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WarpTV
205 Posts
On February 02 2014 05:50 Grumbels wrote: It's weird though, usually when you have a target you can run faster, not slower. I am not sure what you are getting at. when has really life ever surpassed the need for interesting and balanced game mechanics. | ||
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
On February 02 2014 06:51 WarpTV wrote: I am not sure what you are getting at. when has really life ever surpassed the need for interesting and balanced game mechanics. It's a pretty big change if you think about it. It changes all kiting and retreating. Who knows if it would be balanced. Interesting idea though. Make a test map of it | ||
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WarpTV
205 Posts
On February 02 2014 07:19 Beef Noodles wrote: It's a pretty big change if you think about it. It changes all kiting and retreating. Who knows if it would be balanced. Interesting idea though. Make a test map of it It is only a "big change" if we made the change " big". you make it seem like melee units should move at the speed of scourge wile on move command, but move at he speed of overlords wile on attack. That would be a "big change" If we only changed movement speed by 5% between the 2 move types, then some micro is needed on zealots, but not as extreme. | ||
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mycro
Sweden1579 Posts
Keep up the good work. | ||
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TopRamen
United States96 Posts
Maybe this is intentional, maybe not... But firebats don't do splash damage the same way they did in BW. BW Firebats have a bigger cone effect than the ones in SBow do. As a result, they don't effectively counter lings. Test it out in the unit tester using a choke or ramp scenario. EDIT: Firebats do NO splash damage. | ||
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WarpTV
205 Posts
On February 02 2014 14:53 TopRamen wrote: Ok I made a discovery I think... Maybe this is intentional, maybe not... But firebats don't do splash damage the same way they did in BW. BW Firebats have a bigger cone effect than the ones in SBow do. As a result, they don't effectively counter lings. Test it out in the unit tester using a choke or ramp scenario. EDIT: Firebats do NO splash damage. But they have 2x the HP | ||
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NapkinBox
United States314 Posts
That's a pretty bad trade-off o.O | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
EDIT: Firebats do NO splash damage. Editor isn't updated to the newest patch. | ||
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Karas
United States230 Posts
Bring back concussive shells but only against light units. Similar to the vulture (whose primary attack is designed to kill light, and spider mines which counter armored) this gives the marauder a wider niche than simply "armor killer". | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
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Vejita00
United States11 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
On February 03 2014 17:49 Xiphias wrote: We used to have more SC2 sized maps for Starbow and quickly discovered that it is very poorly balanced for those sizes. We'd rather just make more maps. Which we are! Stay tuned Bitch please. | ||
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
All hail IeZaeL, map-maker extraordinaire.  | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
http://drop.sc/373113 I am terribly outclassed in that match, but that is ok. If you watch from 13:35 on normal speed from my point of view(Zerg), you see how the pathing in sc2 pushes the hydras into manual mine activation range. I could use less hydras, but then again, could I? Since they then are just get sniped by vultures. So mutalisks it is, every game, all game. Great design. Yes I am frustrated. Statement from the devs: We thought irradiate and dark swarm are to dominant late game. Nerf both, see it does not work. Only rebuff Irradiate. Base balance on BW, TvZ in BW was horrific, before SaviOr should how to use defilers and before mutalisk micro was discoverd. Mutalisk micro has been removed with the last update. Dark swarm is still nerfed. Towards the end of BW we saw an emergence of queens vs Mech, we don't got those queens anymore. We got a nerfed Plague. We got roaches with an incredible range of 3, that are designed to close the distance vs opponents that do lack detection. Stops working around plat. The slowest banelings, that might work as mines early game, if scan wasn't so cheap. Lets try lategame without defilers, ultralisks, I'd like to meet you the marauder, lurkers, say high to the marauder, guardians, get ready to get irradiated and have you met the viking yet. TvZ lategame feels like a nightmare version of BW TvZ. Maybe I am the only Zerg that feels that way, maybe I am the last. And no more midgame pushes vs bunkers, since you can't abuse the angle imperfections of BW anymore to siege them with lurkers. I usually don't whine about balance, but when I do, it is after a patch that the devs proclaimed as being the last for some time to come and I see urgent needs of changing - of course, after you took care of the reaper debacle. Could some good Zerg share some late-game ZvT replays maybe, if it should be just me who is lost. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
