• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:45
CEST 14:45
KST 21:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy0GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding0Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Korean words The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1858 users

[G] ZvT Muta vs. Thor - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 15 Next All
FunkyLich
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States107 Posts
August 21 2010 17:38 GMT
#181
I edited the post! Go forth and read it. NAOW.
crappen
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway1546 Posts
August 21 2010 17:39 GMT
#182
On August 22 2010 02:29 Calidus wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 22 2010 02:25 Pyrthas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:21 MaYuu wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:15 OblivionMage wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:10 Calidus wrote:
The game has to be balanced at a pro level to be successful.



MW2 wasn't 'balanced' at a pro level, heh, it wasn't even capable of supporting pro play, yet it was immensely successful.

Also, stop thinking that Blizzard will do some sort of knee-jerk nerf to change this. And those of you trolling about it being a bug...


MW2 was not sucessfull it was a bland game and it failed missrable.

MW2 was hugely successful in that it sold tons of units and made tons of money. It is not as successful as a competitive game. It seems pretty clear that people are operating with two different notions of success here.

(Edit: MW2 was, for instance, the best selling piece of entertainment in the UK last year in terms of units moved, not just money spent. It sold 33% more units than the second-place finisher, a Harry Potter DVD, despite costing so much more.)

Pyrthas u hit the nail on the head ty




BW and CS is success, and that is the kind of success I think most people on TL refer too. Sellling millions of copy and being a horrible game like MW2 is not. Realize that many people bought MW2 cause MW1 was such a good game, and then getting facefucked by Activision.

Bull-Demon
Profile Joined January 2003
United States582 Posts
August 21 2010 17:40 GMT
#183
I can't believe people are asking to buff thors..? Seriously?

People need to stop looking to Blizzard for answers and instead look at the fucking game you're playing.
~_~
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
August 21 2010 17:44 GMT
#184
On August 22 2010 02:40 Bull-Demon wrote:
I can't believe people are asking to buff thors..? Seriously?

People need to stop looking to Blizzard for answers and instead look at the fucking game you're playing.


Yeah seriously.

"YOU MEAN I CANT MAKE 1 UNIT AND WIN EVERYTHING ANYMORE? NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF!!!!!!!!"
RxN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States255 Posts
August 21 2010 17:45 GMT
#185
Hahaha, oh how I hope terrans start mass crying about this. Going to be great laying into them like they've done all the zerg players for the last 2 months.
0c3LoT
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada162 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 17:47:44
August 21 2010 17:46 GMT
#186
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.
Winning is a lifestyle choice.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
August 21 2010 17:47 GMT
#187
On August 22 2010 02:35 blastedt wrote:
Haven't people been doing this for ages against Valkyries and Corsairs in Brood War?


Yeah and especially against archons ....
eNyoron
Profile Joined September 2009
United States170 Posts
August 21 2010 17:48 GMT
#188
If you're going hellion-thor-tank, you have to constantly harass with the hellions to prevent zerg from building a large muta army (hellions are faster and zerg won't have any ground forces besides lings because of the large gas cost of mutas, making it very easy). If you want to play a more passive-push style, you need marines instead of hellions.
0sm9sm8sm... the beginning of the end.
Phisk
Profile Joined June 2010
166 Posts
August 21 2010 17:51 GMT
#189
On August 22 2010 02:46 0c3LoT wrote:
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.


Just cause they're commentators doesn't mean that they know of every technique for every race. It was new to them, they got exited. I for one hasn't seen this being used in high level pro games before, even tho people has known about it for some time.
ZergSecks
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden35 Posts
August 21 2010 17:52 GMT
#190
IdrA used this technique in the semifinals of IEM vs Tarson (heavy mech; hellion, thors). Took out four thors with minimal losses.

It was awesome to see. :-)
"The reason theres no zerg on the server is cuz fags like you do builds like this" - IdrA
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
August 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#191
I wonder: is it a real BW magic box, do you have to select the units by moving the mouse from one corner of the box to the other, or can I just double click one muta to select all and it will work the same?
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
argie
Profile Joined July 2010
Croatia31 Posts
August 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#192
On August 22 2010 02:24 Calidus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:15 argie wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:10 Calidus wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:05 argie wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:03 brn4meplz wrote:
If Blizzard wants Thors to be a hard counter to Muta's they are just going to buff the AoE.


They can't buff splash further because then people who don't use this will get raped a bit too much by Thors...


The game has to be balanced at a pro level to be successful.


This has nothing to do with balance. It is a tactic how to use Mutas vs Thors with maximum effect. Any pro will learn fast to spread Thors and not clump them and when Mutas come over 2 Thors, rest will rape them. Or any simillar strat.

And as people say, this has been around for a long time so I doubt there is gonna be a major game brakedown.


I am not saying they should or should not buff thors because of this play style. what i am saying it you can't use the argument that players should not have to use specific micro technique to make units effective. Those people who don't use this technique will need to learn it.

