall at the same time, you have to split your army, but fungal (u shouldnt be moving your infestors from the spine wall) + corru a lot of the time will be enough to hold if he's dropping at the same time.
Also, just thought of that. I've talked with some top master EU that told me basically you can defend your main base from drops with spores only (like 5 or so). They should make sure not a single warp prism can come into ur base. It's true that pros usually dont really spine their main, they rather defend with a bunch of corru/spores and eventually one infestor (fungal in range of spore = bye bye warp prism). They spread overlords like vs terran to make sure they catch warp prism coming on minimap. But i never felt safe enough to do so.
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Has anyone noticed a shift in the ZvP matchup? Since the new season began I've noticed a lot of Protoss have ditched the FFE immo AI in favor for a GFE with pressure to delay/hurt the third and a Stargate follow up.
Is this a trend or just coincidence?
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If i saw any shift in zvp it's in favor of stargate into robo into third, which lings double ups that's rapidly becoming standard just pwns. If the Z macro correctly, he has a decent shot at killing whole toss army and cancel the 3rd a couple times.
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On January 06 2013 04:46 Kraelog wrote:
Has anyone noticed a shift in the ZvP matchup? Since the new season began I've noticed a lot of Protoss have ditched the FFE immo AI in favor for a GFE with pressure to delay/hurt the third and a Stargate follow up.
Is this a trend or just coincidence?
I think this is coincidence. I haven't seen many zvp's that go GFE with pressure first. There are some toss players who only do this but a majority don't.
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http://drop.sc/291924
My ZvT lately has been going to shit. Now everyone's going mech, I feel like I am really playing like shit against bio-tank compositions. I uploaded a replay in which I feel like I just got outmacroed, which has alot to do with my third base being killed, but I just didn't have enough stuff to hold it. I know I've made (quite a few) mistakes in this game, but I feel like my entire way of approaching it is wrong altogether.
If anyone could please take a look at it, and point out flaws in my game, I'd be most delighted. - I would also like some feedback on my 4 queen build order, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, and I'm not 100% sure when to take my third base.
I'm behind in supply quite quickly (although that could be because he was pumping so many marines) but I feel like my entire BO is far from optimal. I usually have problems defending my 6:30-7:00 third against 6 hellions and a banshee, because I only have slow lings at that point.
Thanks in advance!
Edit: I'm EU diamond, and my opponent was also diamond.
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On January 07 2013 09:11 Henk wrote:http://drop.sc/291924My ZvT lately has been going to shit. Now everyone's going mech, I feel like I am really playing like shit against bio-tank compositions. I uploaded a replay in which I feel like I just got outmacroed, which has alot to do with my third base being killed, but I just didn't have enough stuff to hold it. I know I've made (quite a few) mistakes in this game, but I feel like my entire way of approaching it is wrong altogether. If anyone could please take a look at it, and point out flaws in my game, I'd be most delighted. - I would also like some feedback on my 4 queen build order, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, and I'm not 100% sure when to take my third base. I'm behind in supply quite quickly (although that could be because he was pumping so many marines) but I feel like my entire BO is far from optimal. I usually have problems defending my 6:30-7:00 third against 6 hellions and a banshee, because I only have slow lings at that point. Thanks in advance! Edit: I'm EU diamond, and my opponent was also diamond.
Hm not an expert on this opening but it looks to me that you take all 4 gases too early. This results in a poor mineral income and you falling behind in supply. When he comes with an attack at 10 min you got barely any minerals but 900 gas banked. Maybe you should try something like take 2 gases at 5:30, next 2 around 7-8 min? Also you can delay those evo chambers till 7 min (you gonna have enough gas for double upgs right when they finish). As for third base timing, I think its ok 6 min is optimal.
You should not have that many problems with defending your third, the 6 helions banshee comes way later than 6:30 (something around 8min?) so your speed will be close to finish, but just in case maybe it would be a good idea to wait with your drone tranfser to third until you have speed ready so you dont lose them to helions for free. Of course make sure you dont miss early injects (in that replay you already missed a whole cycle at 7 min) dont get supply blocks etc.
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Need help against Carrier/Storm in ZvP. Played against it a few times and just don't know what decision to make once I scout it. Played a ladder game today, scouted a double stargate opening, defended it very easily and knew I was ahead. Macroed up, spread my creep, all that good stuff. Get my first few Broodlords and go to attack his third. When I get there, he has 8 or so carriers with about 10 high templar and the voidrays from his initial failed attack. I immediately panic, knowing that my army of about 6 BL, 5 Corruptors, 8 or so infestors and some roaches cant really kill his army, especially with the cannons at his third. I just don't know what tech to go. He eventually rolled over me because he would just storm all my corruptors, which is what I knew would happen. Afterward i thought maybe somehow abuse the immobility of his army with nydus play or mutas or something? but players who use this style just mass up cannons so idk if that would work. I just get really frustrated by this style because i felt like i played well and still lost, whereas my opponent just A-moved and pushed T. any wisdom is appreciated.
