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[G] ZvT Muta vs. Thor - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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FunkyLich
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States107 Posts
August 21 2010 17:38 GMT
#181
I edited the post! Go forth and read it. NAOW.
crappen
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway1546 Posts
August 21 2010 17:39 GMT
#182
On August 22 2010 02:29 Calidus wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 22 2010 02:25 Pyrthas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:21 MaYuu wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:15 OblivionMage wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:10 Calidus wrote:
The game has to be balanced at a pro level to be successful.



MW2 wasn't 'balanced' at a pro level, heh, it wasn't even capable of supporting pro play, yet it was immensely successful.

Also, stop thinking that Blizzard will do some sort of knee-jerk nerf to change this. And those of you trolling about it being a bug...


MW2 was not sucessfull it was a bland game and it failed missrable.

MW2 was hugely successful in that it sold tons of units and made tons of money. It is not as successful as a competitive game. It seems pretty clear that people are operating with two different notions of success here.

(Edit: MW2 was, for instance, the best selling piece of entertainment in the UK last year in terms of units moved, not just money spent. It sold 33% more units than the second-place finisher, a Harry Potter DVD, despite costing so much more.)

Pyrthas u hit the nail on the head ty




BW and CS is success, and that is the kind of success I think most people on TL refer too. Sellling millions of copy and being a horrible game like MW2 is not. Realize that many people bought MW2 cause MW1 was such a good game, and then getting facefucked by Activision.

Bull-Demon
Profile Joined January 2003
United States582 Posts
August 21 2010 17:40 GMT
#183
I can't believe people are asking to buff thors..? Seriously?

People need to stop looking to Blizzard for answers and instead look at the fucking game you're playing.
~_~
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
August 21 2010 17:44 GMT
#184
On August 22 2010 02:40 Bull-Demon wrote:
I can't believe people are asking to buff thors..? Seriously?

People need to stop looking to Blizzard for answers and instead look at the fucking game you're playing.


Yeah seriously.

"YOU MEAN I CANT MAKE 1 UNIT AND WIN EVERYTHING ANYMORE? NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF!!!!!!!!"
RxN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States255 Posts
August 21 2010 17:45 GMT
#185
Hahaha, oh how I hope terrans start mass crying about this. Going to be great laying into them like they've done all the zerg players for the last 2 months.
0c3LoT
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada162 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 17:47:44
August 21 2010 17:46 GMT
#186
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.
Winning is a lifestyle choice.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
August 21 2010 17:47 GMT
#187
On August 22 2010 02:35 blastedt wrote:
Haven't people been doing this for ages against Valkyries and Corsairs in Brood War?


Yeah and especially against archons ....
eNyoron
Profile Joined September 2009
United States170 Posts
August 21 2010 17:48 GMT
#188
If you're going hellion-thor-tank, you have to constantly harass with the hellions to prevent zerg from building a large muta army (hellions are faster and zerg won't have any ground forces besides lings because of the large gas cost of mutas, making it very easy). If you want to play a more passive-push style, you need marines instead of hellions.
0sm9sm8sm... the beginning of the end.
Phisk
Profile Joined June 2010
166 Posts
August 21 2010 17:51 GMT
#189
On August 22 2010 02:46 0c3LoT wrote:
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.


Just cause they're commentators doesn't mean that they know of every technique for every race. It was new to them, they got exited. I for one hasn't seen this being used in high level pro games before, even tho people has known about it for some time.
ZergSecks
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden35 Posts
August 21 2010 17:52 GMT
#190
IdrA used this technique in the semifinals of IEM vs Tarson (heavy mech; hellion, thors). Took out four thors with minimal losses.

It was awesome to see. :-)
"The reason theres no zerg on the server is cuz fags like you do builds like this" - IdrA
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
August 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#191
I wonder: is it a real BW magic box, do you have to select the units by moving the mouse from one corner of the box to the other, or can I just double click one muta to select all and it will work the same?
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
argie
Profile Joined July 2010
Croatia31 Posts
August 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#192
On August 22 2010 02:24 Calidus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:15 argie wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:10 Calidus wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:05 argie wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:03 brn4meplz wrote:
If Blizzard wants Thors to be a hard counter to Muta's they are just going to buff the AoE.


They can't buff splash further because then people who don't use this will get raped a bit too much by Thors...


The game has to be balanced at a pro level to be successful.


This has nothing to do with balance. It is a tactic how to use Mutas vs Thors with maximum effect. Any pro will learn fast to spread Thors and not clump them and when Mutas come over 2 Thors, rest will rape them. Or any simillar strat.

And as people say, this has been around for a long time so I doubt there is gonna be a major game brakedown.


I am not saying they should or should not buff thors because of this play style. what i am saying it you can't use the argument that players should not have to use specific micro technique to make units effective. Those people who don't use this technique will need to learn it.