Defiler was not just nerfed however, yes the cloud is smaller but the casting range is now longer, making them more certain to get casted (form 5 to 7). We are looking at the reapers. Lurkers have higher HP than they had in BW and even though ultralisk may seem weak at some points they scale very well with upgrades, so unless you rush for hive too fat they will be very strong. Guardians do feel a bit weak, I can agree with you there. Also, increasing the ensnare projectile speed (will most likely happen soon) will give Zerg another mid-game tool to use. Mutas do feel a bit weird now, maybe we can come up with a better solution. They just clumped up perfectly too easily. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On February 04 2014 02:41 Xiphias wrote: Mutas do feel a bit weird now, maybe we can come up with a better solution. They just clumped up perfectly too easily. make them clump up to 11-12 and then the mutas that are left start creating a new clump? dont know if its doable since i have 0 experience with modding also big props for buffing ensnare projectile speed, whenever i try to use vipers i often find my army dying/killing terran before ensnare actually lands | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
We got roaches with an incredible range of 3, that are designed to close the distance vs opponents that do lack detection No - doesn't matter if they have detection or not. Its still incredibly powerfull due to the high closing up speed + 25% DR + fares better vs Spider Mines. If you aren't aware, Spider Mine manual activation range was nerfed to 4 last patch. That might still be enough ofc as Hydras kinda press each other forward. But yeh, new versions of the Mines aren being tested. I usually don't whine about balance, but when I do, it is after a patch that the devs proclaimed as being the last for some time to come and I see urgent needs of changing - of course, after you took care of the reaper debacle Expect reworks/buffs to both Ensnare and Abduct. But I think if you really can whine about banelings, I think you haven't played anywhere near enough. Right now, Speedbanes (if proplerly used) completley break the game (in favor of the Zerg player). I think its also important to see the patch-comment in a perspective/in a context. It came right after the 3rd patch in 10 days. Afterwards, Kabel simply didn't have any time to work on Starbow (due to IRL stuff) and he also wanted to get a test map up. I think the way to interpret that comment is this way: "Don't expect any new patch over the next week + don't expect that new unit designs/new roles for units will be launched immediately on the next patched. Instead, they will be tested internally first". | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
On February 04 2014 02:41 Xiphias wrote: Some good points. Defiler was not just nerfed however, yes the cloud is smaller but the casting range is now longer, making them more certain to get casted (form 5 to 7). We are looking at the reapers. Lurkers have higher HP than they had in BW and even though ultralisk may seem weak at some points they scale very well with upgrades, so unless you rush for hive too fat they will be very strong. Guardians do feel a bit weak, I can agree with you there. Also, increasing the ensnare projectile speed (will most likely happen soon) will give Zerg another mid-game tool to use. Mutas do feel a bit weird now, maybe we can come up with a better solution. They just clumped up perfectly too easily. The higher HP on Lurkers does not enable them to siege a bunker. The higher cast-range on defilers is a strange "buff", since itself was under the darkswarm most of the time when casting and dark swarm was bigger, you ended up with kind of the same cast range. However, the smaller size and new cast range shifts the use of darkswarm to a mostly aggressive one, since it is easier to catch armies far off, the shorter duration however in conjunction with the numbers of dark swarms you need with their smaller radius to cover an expansion, make it a super expensive defense tool, like all my apm and larva production feels like it goes into making and eating zerglings. Also, ultralisk do not seem weaker, but the terran has a new counter vs them, (just like against their higher hp lurkers), but zerg no new answer. Thank you for the update though, a little silver lining, all I needed for now.  | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
On February 04 2014 03:18 Hider wrote: No - doesn't matter if they have detection or not. Its still incredibly powerfull due to the high closing up speed + 25% DR + not taking damage from Spider Mines. Wait wait wait, roaches don't take dmg from spider mines? o.0 Also, I am confused why you would upload a replay where you rush to Lurkers vs a mech'ing terarn and die to Vulture harass to proof that Hydras are UP vs Spider Mines. Sorry that confused you, as I said, I played terrible, but, with SC2 pathing, Hydras still push each other in the range of spider mines, which make them an unrealiable tool to clean minefields, which leave zerg with 1 option against a meching terran. However if roaches take no dmg from spider mines, I have to investigate that. But I think if you really can whine about banelings, I thikn you haven't played anywhere near enough/are playing against superior opponents. Right now, Banelings (if proplerly used) completley break the balance vs bio play (in favor of the Zerg player). Thats why I asked for replays of better Zergs. I think its also important to see the patch-comment in a perspective/in a context. It came right after the 3rd patch in 10 days. Kabel then barely had time to work on Starbow in the coming period and also wanted to get a test map up. I think the way to interpret that comment is this way: "Don't expect any new patch over the next week + don't expect that new unit designs/new roles for units will be launched immediately on the next patched. Instead, they will be tested internally first". And thanks, that makes much more sense. | ||
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