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On January 07 2013 21:27 CurrrBell wrote:
Need help against Carrier/Storm in ZvP. Played against it a few times and just don't know what decision to make once I scout it. Played a ladder game today, scouted a double stargate opening, defended it very easily and knew I was ahead. Macroed up, spread my creep, all that good stuff. Get my first few Broodlords and go to attack his third. When I get there, he has 8 or so carriers with about 10 high templar and the voidrays from his initial failed attack. I immediately panic, knowing that my army of about 6 BL, 5 Corruptors, 8 or so infestors and some roaches cant really kill his army, especially with the cannons at his third. I just don't know what tech to go. He eventually rolled over me because he would just storm all my corruptors, which is what I knew would happen. Afterward i thought maybe somehow abuse the immobility of his army with nydus play or mutas or something? but players who use this style just mass up cannons so idk if that would work. I just get really frustrated by this style because i felt like i played well and still lost, whereas my opponent just A-moved and pushed T. any wisdom is appreciated.
Post the replay please.
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On January 07 2013 10:51 syriuszonito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 09:11 Henk wrote:http://drop.sc/291924My ZvT lately has been going to shit. Now everyone's going mech, I feel like I am really playing like shit against bio-tank compositions. I uploaded a replay in which I feel like I just got outmacroed, which has alot to do with my third base being killed, but I just didn't have enough stuff to hold it. I know I've made (quite a few) mistakes in this game, but I feel like my entire way of approaching it is wrong altogether. If anyone could please take a look at it, and point out flaws in my game, I'd be most delighted. - I would also like some feedback on my 4 queen build order, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, and I'm not 100% sure when to take my third base. I'm behind in supply quite quickly (although that could be because he was pumping so many marines) but I feel like my entire BO is far from optimal. I usually have problems defending my 6:30-7:00 third against 6 hellions and a banshee, because I only have slow lings at that point. Thanks in advance! Edit: I'm EU diamond, and my opponent was also diamond. Hm not an expert on this opening but it looks to me that you take all 4 gases too early. This results in a poor mineral income and you falling behind in supply. When he comes with an attack at 10 min you got barely any minerals but 900 gas banked. Maybe you should try something like take 2 gases at 5:30, next 2 around 7-8 min? Also you can delay those evo chambers till 7 min (you gonna have enough gas for double upgs right when they finish). As for third base timing, I think its ok 6 min is optimal. You should not have that many problems with defending your third, the 6 helions banshee comes way later than 6:30 (something around 8min?) so your speed will be close to finish, but just in case maybe it would be a good idea to wait with your drone tranfser to third until you have speed ready so you dont lose them to helions for free. Of course make sure you dont miss early injects (in that replay you already missed a whole cycle at 7 min) dont get supply blocks etc.
Thanks for the reply. Will taking 2 gases at 5:30 not delay my lair though? I feel like cloakshees can pick off my creep spreading queens so easily if I don't get an overseer quickly..
Does anybody else have any comments on my early game? I still feel like something is missing.
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On January 07 2013 21:48 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 10:51 syriuszonito wrote:On January 07 2013 09:11 Henk wrote:http://drop.sc/291924My ZvT lately has been going to shit. Now everyone's going mech, I feel like I am really playing like shit against bio-tank compositions. I uploaded a replay in which I feel like I just got outmacroed, which has alot to do with my third base being killed, but I just didn't have enough stuff to hold it. I know I've made (quite a few) mistakes in this game, but I feel like my entire way of approaching it is wrong altogether. If anyone could please take a look at it, and point out flaws in my game, I'd be most delighted. - I would also like some feedback on my 4 queen build order, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, and I'm not 100% sure when to take my third base. I'm behind in supply quite quickly (although that could be because he was pumping so many marines) but I feel like my entire BO is far from optimal. I usually have problems defending my 6:30-7:00 third against 6 hellions and a banshee, because I only have slow lings at that point. Thanks in advance! Edit: I'm EU diamond, and my opponent was also diamond. Hm not an expert on this opening but it looks to me that you take all 4 gases too early. This results in a poor mineral income and you falling behind in supply. When he comes with an attack at 10 min you got barely any minerals but 900 gas banked. Maybe you should try something like take 2 gases at 5:30, next 2 around 7-8 min? Also you can delay those evo chambers till 7 min (you gonna have enough gas for double upgs right when they finish). As for third base timing, I think its ok 6 min is optimal. You should not have that many problems with defending your third, the 6 helions banshee comes way later than 6:30 (something around 8min?) so your speed will be close to finish, but just in case maybe it would be a good idea to wait with your drone tranfser to third until you have speed ready so you dont lose them to helions for free. Of course make sure you dont miss early injects (in that replay you already missed a whole cycle at 7 min) dont get supply blocks etc. Thanks for the reply. Will taking 2 gases at 5:30 not delay my lair though? I feel like cloakshees can pick off my creep spreading queens so easily if I don't get an overseer quickly.. Does anybody else have any comments on my early game? I still feel like something is missing.
