The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 456

On January 04 2013 14:10 JackRipper wrote:
Question: For late game ZvP, what's the best way to deal with warp prism harass? Is there a timing to build spore/spines at every base against a 3 base toss? How many is enough and where should I put them?

On January 04 2013 08:10 Mavvie wrote:
No problem! Let me know when you see it and feel free to ask any questions.

I've got one:
Here is a standard ZvP of mine. Pretty much most of my games look like this (balance whine included!).
- I macro up and defend any early pressure
- I take a lead in the midgame because my opponents are bad
- I can't actually win the game because of defenders' advantage; I know this so I macro up and hope my broodlord push wins the game
- DTs ,warp prisms, a million zealots, and hidden bases fuck me over and I lose/it's a really close game where it should be a free win position

In these games where I defend a 3 base push, should I counterpush and try to kill my opponent with roach/ling/infestor?

Do I really need 5+ spines and overseers at every base? I tried keeping a roach hitsquad at home, but that didn't work. Un-micro'd DTs killed them all before overseers arrived

Is it worth chasing down warp prisms with corruptors, or should I use them in a push?

And I think I need to improve my chain fungals on stalkers, but that's an easy fix.

I know it's bad to upload replays where I win, but holy shit if this guy didn't do the weakest/dumbest 3 base all in I've ever seen, I think I would've been destroyed.

Thanks in advance!

On January 05 2013 04:08 Henk wrote:
I'm pretty lost in lategame vs Mech. This is just a general question (so I didn't post a replay): How do you engage an army of sieged tanks/some thors and a few hellions with vikings above them with BL corruptor infestor? Vikings can just kite my units, and infestors can't get close enough or they'll get shredded by the tanks.. Help!

On January 04 2013 06:17 Kraelog wrote:


I just watched both replays.

Why on earth are you using a ZvZ BO in ZvT? That's like hammering a nail through your foot right before you start a marathon. There is no need whatsoever for an early gas or a baneling nest. you need all the minerals to drone drone DRONE

A normal ZvT BO is:

15Hatch
17Pool
(drone scout if you're scared of 2rax)
Double Queen when Pool is ready.
Drone drone drone
Double Queen when the first two are ready.
Drone drone drone
Don't get supply blocked!

After that you can get 2evo chambers to simcity your natural.
If the T is going Bio place a baneling nest & expand.
If the T is going Mech place a roach warren & expand.
If you're not sure kick urself for not sending an OL or two in his base & place a baneling nest & Roach Warren & expand.

IF T is going Mech:

ZvT with Mech is in my opinion a battle on the one hand to not get your drones roasted and on the other hand to LIMIT the Terrans GAS!. All Mech units are very gas heavy so the T really need 6 or 8 gasses. Your goal should be to delay/deny that from happening as long as humanly possible. Whenever the T has 8-10 gasses like in the replays you posted, you should die.

So if you scouted Mech: Roach Tsunami

Basically start making Roaches (with upgrades) and don't ever stop. Use them to deny hellion harass, expand like mad (in both replays the T had more bases then you, then its almost impossible to win...) and use the waves of Roaches to deny his third and reset over and over his Tank/Thor count. If he's veeeery well defended with pure tank, research drop or go nydus and just pillage his main. Let the roaches in the main die & send another wave to his natural/third. Rinse/repeat.

In my opinion ZvTmech is decided in the midgame where you can either contain the T on 2 bases, 3bases with awesome trades, or see your drones get roasted & die to a 4base Mech army.

In the replay I posted above is a good picture of what i'm describing (although i feel i'm kinda just outplaying my opponent, happens with a new season).

On January 04 2013 21:24 Kraelog wrote:



Ok let me try to add some meaningful points.


1. at 14.42 he has 8 zealots, 1 immortals & two archons with low shields vs 31 Roaches & 10 Infestors. Just bloody kill him Protoss has a strong defenders advantage but in this case pulling back was mistake I feel. At the very least you can kill his third.

2. Map awareness. You never have any lings/ols scouting his 4th locations. When he's 90 supply behind & no tech units he takes an incredibly risky expand at 14.42 and you just let him. When you go kill his fourth with BLs he just reexpands on the other side, which again, who have no knowledge off. If you had denied those bases, the game would have been a straight up victory, but you let him come back.


3. Concerning DT harass, why would you Not spine your bases? You have a good minerals overflow and 100 drones so a spore & 5 spines in every mineral line would have stopped the harass completely. Instead you lose base after base chasing DT's with a maxed army while the Protoss gets back on his feet.


So overall, you won the game at 14.42 with the retard all-in from the protoss, then you gave him 6 mins to let him recover. If he had any brains and gotten a mothership for the F****A*****toilet :p, you could easily have lost.