Edit: is suck at english


Need to learn it? You are not serious?
herberdotcom
Profile Joined May 2010
7 Posts
August 21 2010 17:57 GMT
#193
I love the implications that this magic box has for ZvT metagame.

First of all, this magic box technique finally gives Zerg players like me the opportunity to play proactively, rather than purely reactively.

Second, this will result in some entertaining battles for spectators. I think that we'll see players who commit to 100% mech support thors with ravens for HSM and PDD, which means that 200/200 fights will involve more micro, as Zerg players run from HSM and try to take down PDD without stacking.

T can also go biomech, mainly marine/tank. The zerg will go bling/muta/ling of course. This will also be entertaining for spectators because the terran must put himself in a position for his sieged tanks to engage the mass banelings at max range, target firing the blings while the marines run away, giving the Zerg player the opportunitiy to snipe tanks w/ mutas for a few seconds. Its a tense scenario, where either side can come away with a one sided victory if he outmicro's the other. We've already seen Morrow and thestc play games like this.

Definitely starting to see opportunities for there to be more micro in SC2 than SC1 (but still less macro,) which is very exciting.
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
August 21 2010 17:58 GMT
#194
On August 22 2010 02:53 HowardRoark wrote:
I wonder: is it a real BW magic box, do you have to select the units by moving the mouse from one corner of the box to the other, or can I just double click one muta to select all and it will work the same?

That's not how magic boxes worked in BW...
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
koOma
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway462 Posts
August 21 2010 18:01 GMT
#195
On August 22 2010 02:46 0c3LoT wrote:
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.


it was unknown in competetive play until today.
He wears a mask so when he dogs his face / Each and every race could absorb the bass /// ST_Life
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 18:03:18
August 21 2010 18:02 GMT
#196
On August 22 2010 02:47 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:35 blastedt wrote:
Haven't people been doing this for ages against Valkyries and Corsairs in Brood War?


Yeah and especially against archons ....


Duh you spread against anything with splash but that isn't the interesting part. Many people including myself weren't familiar with auto spread or the small splash of the thor.

+ Show Spoiler +


Check 3:55 in the video. It's of Idra using mutalisks against thors. See how he has to manually spread mutalisks? Then comes a cute technique that facilitates the process and damage is minimized
Shika
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 18:07:48
August 21 2010 18:03 GMT
#197
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.
Phisk
Profile Joined June 2010
166 Posts
August 21 2010 18:18 GMT
#198
On August 22 2010 03:03 Shika wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.


Im not talking about the micro, I'm talking about the mass muta anti-thor/mech build, which obviously relies heavily on magic boxing. Also, thinking one of the best zergs in the world doesnt know about something that is considered "common sense" to any competative zerg is ridiculous.
brn4meplz
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada98 Posts
August 21 2010 18:40 GMT
#199
No one is asking to buff Thor's, I simply made the comment that if Blizzard wanted Thors to hard counter Muta's they could do that.(just like they could do alot of things) I don't personally use Thors in my gameplay the unit is too much of a resource sink for me. I'd rather have more of something then less of big things.
Give a man a fire keep him warm for a while. Light a man on fire, keep him warm for life.
Pking
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden142 Posts
August 21 2010 18:41 GMT
#200
On August 22 2010 03:18 Phisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 03:03 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.


Im not talking about the micro, I'm talking about the mass muta anti-thor/mech build, which obviously relies heavily on magic boxing. Also, thinking one of the best zergs in the world doesnt know about something that is considered "common sense" to any competative zerg is ridiculous.


Watched a cast uploaded by HDStarcraft recently where IdrA did clump his mutas when engaging thors:
(4 minutes in). Not sure when this was played.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
#4
RotterdaM549
TKL 286
SteadfastSC130
Rex112
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 549
TKL 286
Lowko239
SteadfastSC 130
Codebar 119
Rex 112
ProTech112
IndyStarCraft 110
Livibee 82
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5932
Jaedong 2126
Bisu 1632
Horang2 1290
Shuttle 778
Hyuk 443
Larva 438
Stork 406
Mini 389
Soma 325
[ Show more ]
Light 262
actioN 256
Rush 240
Aegong 230
ggaemo 229
Snow 207
Bale 183
EffOrt 170
Last 169
Leta 127
Pusan 127
ZerO 125
PianO 117
hero 77
Hyun 65
scan(afreeca) 58
Barracks 45
ToSsGirL 44
Backho 37
Sharp 35
sSak 34
soO 26
910 23
Shinee 20
zelot 19
HiyA 18
Shine 18
Movie 15
Rock 13
Terrorterran 13
SilentControl 12
GoRush 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
JulyZerg 9
Icarus 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5266
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2606
fl0m414
x6flipin335
edward66
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King103
Other Games
singsing2214
Liquid`RaSZi1318
B2W.Neo803
crisheroes437
hiko315
XaKoH 260
DeMusliM135
ArmadaUGS35
ZerO(Twitch)4
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL14753
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HappyZerGling 51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1922
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
11h 15m
The PondCast
21h 15m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 11h
WardiTV Team League
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
OSC
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.