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On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there
Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^
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On February 06 2011 16:14 Mortality wrote:
I like Hydra, but to be honest, I have a hard time trying to justify him as top 5. If he were displaying this kind of form at a different time, that would be one thing, but right now all of TBLS is strong at the same time, plus you have Fantasy...
But with regards to Hydra, I disagree about there being any kind of quantitative reasoning for his "low" ranking both last month and this month. The main arguments I see are that he's unestablished and that "his opponents always seem to make mistakes that give him the win." That first point is understandable. That second point is a prime example of the qualitative catch-22: is Hydra a "good but not great" player who has had some luck in opponents not playing their fullest, or is Hydra using his own skill to make his opponents look bad? To be thoroughly honest, I think Hydra is the real deal and pretty much any other time I would expect a rank 3 or rank 4 rather than a rank 6, but TBLS has been hot lately so...
Of course, if Hydra manages an upset on JvZ a la Calm, then I will expect his rank to go up.
Oh no no no. I guess I wasn't clear. I agree with you 100% that he's where he deserves to be. Its just that some people seemed to be saying he's not really that good at all, which I happen to disagree with. I certainly wouldn't put him above TBLS at all.
Whoops. :D
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On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^
And you base that upon what?
13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match.
If anything, you're the one being biased.
You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/
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Flash is definitely the favorite over Fantasy, although I feel inclined to say that it's most definitely possible that Fantasy could take him down. Their matches in the past have tended to be very, very close. That match in WL? Their bo5 in MSL last season? Yeah, Flash is a better TvT player -- better all around really -- but Fantasy is not so very far behind, at least when he's playing his best.
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Fantasy is one of the few players you could say ''Ya, he might have a decent chance in a Bo5 vs Flash'' about (the other ones IMO would be JD and Stork, if it's a non-final  ), but a sane person wouldn't really hold him as the favourite, would he?
Flash is favoured against anyone right now (regardless of match-up, which is pretty cool and unique), and that's why he's at #1 on the PR.
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On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/
All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical.
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On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical. He won OSL... and lost to ggaemo and Jaehoon in team leagues. And don't even get me started about his series vs Calm. I turned off the stream the moment he lifted the rax to invite Calm's lurkers in.
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On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical.
The issue is whether or not Fantasy is currently a better player than Flash and it is quite clear that is not the case.
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On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical.
The thing is you say "biased" about the PR and my comment while you actually don't base your own oppinion on anything else than bias of your own. I'm sorry if I came off harsh in my earlier post it was very late.
Any reasonable logic, totally unbiased, would lean towards the conclusion that Flash is the favourite to win such a match.
So you can't use the arguement "others being biased, you're being logical" in this occassion.
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On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical.
It's a POWER rank, not an ELO ranking.
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On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical.
He won OSL but can you really make a case he is currently the BEST player, especially with his lackluster TvZ and poor WL showings? I'm not a Fantasy hater, in fact quite the opposite, but the quality of Flash's play and his PL results have clearly shown, to me, he is #1.
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On February 07 2011 23:33 Demand2k wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical. It's a POWER rank, not an ELO ranking.
Uhm, winning OSL doesn't guarantee ELO #1? I think you better look at how ELO works...
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On February 08 2011 01:25 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 23:33 Demand2k wrote:On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical. It's a POWER rank, not an ELO ranking. Uhm, winning OSL doesn't guarantee ELO #1? I think you better look at how ELO works...
That really just supports his opinion more so
Great rankings - anyone with half a brain would realize Flash is still the strongest player right now - I could really only see Stork or Jaedong taking him down atm, and I would not favor them to do so.
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I was thinking for the power rank--would it make sense not to have it be updated each month, but also force updates if the associated discussion reaches a certain length (e.g. post count of 500 or 800 posts and above)
The advantage is that the power rank would be updated automatically as new controversies erupted, or as new games happen.
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On February 08 2011 05:45 l0st_romantic wrote:
I was thinking for the power rank--would it make sense not to have it be updated each month, but also force updates if the associated discussion reaches a certain length (e.g. post count of 500 or 800 posts and above)
The advantage is that the power rank would be updated automatically as new controversies erupted, or as new games happen.
then it shouldn't be called montly power ranking then? rename it to opinion post counts ranking? This is a bad idea imo.
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woah men... is it just me or this job you do with the PR is awesome? There are so many games... I think you captured it pretty well, congratulations for doing such a (what I consider) pretty darn hard job
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On February 08 2011 05:45 l0st_romantic wrote:
I was thinking for the power rank--would it make sense not to have it be updated each month, but also force updates if the associated discussion reaches a certain length (e.g. post count of 500 or 800 posts and above)
The advantage is that the power rank would be updated automatically as new controversies erupted, or as new games happen.
No, it would be really bad for the PR writers to allow themselves to get bullied to such a high degree by loud fanboys.