On January 05 2013 08:16 Mavvie wrote:


I am so stubborn with spore/spine...I guess I naturally play greedy and feel I can be fine without it. In the future I'll force myself to build at least 3 spines + overseer at each base, more at the outer ones.

I lost another game today to double warp prism DT-everywhere style, so annoying to play against. More spines I guess.

On January 05 2013 04:32 Natalya wrote:


Have broodlords and corru in one control group. Spread them then a-move them. Have infestors in another group, fungal vikings (not thors/tanks/helions) when you can, that is if he unsiege his tanks. Have queens (few player use them, but they're uncredibly powerfull) in an other control group and transfuse corru/broods. If the vikings kite you corruptors, you're fine, as long as they play cat and mouse with your corruptors, they are not killing broodlords, so this little game is at your advantage. When viking kite, just pull your corruptors back to your broodlords and hit a couple transfuse on them. This will make vikings clump and come closer to your infestors, for easier fungals. Also, they'll be hit by queens. If the terran keeps tanks sieged, you can not fungal vikings/hardly can transfuse corruptors unless you're ok to lose some infestors/queens (it's ok to lose them if u're even or ahead).

A few more tricks : If the terran does not unsiege his tanks, it probably means you dont have enough broodlords to force him to. 5 broodlords in your army is the minimum. 8 is better, more is luxury and you should invest in corruptors more than broodlords at that point (unless ofcourse the terran goes full thors with only few vikings).

Depending on your league, your opponent will usually not focus fire your infestors. I think it wont happen unless you face good master players. What that means is that you can fungal as long as tanks have anything else than infestor to fire at. It can be infested terrans or broodlings. So make more broodlords or spam like 10 eggs and wait for them to become infested terrans before moving for the fungal, then keep spamming terrans and fungal or retreat if you're out of energy. Obviously you want to spread your eggs so they dont get one shoted. If you're low on gas, use a lot of queens (up to 8 maximum) and walk into tank fire while spamming transfuse each other while fungaling :D

If you have any lings, runby into an expo or look to defend drops. They dont add that much in the fight since you already have broodlings and therefore they are more usefull elsewhere.

Hope it helped

On January 05 2013 08:53 Natalya wrote:


Make it between 6 and 10 spines and at least 3 spores in your main base, and minimum 5 spines every other base The thing is, the protoss is not supposed to kill you straight up, so you should not hesitate to spine up, especially when you reach max and start floating over 1k minerals. That way, he cant harass anymore and has to attack straight up, where he's supposed to lose.

Before you start your wall of spine, it's not exagerated to go to 100 drones on 5 base while building infestor, spire and hive with your gas then spining up your 4rth, 5th with at least 5 spines and like 15 spines for your spine wall, so that you should get down to about 80 drones. The easiest way to do that is to overdrone your 4rth like a madman (like 40 drones on it) before taking gas and spining and to drone your 5th enough to have both gas + 5 spines. The thing with the overdroning is that you go on too much supply of drones so they can pay for themselves (they pay for the spine they'll become) and when u're maxed with a reasonable infestor ball and hive on the way, you go down on supply to get a bigger army and to sac those drones on spines. The result is that you can afford 3-4k minerals worth of static defense without being mineral starved and without going too low on drones. Good job, you're now turtled like a boss

If your wall of spine finish before the protoss push and you didnt forget your corruptors, he cant break you. You should have around 10 infestors and as many corruptors as needed in case he has collossus.

To achieve all of that in time, though, you cant waste time trying to kick the protoss 3rd and trading armies. You need to double expand and drone to death as soon as you see a 3rd nexus.

Some players will try to kick the protoss 3rd (doable if he went stargate + robo before expand and you decided to go lings double upgrades). It's another style, lower on drones and higher on agression. With this style, you usually dont take an early 5th because you'll not be able to drone it in time

On January 05 2013 09:38 Mavvie wrote:

In the lategame I'd buy that, but I always fuck up the timing to get them.

Basically I have 2 options:
1) Spine up the front to defend a push, or
2) Spine up my bases to not die to drops

Protoss has 2 options:
A) Push my front with a colossus/stalker or similar all in
B) Use mass drop play with multiple warp prisms to secure bases and kill my economy/tech

1>A and 2>B, but
1<B and 2<A

I feel like it's a coinflip...how do you scout the difference between a frontal all in push and mass drop macro play? Both get lots of colossi and stalkers and push your front (At least feign a push), but they both require opposite responses >_>

On January 05 2013 09:29 Mahtasooma wrote:
Imagine the following scenario: I opened with a midly fast pool, in any case, I get like 4-5 lings past his wall before he can wall off, the instant his cannon is going up. The cannon is protecting the ramp.

Is it better to go straight to the main, losing 2 lings in the process to the cannon? or is it better to have the lings sitting in his nat blocking his expo till he has 2 zealots out?