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[A] Starbow - Page 521
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
Please upvote | ||
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Doominator10
United States515 Posts
I like him a lot too. Lemme proofread when / if you have something | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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baba44713
83 Posts
On January 31 2014 01:27 Grumbels wrote: To stay with the theme: pick off after the events of brood war and pretend like the sc2 campaign never happened. Kerrigan isn't a whiny schoolgirl, Raynor isn't a love sick macho idiot, the feral zerg are all long dead, Mengsk is smart, Zerus is a volcanic wasteland. Don't forget - Tassadar is still f***ing dead. (but seriously, I don't think campaign is neccessary; a functioning ladder with enough players of all skills would be sufficient) | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Perfectly aware the game volume is much louder than my mic thanks guys ^^. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
The pathing is not so radical of a change, I dont think anyone would mind implementing it. I like it. | ||
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
On January 31 2014 15:02 decemberscalm wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAMXPBWUcW8&feature=youtu.be Looks good, though you are pretty much inaudible | ||
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baba44713
83 Posts
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
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NapkinBox
United States314 Posts
On January 31 2014 23:36 Daumen wrote: Just randomly read about the Devourer and noticed he has an abillity that I never saw, Blight. 5dps in an AoE, no Upgrade needed. Any1 got some experience with this? is it any good? how big is the aoe? :o Sounds like a really crazy late game harass and/or siege line break for ZvT and ZvP :O "STAY BACK! STAY BACK ALL OF YOU!" | ||
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Doominator10
United States515 Posts
On January 31 2014 23:36 Daumen wrote: Just randomly read about the Devourer and noticed he has an abillity that I never saw, Blight. 5dps in an AoE, no Upgrade needed. Any1 got some experience with this? is it any good? how big is the aoe? :o The ability is garbage vs anything that can move. It is basically a storm that takes about a minute to kill anything or something like that. The devourer is immobile during this time. Personally I think it would be better off as more of a toggle or at least a fire and forget ability and maybe a very slight dps buff. There is a Starbow Unit tester if you want to play with it and learn more about it (Maybe it instagibs worker lines who knows) | ||
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On February 01 2014 03:23 Doominator10 wrote: The devourer is immobile during this time wat... ok, then its rly crap. | ||
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WarpTV
205 Posts
In Brood War you had to move Zealots next to a retreating unit in order for an attack to hit. Just plane old attack move would net little hits vs well microed ranged units. So, in BW the Protoss had to micro too not just the Zerg (or T) when there was a micro battle with Hydra (or Marines) preforming shutter-step kiting vs zealots The out come of the battle depended on who had the better micro skills between the 2 players rather than the micro skills of one player (the Z or T) vs the built in AI (for the P). In Starbow, Zealots get free prefect micro. The Zerg must drop much of his APM in to the micro. This works to limit the skill expression of the Protoss player at ultra high levels of play. At low levels of play it is monstrously imbalanced as a zerg player with low AMP must spend his time microing, an equally low APM Protoss player can spend that same time on Macro wile the AI gives him grate zealot micro. I think Starbow should meet this halfway. By tweaking Zealot settings so that none microed Zealots are still effective on their own. This none microed effectiveness should be halfway between the current state of Starbow (perfect) and what it was in Brood War (not effective). At the same time, We allow for skill expression of Protoss in this micro battle. This can be achieved with a Zealot melee attack that is instant. But the damage is on a slight delay. So if the unit moves out of range in that delay time the attack as in-effect missed. It needs to be tuned so that on average 20 to 35 % of none micro ed Zealot attacks miss when the target moves at the time of the attack. From my experience in Brood War 40 to 60 % of zealot attacks missed. Also, We can increase or decrease the acceleration rate of hydras to allow for the right number of hits to land by none microed Zaelots. With this change Protoss has skill expression of up to 35% more effectiveness with microed Zealots wile not hindering newer starbow players. | ||
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NapkinBox
United States314 Posts