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On February 08 2011 01:10 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical. He won OSL but can you really make a case he is currently the BEST player, especially with his lackluster TvZ and poor WL showings? I'm not a Fantasy hater, in fact quite the opposite, but the quality of Flash's play and his PL results have clearly shown, to me, he is #1.
I wouldn't say Fantasy's TvZ lack vitality. It used to be his worst match up and still is in %. But if you only count the last 6 mounts, all his match-ups are fairly close with TvT being the worst. And the reason TvT is his worst match up is because he keeps facing Flash. Fantasy has always been one of the best players in the world. He has always been a threat to every players. He plays with style and he is my favourite player. But I can't call him the Best player in the world. I will have to agree with Flamewheel that Flash deserve the first spot.
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On February 07 2011 17:27 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 11:09 StylishVODs wrote:On February 07 2011 07:10 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 17:38 johanes wrote:On February 06 2011 17:31 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:On February 06 2011 16:02 Bibbit wrote:On February 06 2011 15:42 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
Flash shouldn't be #1 he lost in both past OSL and MSL o_O;; I believe that's why he was #5 in last months PR. He was eliminated last December. It's still debatable whether he truly deserved #1 (people have been doing it the whole thread :O) but you cant really hold his OSL and MSL losses against him anymore. COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE: I really think the Hydra haters are going more on statistics and name of who he beat and lost to (especially his ZvT). Just watch the guy's games, he's quite good. Specifically, watch Hydra vs Classic on Benzene. Some of the strongest midgame ZvT I've seen in a long time and really impressive recovery after some falters in the earlyish late game (if that made any sense at all). Yeah and MSL is still going on? I think getting eliminated from any recent tournament shouldn't put you as #1 in my opinion. ಠ_ಠ maybe you should read flamewheel's reasoning, you might find the answers there Not really. All I read was biased and I am pretty sure Fantasy given the chance again to take down Flash again. He probably could win a box series vs him. ^^ And you base that upon what? 13-5 in encounters and flash is 10-0 in his last ten. Flash is at almost 75% TvT, it's FvT and fantasy doesn't even come close. Thats just comparing records but if you actually watch the games Flash is obviously the favourte to take down fantasy in any form of match. If anything, you're the one being biased. You're pretty sure he'd win? wow:/ All I see is a KT symbol under your name. Of course your going to defend Flash xD. All im saying is since Fantasy won OSL he should be at the top in #1 not really being biased, just logical.
There are many MANY precedents in the power rank for a player winning osl/msl in the relevant month and not being number 1 (including Nada, Jaedong, Calm, July, Mind etc etc).
A starleague win hasn't ever automatically meant a top rank, so maybe it isn't that logical.
For mine Fantasy has been placed too high, I'd have had him at number 5
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Not sure how to preface this properly, but considering the length of time I've been on this site, I guess it's only appropriate for me to comment on one of my favorite (if not my absolute favorite, now that I'm not using the Small VOD Thread as much as I used to  ) threads on TL. This comment has pretty much nothing to do with the current PR, but more of a personal opinion on a debate that seems to spawn in every recent PR: the criteria in the assembly of a particular PR.
I've been around since the inception of the PR on TL, and the two original writers of PR (Etter and FakeSteve) have done a very good job of convincing me of this: strength of play comes before results, and results come before stats. Statistics in and of themselves mean next to nothing, if not nothing at all, if they don't corroborate on the more important factor that is results. Indeed stats can be, and often is, used as evidence to support the writer's interpretation of results, and that's fine, as long as the results are interpreted in a logical manner. After all, the PR is, and always has been, the subjective ranking of someone who is more qualified than the average member of TL to interpret the results and level of play in a logical manner.
Results, on the other hand, definitely do matter. Indeed, the history of the PR has been the delicate balancing act between the two major factors of play and results (my favorite example of this is when FakeSteve was forced to rank Jangbi as #1 on his PR when he absolutely did not believe that Jangbi was the best potential player). As much as level of play probably should trump results in analysis of PR, winning a Starleague must absolutely count for something. How much it should count is up to each writer, but it is important for that writer to keep it consistent in that factor in all the PRs he writes/ will write in the future.
I think the greatest source of conflict that all PR threads have in terms of their disagreement of interpretations is something I would call the 'wild card factor'; it may be more recognizable to label it the 'benefit of the doubt factor', or perhaps the 'how much has this kid proven himself factor'. This is, imo, absolutely nothing more than gut feeling in any scenario, and as such, its degree of credibility is only dependent upon how well the writer explains himself in his justifications. Again, it's important to be consistent in the justifications, of course.
Again, this was not any sort of commentary on this particular PR or any other one. I just felt I needed to make my stand on the interpretation of the PR.
GJ Flamewheel, I wish you the best of luck on your future PRs! 
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|
|
60894
4942
362
EPT
