EPTPrinceXizor's Zerg Build: No early game. - Page 2
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
What is the timing on the first infestor with 75 energy? I would mostly be concerned about an early hellion/marauder push or even fast banshees/fast thor as fungal growth is a lot worse against those than against marines and reapers. The other issue I see with it is that as we all know, hydras aren't the best idea against T and mutas are very gas heavy (so don't fit well with infestors). What can be done about air defense, is fungal and ITs enough ? | ||
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ZaaaaaM
Netherlands1828 Posts
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
On September 12 2010 07:02 Sixes wrote: Sounds interesting and I would be happy to help test it around the 1100 diamond level. What is the timing on the first infestor with 75 energy? I would mostly be concerned about an early hellion/marauder push or even fast banshees/fast thor as fungal growth is a lot worse against those than against marines and reapers. The other issue I see with it is that as we all know, hydras aren't the best idea against T and mutas are very gas heavy (so don't fit well with infestors). What can be done about air defense, is fungal and ITs enough ? From what I saw the equal range of the banshees means you can use 3-4 hydras to pick off the banshees one at a time when they're fungal growthed with a little bit of micro to keep the low health hydra back, the banshees won't all be able to shoot the hydras at once because they're equal range with the upgrade. And for thors, you're going to be making alot of zerglings, and upgraded zerglings are cost effective against thors. For the hellion/marauder push I'm pretty sure that you'll have fungal growth before it comes, at least enough energy for one but I'm not exactly sure on the timing of the first 75 energy. Basically hardcounters I.E Hellions to zerglings aren't really hardcounters if they can't move! : P The infestor basically turns the tide of ZvT and the faster you get infestors the easier it becomes to deal with a terran. | ||
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
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pyjamads
Denmark33 Posts
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Andtwo
United States126 Posts
If nothing else it's convinced me to incorporate earlier infestors into my play. The 30/whatever while researching timing is useful to know too. | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
On September 12 2010 04:17 Bowdy wrote: dont forget his zvz build. speedling baneling roach hydra infestor off one base. :p You think that's impressive, you havent seen my speedling, baneling, roach, infestor, hydra, overlord, ultra, broodlord, corruptor, overseer, drone, queen, changeling extractor build. | ||
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kataa
United Kingdom384 Posts
The combination of microing the small infestor forces against harass, while trying to keep up in economy against 2x-3x orbital commands does my head in. | ||
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
On September 12 2010 21:34 kataa wrote: Been testing this out since I woke up this morning, had nothing but horrible experiences so far. I won't post replays though, as I'm doing it far, far too sloppy.My big problem with this build is when my opponant realizes that I don't really have any chance to push him with early infestors, and goes economy crazy. The combination of microing the small infestor forces against harass, while trying to keep up in economy against 2x-3x orbital commands does my head in. I kind of think with this build that you can go expand crazy because of how many minerals you're going to be stacking up because you're basically just spending gas. Like others have said you probably NEED an extra hatch and queen for zerglings. | ||
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kataa
United Kingdom384 Posts
On September 12 2010 21:50 TLOBrian wrote: I kind of think with this build that you can go expand crazy because of how many minerals you're going to be stacking up because you're basically just spending gas. Like others have said you probably NEED an extra hatch and queen for zerglings. I think you're right. As he said himself in a ZvZ, it's only after he gets a 2nd hatch that he has the larva to take map control with the upgraded lings. He does this much earlier, and really well in his TvZ which is what makes it so strong. I'm far from a decent SC2 player, but my background in Company of Heroes makes me paranoid as hell any time I don't have map control. Gonna try out this strat some more, with a focus on lings with upgrades, a little less intense on the infestor side. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Proto-n
Hungary6 Posts
how do you defend vs a bunker rush? (the bunker being in range of your natural) | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