Edit: is suck at english


Need to learn it? You are not serious?
herberdotcom
Profile Joined May 2010
7 Posts
August 21 2010 17:57 GMT
#193
I love the implications that this magic box has for ZvT metagame.

First of all, this magic box technique finally gives Zerg players like me the opportunity to play proactively, rather than purely reactively.

Second, this will result in some entertaining battles for spectators. I think that we'll see players who commit to 100% mech support thors with ravens for HSM and PDD, which means that 200/200 fights will involve more micro, as Zerg players run from HSM and try to take down PDD without stacking.

T can also go biomech, mainly marine/tank. The zerg will go bling/muta/ling of course. This will also be entertaining for spectators because the terran must put himself in a position for his sieged tanks to engage the mass banelings at max range, target firing the blings while the marines run away, giving the Zerg player the opportunitiy to snipe tanks w/ mutas for a few seconds. Its a tense scenario, where either side can come away with a one sided victory if he outmicro's the other. We've already seen Morrow and thestc play games like this.

Definitely starting to see opportunities for there to be more micro in SC2 than SC1 (but still less macro,) which is very exciting.
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
August 21 2010 17:58 GMT
#194
On August 22 2010 02:53 HowardRoark wrote:
I wonder: is it a real BW magic box, do you have to select the units by moving the mouse from one corner of the box to the other, or can I just double click one muta to select all and it will work the same?

That's not how magic boxes worked in BW...
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
koOma
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway462 Posts
August 21 2010 18:01 GMT
#195
On August 22 2010 02:46 0c3LoT wrote:
Why is Idra getting credit for introducing this to NA/Europe?

Casters need to stop talking out of their ass, even Day9 and the other caster during the IEM semi-finals were saying Idra was using some previously unknown technique.


it was unknown in competetive play until today.
He wears a mask so when he dogs his face / Each and every race could absorb the bass /// ST_Life
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 18:03:18
August 21 2010 18:02 GMT
#196
On August 22 2010 02:47 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:35 blastedt wrote:
Haven't people been doing this for ages against Valkyries and Corsairs in Brood War?


Yeah and especially against archons ....


Duh you spread against anything with splash but that isn't the interesting part. Many people including myself weren't familiar with auto spread or the small splash of the thor.

+ Show Spoiler +


Check 3:55 in the video. It's of Idra using mutalisks against thors. See how he has to manually spread mutalisks? Then comes a cute technique that facilitates the process and damage is minimized
Shika
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 18:07:48
August 21 2010 18:03 GMT
#197
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.
Phisk
Profile Joined June 2010
166 Posts
August 21 2010 18:18 GMT
#198
On August 22 2010 03:03 Shika wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.


Im not talking about the micro, I'm talking about the mass muta anti-thor/mech build, which obviously relies heavily on magic boxing. Also, thinking one of the best zergs in the world doesnt know about something that is considered "common sense" to any competative zerg is ridiculous.
brn4meplz
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada98 Posts
August 21 2010 18:40 GMT
#199
No one is asking to buff Thor's, I simply made the comment that if Blizzard wanted Thors to hard counter Muta's they could do that.(just like they could do alot of things) I don't personally use Thors in my gameplay the unit is too much of a resource sink for me. I'd rather have more of something then less of big things.
Give a man a fire keep him warm for a while. Light a man on fire, keep him warm for life.
Pking
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden142 Posts
August 21 2010 18:41 GMT
#200
On August 22 2010 03:18 Phisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2010 03:03 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:21 Phisk wrote:
On August 22 2010 02:14 Shika wrote:
On August 22 2010 01:58 Redmark wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that IdrA didn't know about this before.
I mean, he plays this game professionally. Surely it's not that hard to figure out?


As hard as it is to believe, he didn't know about it before this thread, and neither did Day9 obviously.

Alot of people here are saying that this has been known since forever, and it probably has. But it has not been generally known before, not even by top of the line players like IdrA, believe it or not.


I find it VERY hard to believe that IdrA didnt know about this before, if you watched the game you could see he knew exactly what he was doing, he didnt just stumple across this in this thread and read about it, it was clearly something he had practiced. Its safe to say he hasnt known about it for too long tho, as he apparently told Apollo before that he found a "new" technique to counter mech. I would assume people, including IdrA, knew about this trick but hadn't fully explored its potential until fairly recently.


Do you realize how easy it is to use? It's not like he would have to train day and night for weeks to practice it. I could pull it off perfectly the first time I tried it and i'd imagine pretty much any zerg player could. Just order your mutas to fly past (normal move command) the thors and hit "H" when you're over their heads. You could hardly call it micro.


Im not talking about the micro, I'm talking about the mass muta anti-thor/mech build, which obviously relies heavily on magic boxing. Also, thinking one of the best zergs in the world doesnt know about something that is considered "common sense" to any competative zerg is ridiculous.


Watched a cast uploaded by HDStarcraft recently where IdrA did clump his mutas when engaging thors:
(4 minutes in). Not sure when this was played.
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