On February 02 2014 03:34 WarpTV wrote: I would like to address zealot's lack of micro, I play as Protoss vs Zerg players. also, as Zerg vs Protoss and Terran players. (as in I don't play ZvZ or PvT). Do to this 2/3rd of my games are PvZ playing on both sides of the matchup. In Brood War you had to move Zealots next to a retreating unit in order for an attack to hit. Just plane old attack move would net little hits vs well microed ranged units. So, in BW the Protoss had to micro too not just the Zerg (or T) when there was a micro battle with Hydra (or Marines) preforming shutter-step kiting vs zealots The out come of the battle depended on who had the better micro skills between the 2 players rather than the micro skills of one player (the Z or T) vs the built in AI (for the P). In Starbow, Zealots get free prefect micro. The Zerg must drop much of his APM in to the micro. This works to limit the skill expression of the Protoss player at ultra high levels of play. At low levels of play it is monstrously imbalanced as a zerg player with low AMP must spend his time microing, an equally low APM Protoss player can spend that same time on Macro wile the AI gives him grate zealot micro. I think Starbow should meet this halfway. By tweaking Zealot settings so that none microed Zealots are still effective on their own. This none microed effectiveness should be halfway between the current state of Starbow (perfect) and what it was in Brood War (not effective). At the same time, We allow for skill expression of Protoss in this micro battle. This can be achieved with a Zealot melee attack that is instant. But the damage is on a slight delay. So if the unit moves out of range in that delay time the attack as in-effect missed. It needs to be tuned so that on average 20 to 35 % of none micro ed Zealot attacks miss when the target moves at the time of the attack. From my experience in Brood War 40 to 60 % of zealot attacks missed. Also, We can increase or decrease the acceleration rate of hydras to allow for the right number of hits to land by none microed Zaelots. With this change Protoss has skill expression of up to 35% more effectiveness with microed Zealots wile not hindering newer starbow players. What about an ability that that is instant, no cooldown, and it gives a buff that empowers only the zealot's next attack by like 1.5 :S | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Already tried. I've spent plenty of time trying out various ways to make the melee micro more fun, satisfying, and skillful. We've already tried dodgeable melee attacks. Proved to be extremely annoying in practice for the players. In BW zealots NEVER MISSED. What happened is that they didn't immediately attack, they have to path up to a target but if said target was currently retreat the zealot would never be able to take the shot, hence the need to micro it. Longer damage points with lower range slop (how far away the target can get without the zealot cancelling his attack and not dealing his damage) was also annoying. One big problem is plainly pathfinding. If you click past or to the side but in front of an enemy unit the zealot will try to path around him, slowing him down in sc2. Makes for really annoying micro in sc2. In BW you have no problem trying to click past an enemy unit, right up to him, or to his side. This made micro solutions so far for the zealot really anti fun compared to the really solid and skillful feeling Zealot micro of BW. Another problem is how slippery pathfinding is for melee fights. Its really hard to block units, everything slips around each other. BW pathfinding made for some really solid feeling fights, where SC2 system feels more frustrating and annoying when the same kind of micro solutions are implemented. If you have any other sugguestions I'd love to hear them. I've made a few different methods myself but the more peoeple who have ideas the more likely we'd be to having an actually nice feeling one. | ||
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WarpTV
205 Posts
suggestion ? One suggestion is to make melee units that are on attack-move command slightly slower than on move command. Just enough so that move command zealots are a tiny bit faster than Hydras can catch up to kiting hydras. Yet, Attack move zealots gate a speed debuff and barely miss kiting Hydras. And it does not have to be a big change in the speed values. Some players may not know at first. We would need to inform them on the OP page. This would let Protoss move command zealots closer to hydras, then attack command until the hydras move again. At the very less, this could be a place holder until you get a more rounded mechanic. Right now It feels like a wast to try and micro against zealots. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On February 02 2014 04:53 WarpTV wrote: @ decemberscalm One suggestion is to make melee units on attack-move command slightly slower than on move command. Just enough so that move command zealots are a tiny bit faster than Hydras can catch up to kiting hydras. Yet, Attack move zealots gate a speed debuff and barely miss kiting Hydras. And it does not have to be a big change in the speed values. This would let Protoss move command zealots closer to hydras, then attack command until the hydras move again. At the very less, this could be a place holder until you get a more rounded mechanic. Right now It feels like a wast to try and micro against zealots. What would happen if you rightclick a probe with a zergling' would that count as attack-move? | ||
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WarpTV
205 Posts
On February 02 2014 05:07 Grumbels wrote: What would happen if you rightclick a probe with a zergling' would that count as attack-move? yes that is attack move, | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
It's weird though, usually when you have a target you can run faster, not slower. | ||
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