your easily vunerable to a strong early game push.. any all in push would decimate you. you cannot choose to be so greedy and expect to live. | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
But that's what i like about it, is if watching the replay makes it hard to judge how powerful of an army the zerg has, then playing against it must be even worse. The lack of air defense most of the game is deceptive too, but the fungal growth does pretty well vs air. I'll definately try this a bit and just try and get a feel. I like the idea of the infestors being the core of his defense, they seem to always be devistating when he uses them. | ||
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
On September 13 2010 04:01 Proto-n wrote: this was my standard build against protoss/terran (well, almost the same), until they started 2gate-ing and bunker rushing me (back in beta phase 1) how do you defend vs a bunker rush? (the bunker being in range of your natural) I'm in PrinceXizor's livestream right now asking him questions. HE ALWAYS SCOUTS ON 9! Against 2gate there are roaches and spine crawlers involved to fend off the 2 gate. Your lair hatch gets up SUPER fast to have creep there. Once you fend off the two gate you hit them with a timing push while they're transitioning. You'll have a 6 roach 4 hydralisk push and you'll....decimate him basically. Also once you transition into the mid game...If he goes storm you can just run up and fungal growth his high templar, neural parasite a couple of them and blanket his own army with storm because he can't get out because hes fungaled : P Scout early on 9 against terran because you can learn the timings from gas for reapers etc. From bunker rushes if you see an scv running down from the base with your overlord You just pull a worker or two and kill the scv. You always want to be wary once you see an SCV going towards your base. | ||
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
On September 13 2010 04:07 PhiliBiRD wrote: so ur fast expanding and quick teching. your easily vunerable to a strong early game push.. any all in push would decimate you. you cannot choose to be so greedy and expect to live. If you scout a strong early push, delay teching for a while and make some spine crawlers and speedlings. If you manage to fend off an all-in, the game is pretty much yours from that point anyway. | ||
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 13 2010 05:51 TLOBrian wrote: I'm in PrinceXizor's livestream right now asking him questions. HE ALWAYS SCOUTS ON 9! Against 2gate there are roaches and spine crawlers involved to fend off the 2 gate. Your lair hatch gets up SUPER fast to have creep there. Once you fend off the two gate you hit them with a timing push while they're transitioning. You'll have a 6 roach 4 hydralisk push and you'll....decimate him basically. Also once you transition into the mid game...If he goes storm you can just run up and fungal growth his high templar, neural parasite a couple of them and blanket his own army with storm because he can't get out because hes fungaled : P Scout early on 9 against terran because you can learn the timings from gas for reapers etc. From bunker rushes if you see an scv running down from the base with your overlord You just pull a worker or two and kill the scv. You always want to be wary once you see an SCV going towards your base. 1. This thread is awesome. 2. The 2gate reference above is not a part of my ZvT build. it was a random question i got. i'm not the best vs Protoss (worst matchup by far), and so i'm still experimenting i do a different openning vs protoss. and for fungal growthing + NP templar it's very hard to do, and i don't bother to pull it off against micro-players. it works vs the macro style protoss that just want alot of stuff and don't micro as well. and it's good as a surprise with burrow but thats it. 3. I scout on 9 specifically for reaper or banshee timing. also i get an overseer (if i'm playing well) as soon as my lair finishes to keep scouting throughout the game. 4. My build was originally developed in beta to play vs mech (during all the mech imba cries), and as such it works wonderfully vs the reactor'd hellion harrassment. you do have infestors out in time. it takes practice to beat reapers w/ this build though i was failing miserably for a long while trying it. even hatching in base at times ect. but now I can do pretty well against it and typically don't lose more than a drone or two. and some lings. 5. my mechanics are the worst part of my play, and do not dismiss the build because my mechanics were not great. i'm working on them. my opponents were all diamond around 700-1000 at the time of the replays. 6. Vs Bunkers your early scout sees the SCV coming and you have positioned your overlord to spot anybunker and if the scv disappears you send a drone after it, if a bunker goes down pull 2 drones and kill the scv. thats what i do, there is probably a better way though. but its what i do. And thank you for making this thread O.o | ||
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