EPTMy suggestion: remove the nerve jammer from the science vessel and give them Point Defense Drone instead. PDD would would give terrans a comp that actually answers the Dragoon deathball. Nerve jammer's long activation time and limited area of effect don't cut it (Irradiate on templar or EMP on templar both mitigate vastly more damage by limiting outgoing storms).
[A] Starbow - Page 524
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
My suggestion: remove the nerve jammer from the science vessel and give them Point Defense Drone instead. PDD would would give terrans a comp that actually answers the Dragoon deathball. Nerve jammer's long activation time and limited area of effect don't cut it (Irradiate on templar or EMP on templar both mitigate vastly more damage by limiting outgoing storms). | ||
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
On February 06 2014 03:34 CannonsNCarriers wrote: You will need to make dragoons way worse if you reduce the power of Vulture runbys. The Dragoon A-moves efficiently versus every terran unit. Dragoons with storm support beat all terran comps in a head on fight (if you storm the tanks). The power of the Vulture was very much covering for the inability for the terran army to deal with dragoons. My suggestion: remove the nerve jammer from the science vessel and give them Point Defense Drone instead. PDD would would give terrans a comp that actually answers the Dragoon deathball. Nerve jammer's long activation time and limited area of effect don't cut it (Irradiate on templar or EMP on templar both mitigate vastly more damage by limiting outgoing storms). The dragoon, like the Brood War hydra, is one of those units that SEEMS overpowered because they are jack-of-all-trades mass-able units, but unlike SC2, Starbow has positioning and mid-term splash damage defensive units to deal with it. I think we have to give it time before knowing that a change is needed. Anti-hydra strats took time to develop. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On February 06 2014 04:28 Beef Noodles wrote: The dragoon, like the Brood War hydra, is one of those units that SEEMS overpowered because they are jack-of-all-trades mass-able units, but unlike SC2, Starbow has positioning and mid-term splash damage defensive units to deal with it. I think we have to give it time before knowing that a change is needed. Anti-hydra strats took time to develop. Dragoon and Vulture are definitely the two units that benefits the most from Sbow movement/pathing system relative to BW. You can just take a look at a normal BW game. If 30 + Dragoons were on an a-move command, they would spread them self over a much larger distance, which reduces its effective DPS. The same is relevant for the Vulture, but the Vulture also benefits from the Sbow "moving shot" which doesn't bring the Vulture closer to its target unlike the BW-Vulture. You could argue that the same is relevant for the Hydralisks, but the Hydralisk is much more vulnerable to AOE than the Dragoon and the Vulture is. Though obvioulsy if mass Hydralisks suddenly start to do dominate in TvZ mech then one would need to evaluate whether they would need a small DPS nerf as well (but I kinda doubt it). If we look at stimmed Marines, we actually chose to increase its agiligty (so it became an Sc2-marine) and instead nerfed the Stim from roughly a 70% bonus to a 50% bonus. So in that regard, we kinda took into account that a Marine w/ Sc2 mechanics would be OP w/ BW stats. The same thing should IMO be done with the Dragoon and the Vulture (if there is no change to pathing). You will need to make dragoons way worse if you reduce the power of Vulture runbys. Offensive Spider Mines will get buffed at the same time, so that's not so much of a concern. The DPS nerf I suggested is actally quite significant which means that protoss won't improve its cost efficiciency in straight up battles (as long as you have tank support). | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
I think I did a pretty good job at a faithful BW mine. I frankly think they are slightly better just because they feel less random than BW. In BW, if you a-move a tight knit group of hydras and goons right into mines some times they derp and just waltz into the mine, other times they are for some reason particularly smarter at firing right away and auto defuse them. | ||
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Booom3
Sweden11 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
On February 06 2014 16:41 decemberscalm wrote: I think I did a pretty good job at a faithful BW mine. You did :D | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
It looked like broodwar in 3d(positive). And that map looked like a nice broodwar map to(positive). Someone make a map with that grass, and open area? You also fixed so the vults dont plant all at one spot(like bw). Looks better for the eye(positive). Also cooler to use it as a player(positive) | ||
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
On February 06 2014 16:41 decemberscalm wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGPF748jwBY&feature=youtu.be I think I did a pretty good job at a faithful BW mine. I frankly think they are slightly better just because they feel less random than BW. In BW, if you a-move a tight knit group of hydras and goons right into mines some times they derp and just waltz into the mine, other times they are for some reason particularly smarter at firing right away and auto defuse them. Awesome! The Starbow mines has been one of my biggest gripes with the game. You are doing a great job with this. | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
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Dirtyharry
Germany171 Posts
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Season
United States301 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On February 07 2014 04:01 Season wrote: Mines look good! Will there still be a chance for Terran players to activate them on enemy units or will that be taken away with the improvement? I'm thinking about some sort of manual control for mines. Perhaps the ability to retarget a currently popped mine. Maybe the ability to hit S to stop a really viscous mine drag. Or even a manual detonate in place like the baneling has. I dislike the older spider mine because manual detonation gave it a very odd buff, +range. HotS widow mine retarget makes more sense to me because you're not buffing its capabilities, just giving it a more intelligent order. | ||
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Season
United States301 Posts
On February 07 2014 04:17 decemberscalm wrote: I'm thinking about some sort of manual control for mines. Perhaps the ability to retarget a currently popped mine. Maybe the ability to hit S to stop a really viscous mine drag. Or even a manual detonate in place like the baneling has. I dislike the older spider mine because manual detonation gave it a very odd buff, +range. HotS widow mine retarget makes more sense to me because you're not buffing its capabilities, just giving it a more intelligent order. Yeah this makes sense. Would be fun to play around with and see. You would have to be careful with the manual detonation (if it will be baneling-esque) though because you would not want to be able to damage units that float (vultures, archons, workers, etc) I'd assume | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On February 07 2014 04:34 Season wrote: Yeah this makes sense. Would be fun to play around with and see. You would have to be careful with the manual detonation (if it will be baneling-esque) though because you would not want to be able to damage units that float (vultures, archons, workers, etc) I'd assume Well the difference with this manual detonation is that it would be much more limited. It doesn't shoot a long range away, a unit would have to actually physically walk over it which happens much less often.You're relying on its relatively small aoe, not the big activation range. I can see a few scenarios for it. Detonate on a dt or a hovering unit in rare circumstances. Detonate a tiny bit faster vs hydras or units that could defuse them. Pop on a zealot before he drags a mine straight into your tank. | ||
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
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WarpTV
205 Posts
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Meerel
Germany713 Posts
vote that shit | ||
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[SC]Django
Poland44 Posts
This is bad... | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
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