Didnt look the replay (sry, too lazy).
The way the Z opening works is as follows :
You go 15 hatch 16 pool always
You either go for 6 queens or 4 queens (I dont believe any pro goes for less than 4 queens early on)
BUT
The thing with 6 queens opening is that it can deal with any amount of hellions/banshee before you lingspeed is done even if you open gasless (more details coming)
The thing with 4 queens is that you either need a not too delayed speed (like hatch pool gas) or an early roach warren. Because 2 queens spreading creep are not going to cut it against too many helions/banshee.
Both builds (4 and 6 queens) can take an early third, that is, third before lair and before adding more gases. The 6 queen build i've been using for month works like this : 15 hatch 16 pool gasless, double queen and double queen again to go up to 4. Then as your minerals get high, make the 3rd (out of my head i think you take the 3rd when you've spent your first double inject worth of larva). Start the 5th queen (you cant keep going double queen production or your gasses will be too late) and more drones :D Once your 5th queen is started and you've spent one more double inject worth of drones, time to take all 4 gasses at once (cant give you any timer on that, I never worked with fixed numbers on the clock. Then make double evo, either roach warren or bane nest (to your preference really) and a spine crawler at your natural. Make a wall with all those structures. On every map, you can wall this such that a queen (the queen from your natural obviously) has time to walk and close the wall when you see helions running into your natural. Start ling speed then lair then double upgradse as gas is coming. This lets you have overseers for the earlier of the earlier banshee that would follow a fast expo. You still dont need any units since your 4 queens out on the field cant really die. If need be, go easy on new creep tumors to have one or two transfuses available. 2 queen making new tumors is enough for the crazier creep spread anyway. Those 4 queens can not only creepspread but chase helions and banshee out of the way. They cant run to your natural since you can wall at any time. Once your third is done, immediately start a spine in its mineral line and drone it. With this build, every time your double inject pop, you should be able to spend it to drones immediately. If it's not the case, you're either taking your third or your gasses too early.
Now one thing or two about when to make units. If you see helions banshee, you can drone right to 70 without units if you're positive he's not making more than 4-6 helions. If he is, make a handfull of lings or raoches and keep droning. You can be so greedy because every terran goes triple orbital into tech (starport) into upgrade. That means THEY HAVE NOTHING TO BUST UR FRONT BRO, SO KEEP DRONING. Now if you only see helions and no banshee coming, be more carefull, they could be preparing for a bio push of some sort. In that case, make like 10 drones in your third and then go all on units untill you're positive he will not attack or until u've crushed his push.
Now about 4 queens. The thing is, 4 queens cant deal by themselve with helions banshee, because it becomes too much for the 2 queens out on the field. Those 2 queens are meant to spread creep and keep helions away, but a banshee is too much for them. That's why you need earlier gas with this style, so that you can have speedlings to fight helions on creep and 2 queens to fight banshees. I'm writing this as an extra safety mesure. I believe some pros like Scarlett are sometimes going gasless 4 queens, but it's rather into lair tech (muta) than early third, and if there's banshee, they have to retreat their queens to the natural. You have to be carefull with this, because if you get trapped once out of position and you lose your 2 forward queens, things can get nasty real quick.
hope it helps
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On January 07 2013 21:48 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 10:51 syriuszonito wrote:On January 07 2013 09:11 Henk wrote:http://drop.sc/291924My ZvT lately has been going to shit. Now everyone's going mech, I feel like I am really playing like shit against bio-tank compositions. I uploaded a replay in which I feel like I just got outmacroed, which has alot to do with my third base being killed, but I just didn't have enough stuff to hold it. I know I've made (quite a few) mistakes in this game, but I feel like my entire way of approaching it is wrong altogether. If anyone could please take a look at it, and point out flaws in my game, I'd be most delighted. - I would also like some feedback on my 4 queen build order, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, and I'm not 100% sure when to take my third base. I'm behind in supply quite quickly (although that could be because he was pumping so many marines) but I feel like my entire BO is far from optimal. I usually have problems defending my 6:30-7:00 third against 6 hellions and a banshee, because I only have slow lings at that point. Thanks in advance! Edit: I'm EU diamond, and my opponent was also diamond. Hm not an expert on this opening but it looks to me that you take all 4 gases too early. This results in a poor mineral income and you falling behind in supply. When he comes with an attack at 10 min you got barely any minerals but 900 gas banked. Maybe you should try something like take 2 gases at 5:30, next 2 around 7-8 min? Also you can delay those evo chambers till 7 min (you gonna have enough gas for double upgs right when they finish). As for third base timing, I think its ok 6 min is optimal. You should not have that many problems with defending your third, the 6 helions banshee comes way later than 6:30 (something around 8min?) so your speed will be close to finish, but just in case maybe it would be a good idea to wait with your drone tranfser to third until you have speed ready so you dont lose them to helions for free. Of course make sure you dont miss early injects (in that replay you already missed a whole cycle at 7 min) dont get supply blocks etc. Thanks for the reply. Will taking 2 gases at 5:30 not delay my lair though? I feel like cloakshees can pick off my creep spreading queens so easily if I don't get an overseer quickly.. Does anybody else have any comments on my early game? I still feel like something is missing.
