• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:14
CET 05:14
KST 13:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT8Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0224LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker15
StarCraft 2
General
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game?
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Team League Season 10 PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea Ladder maps - how we can make blizz update them? TvZ is the most complete match up Brood War inspired Terran vs Zerg cinematic – feed Which units you wish saw more use in the game?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Diablo 2 thread ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Corso Formazione Insegnanti Yoga What Game makes you happy and stress free?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013 2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Search For Meaning in Vi…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1515 users

[G] ZvT Muta vs. Thor - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 15 Next All
FunkyLich
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States107 Posts
August 21 2010 17:38 GMT
#181
I edited the post! Go forth and read it. NAOW.
crappen
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway1546 Posts
August 21 2010 17:39 GMT
#182
On August 22 2010 02:29 Calidus wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 22 2010 02:25 Pyrthas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:21 MaYuu wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:15 OblivionMage wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:10 Calidus wrote:
The game has to be balanced at a pro level to be successful.



MW2 wasn't 'balanced' at a pro level, heh, it wasn't even capable of supporting pro play, yet it was immensely successful.

Also, stop thinking that Blizzard will do some sort of knee-jerk nerf to change this. And those of you trolling about it being a bug...


MW2 was not sucessfull it was a bland game and it failed missrable.

MW2 was hugely successful in that it sold tons of units and made tons of money. It is not as successful as a competitive game. It seems pretty clear that people are operating with two different notions of success here.

(Edit: MW2 was, for instance, the best selling piece of entertainment in the UK last year in terms of units moved, not just money spent. It sold 33% more units than the second-place finisher, a Harry Potter DVD, despite costing so much more.)

Pyrthas u hit the nail on the head ty




BW and CS is success, and that is the kind of success I think most people on TL refer too. Sellling millions of copy and being a horrible game like MW2 is not. Realize that many people bought MW2 cause MW1 was such a good game, and then getting facefucked by Activision.

Bull-Demon
Profile Joined January 2003
United States582 Posts
August 21 2010 17:40 GMT
#183
I can't believe people are asking to buff thors..? Seriously?

People need to stop looking to Blizzard for answers and instead look at the fucking game you're playing.
~_~
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
August 21 2010 17:44 GMT
#184
On August 22 2010 02:40 Bull-Demon wrote:
I can't believe people are asking to buff thors..? Seriously?

People need to stop looking to Blizzard for answers and instead look at the fucking game you're playing.


Yeah seriously.

"YOU MEAN I CANT MAKE 1 UNIT AND WIN EVERYTHING ANYMORE? NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF!!!!!!!!"
RxN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States255 Posts
August 21 2010 17:45 GMT
#185
Hahaha, oh how I hope terrans start mass crying about this. Going to be great laying into them like they've done all the zerg players for the last 2 months.
0c3LoT
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada162 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 17:47:44
August 21 2010 17:46 GMT
#186
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.
Winning is a lifestyle choice.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
August 21 2010 17:47 GMT
#187
On August 22 2010 02:35 blastedt wrote:
Haven't people been doing this for ages against Valkyries and Corsairs in Brood War?


Yeah and especially against archons ....
eNyoron
Profile Joined September 2009
United States170 Posts
August 21 2010 17:48 GMT
#188
If you're going hellion-thor-tank, you have to constantly harass with the hellions to prevent zerg from building a large muta army (hellions are faster and zerg won't have any ground forces besides lings because of the large gas cost of mutas, making it very easy). If you want to play a more passive-push style, you need marines instead of hellions.
0sm9sm8sm... the beginning of the end.
Phisk
Profile Joined June 2010
166 Posts
August 21 2010 17:51 GMT
#189
On August 22 2010 02:46 0c3LoT wrote:
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.


Just cause they're commentators doesn't mean that they know of every technique for every race. It was new to them, they got exited. I for one hasn't seen this being used in high level pro games before, even tho people has known about it for some time.
ZergSecks
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden35 Posts
August 21 2010 17:52 GMT
#190
IdrA used this technique in the semifinals of IEM vs Tarson (heavy mech; hellion, thors). Took out four thors with minimal losses.

It was awesome to see. :-)
"The reason theres no zerg on the server is cuz fags like you do builds like this" - IdrA
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
August 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#191
I wonder: is it a real BW magic box, do you have to select the units by moving the mouse from one corner of the box to the other, or can I just double click one muta to select all and it will work the same?
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
argie
Profile Joined July 2010
Croatia31 Posts
August 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#192
On August 22 2010 02:24 Calidus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:15 argie wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:10 Calidus wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:05 argie wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:03 brn4meplz wrote:
If Blizzard wants Thors to be a hard counter to Muta's they are just going to buff the AoE.


They can't buff splash further because then people who don't use this will get raped a bit too much by Thors...


The game has to be balanced at a pro level to be successful.


