PrinceXizor's Zerg Build: No early game. - Page 8

On September 19 2010 06:44 Horgath wrote:
Thanks for your awesome stream helped me a lot...and i love infestors now :D

I still have some problems with early mm pressure...tried with FE and without..but its always kinda easier with some banelings because at the time they push i only have 1 infestor...
Guess i need some work on the timing.
Thanks for the new Replays

On September 13 2010 10:58 Thoro wrote:
Ahahah, I was totally in chat. Fun times.



I dunno if this was addressed already (3 pages is too much reading for one with A.D.D. as persistent as I) but they'll have speed by the time you have reaper speed. If you, as a terran player with reapers, don't have speed and they don't have speed, then the creep will give the lings the move speed advantage, and will shut down kiting until your reapers get speed.

Of course, if you outmicro the lings with cliff jumping, then you can still pull off effective harassing. But if the Zerg can pull off the relatively basic micro required to chase, flank, and surround the reapers, then he's golden, he's shut down the early reapers, etc. etc. etc.

And as for bunker rushes, if the Zerg sees early signs of a bunker rush (proxy rax, dropped scv count, a bunker being constructed in the Zerg main are all nice signs) then he simply won't place down the expansion. Or, depending on how early he scouts and how confident he's feeling, he might anyways.

On September 19 2010 08:08 Drome wrote:
Thank you very much for the streams and this thread, I'm just a casual Gold player (= I suck), but I've had more success with this vs Terrans than with muta/b/ling, except versus the few who are just plain abusive (Tanks on certain maps, chokes and turtling makes ultras useless, mass banshee with vikings sniping Overseers.) Not doing so hot against high Platinum/occasional low Diamond protoss though, if they play solid, big balls make Zerglings and Ultras weak on almost all maps, and Infestors plain seem bad against Protoss, as FG isn't that strong vs shielded and NP is a joke, especially vs blink stalkers.

Anyhow, my questions are about your choices regarding upgrades, and on how to actually attack a turtle with this.
It seems, even in matches where you mostly rely on hydra+infestor micro, you pump mostly melee attacks. Granted upgraded Lings and Banelings own, and if/when you eventually get Ultras they'll be significantly better, but isn't Carapace a better option for Zerg when fighting air/going Hydra?

Also, if I recall right, you often get the Infestor +energy upgrade before even getting an infestor in some matches, even when you really need early infestors vs early aggression. Why? I understand it's good, like the similar thing is for HTs, but is the extra energy worth delaying the first infestor?
You also get Adrenal Glands very often and quickly, even when you're not really using huge amounts of Zerglings. It strikes me as an perfect example of how Terran inexplicably have easier/cheaper upgrades, we get a 200m200g tier 3 upgrade for a relatively small dps increase for our most basic unit, which isn't as useful in lategame with surrounds being impossible, while Terran gets much stronger stuff like Stimpacks and Marine Shields as early as Tech Lab (tier 1 I'd say) for 100m100g, which is also far ahead of protoss Charge/Blink for 200m200g/150m150g tier 2.

Also, attacking turtles with this seems impossible. Good players notice Nydus Worms, and 2-3 Siege Tanks/equivalents behind a walled-off choke pretty much deters any ling/ultra/hydra attack. How do you actually end games? Starve them?

Sorry if this has been answered before.

On September 19 2010 08:26 StarBrift wrote:


I'm sorry but that is simply not true. A 9 gas 9 rax reaper will start speed at the same time as the first reaper. There is no chance in hell that you have lingspeed anywhere close to finished when reaper speed is finished. Not when going 14 hatch. as I said the firest reaper will arrive before your first lings spawn, so what are you going to do vs a bunker then?

On September 21 2010 04:38 JrK wrote:
I've gotten decent at repelling reapers, but now it's the rine/tank timing push. If I don't catch them out in the middle (while getting out an insanely fast infester) it's gg.

On September 21 2010 04:34 BadassHamster wrote:
Really enjoyed the replays and the concept; I've been trying to incorporate the infestor use more into my play. Prince, I was just curious if you'd ever teched to broodlords rather than ultralisks, and if and what made you decide they weren't worth it? Is it the relative lack of anti-air in the build, or maybe the extraordinary amount of time required to get to them that makes it not feasible? The combination of FG and broodlord range just seems so tempting.

On September 21 2010 05:19 spraynard wrote:
I tried this strategy a couple of times yesterday vs terran, and I've got to say it really works. I'm a ~700 Diamond and I had great success with this build. I think terrans have come to expect mutas/lings out of zerg so much that they tend to over turtle which this strat really punishes. By the time the terran usually pushes I have enough vision to know when he starts his march. I can usually meet him a ways out with infestor and fungal and run back. The first push is almost always easily defended and after that I have ultras and cracklings on the way.

My main concern with this build is that I don't think you can punish early expansion play at all. If the terran chooses to fast(ish) expand I would have nothing to stop it.

I'm very impressed with how well you play Xizor, considering how relatively weak your mechanics are. Keep up the good work, I'm learning lots from you.

On September 21 2010 05:32 PrinceXizor wrote:

the fact that i get the + melee upgrades which help ultralisks alot more thanbroods.

On September 21 2010 05:36 daywiss wrote:
when are you going to upload some vods again xizor? also what time do you normally stream?