It will delay your lair a bit, its gonna be read at 9:20 while cloack is ready ~9:00 I believe. You can either sac an overlord to scout it or just put a blind spore(s) at 8:00 (like you did in your replay). If you do everything correctly you should be able to get 100+ supply at 10 min and easily defend any 2 base timings.
e: oh ye, if you drone scout I think you can skip those early 4 lings and make them 2 mins later
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I am having a few major problems late in games. In all my seasons, I am typically a Gold player (though I have gone plat a few times) and I always for some reason play NOTHING but Diamonds and Masters... and I am getting frustrated.
Vs Terran
I always seem to be on the recieving end of tank spamming late. Like after 10 min, they will have the MM with Vacs and 10-15 tanks in siege. I have NO idea how to counter it. I have gone muta to pick off the tanks, but the MM gets me. Other than that, all my ground units appear to be squishy when matching up against them. I have gone mixed units with Roaches and Speedling, or Banelings... but I just get blasted. I typically get two evolution chambers and start upgrading... but doesnt look like its helping much. Any tips on how to rally the MM+Tanks?
Vs Protoss
Stalker ball kills me. 10+ min, if they Stalker ball, I might as well GG. This is easily my biggest weakness. I know the counter to this is gonna be mass speedlings, but usually the ball is too big and I cant get enough speedling in there. I REALLY need some help on this one. What do I do against that?
Vs Zerg
I need a good way to snipe Infestors. I usually play Masters who go with 15 Infestors it looks like, and I gotta know how to take them out efficently.
I have alot of holes in my game, and need some serious help in order to advance my play, but these three things are my biggest weaknesses. I gotta know what to do.
Also, where can I watch your replays?
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Anyone have a good all-in for ZvP? I hate that matchup so much I just want it to be over as soon as possible.
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On January 08 2013 02:08 Najda wrote:
Anyone have a good all-in for ZvP? I hate that matchup so much I just want it to be over as soon as possible.
A really strong all-in in my opinion is the 3 hatch ling/baneling bust by Zenio, where you do the normal 3 hatch opening, get one gas at about 20 (don't show it to the probe), only build 1 queen, then drone up to 26 supply while getting metabolic boost and baneling nest and build mass zergling to bust him as soon as your baneling nest finishes.
I personally have a really high success rate with it, since it is very hard to scout. Protoss normally just assumes standard 3 base style and therefore the bust comes completely unexpected most of the time.
It's just very important to deny scouting. Send your queen to the natural to snipe the probe if it wants to go in and don't show him too many zerglings if possible.
Here is the complete guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331230
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On January 08 2013 01:55 bdubgnarkill wrote:
I am having a few major problems late in games. In all my seasons, I am typically a Gold player (though I have gone plat a few times) and I always for some reason play NOTHING but Diamonds and Masters... and I am getting frustrated.
Vs Terran
I always seem to be on the recieving end of tank spamming late. Like after 10 min, they will have the MM with Vacs and 10-15 tanks in siege. I have NO idea how to counter it. I have gone muta to pick off the tanks, but the MM gets me. Other than that, all my ground units appear to be squishy when matching up against them. I have gone mixed units with Roaches and Speedling, or Banelings... but I just get blasted. I typically get two evolution chambers and start upgrading... but doesnt look like its helping much. Any tips on how to rally the MM+Tanks?
Vs Protoss
Stalker ball kills me. 10+ min, if they Stalker ball, I might as well GG. This is easily my biggest weakness. I know the counter to this is gonna be mass speedlings, but usually the ball is too big and I cant get enough speedling in there. I REALLY need some help on this one. What do I do against that?
Vs Zerg
I need a good way to snipe Infestors. I usually play Masters who go with 15 Infestors it looks like, and I gotta know how to take them out efficently.
I have alot of holes in my game, and need some serious help in order to advance my play, but these three things are my biggest weaknesses. I gotta know what to do.
Also, where can I watch your replays?
We can't comment much without any actual replays...
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On January 08 2013 02:35 Kraelog wrote:
We can't comment much without any actual replays...
How do I submit replays?
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EPT