This has nothing to do with balance. It is a tactic how to use Mutas vs Thors with maximum effect. Any pro will learn fast to spread Thors and not clump them and when Mutas come over 2 Thors, rest will rape them. Or any simillar strat.

And as people say, this has been around for a long time so I doubt there is gonna be a major game brakedown.


I am not saying they should or should not buff thors because of this play style. what i am saying it you can't use the argument that players should not have to use specific micro technique to make units effective. Those people who don't use this technique will need to learn it.

Edit: is suck at english


Need to learn it? You are not serious?
herberdotcom
Profile Joined May 2010
7 Posts
August 21 2010 17:57 GMT
#193
I love the implications that this magic box has for ZvT metagame.

First of all, this magic box technique finally gives Zerg players like me the opportunity to play proactively, rather than purely reactively.

Second, this will result in some entertaining battles for spectators. I think that we'll see players who commit to 100% mech support thors with ravens for HSM and PDD, which means that 200/200 fights will involve more micro, as Zerg players run from HSM and try to take down PDD without stacking.

T can also go biomech, mainly marine/tank. The zerg will go bling/muta/ling of course. This will also be entertaining for spectators because the terran must put himself in a position for his sieged tanks to engage the mass banelings at max range, target firing the blings while the marines run away, giving the Zerg player the opportunitiy to snipe tanks w/ mutas for a few seconds. Its a tense scenario, where either side can come away with a one sided victory if he outmicro's the other. We've already seen Morrow and thestc play games like this.

Definitely starting to see opportunities for there to be more micro in SC2 than SC1 (but still less macro,) which is very exciting.
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
August 21 2010 17:58 GMT
#194
On August 22 2010 02:53 HowardRoark wrote:
I wonder: is it a real BW magic box, do you have to select the units by moving the mouse from one corner of the box to the other, or can I just double click one muta to select all and it will work the same?

That's not how magic boxes worked in BW...
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
koOma
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway462 Posts
August 21 2010 18:01 GMT
#195
On August 22 2010 02:46 0c3LoT wrote:
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.


it was unknown in competetive play until today.
He wears a mask so when he dogs his face / Each and every race could absorb the bass /// ST_Life
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 18:03:18
August 21 2010 18:02 GMT
#196
On August 22 2010 02:47 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:35 blastedt wrote:
Haven't people been doing this for ages against Valkyries and Corsairs in Brood War?


Yeah and especially against archons ....


Duh you spread against anything with splash but that isn't the interesting part. Many people including myself weren't familiar with auto spread or the small splash of the thor.

+ Show Spoiler +


Check 3:55 in the video. It's of Idra using mutalisks against thors. See how he has to manually spread mutalisks? Then comes a cute technique that facilitates the process and damage is minimized
Shika
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 18:07:48
August 21 2010 18:03 GMT
#197
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.
Phisk
Profile Joined June 2010
166 Posts
August 21 2010 18:18 GMT
#198
On August 22 2010 03:03 Shika wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.


Im not talking about the micro, I'm talking about the mass muta anti-thor/mech build, which obviously relies heavily on magic boxing. Also, thinking one of the best zergs in the world doesnt know about something that is considered "common sense" to any competative zerg is ridiculous.
brn4meplz
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada98 Posts
August 21 2010 18:40 GMT
#199
No one is asking to buff Thor's, I simply made the comment that if Blizzard wanted Thors to hard counter Muta's they could do that.(just like they could do alot of things) I don't personally use Thors in my gameplay the unit is too much of a resource sink for me. I'd rather have more of something then less of big things.
Give a man a fire keep him warm for a while. Light a man on fire, keep him warm for life.
Pking
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden142 Posts
August 21 2010 18:41 GMT
#200
On August 22 2010 03:18 Phisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 03:03 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.


Im not talking about the micro, I'm talking about the mass muta anti-thor/mech build, which obviously relies heavily on magic boxing. Also, thinking one of the best zergs in the world doesnt know about something that is considered "common sense" to any competative zerg is ridiculous.


Watched a cast uploaded by HDStarcraft recently where IdrA did clump his mutas when engaging thors:
(4 minutes in). Not sure when this was played.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
01:00
#69
PiGStarcraft425
davetesta133
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft425
WinterStarcraft338
RuFF_SC2 246
Nathanias 62
PiLiPiLi 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Noble 27
NaDa 23
Purpose 22
Icarus 8
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
tarik_tv3783
taco 1355
m0e_tv463
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox410
Other Games
summit1g13136
C9.Mang0572
Maynarde161
ToD77
Trikslyr77
minikerr5
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1317
BasetradeTV106
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 74
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1965
• Lourlo594
• Stunt378
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 46m
WardiTV Winter Champion…
7h 46m
Replay Cast
19h 46m
PiG Sty Festival
1d 4h
Maru vs Bunny
Classic vs SHIN
The PondCast
1d 5h
KCM Race Survival
1d 5h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 7h
OSC
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Clem vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

C-League Week 31
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026: China & Korea Invitational
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.