| Rank |
Player |
Prev |
High |
Description |
| 1. |
Bisu
(P) (stats) |
0 |
1 |
Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah. Bisu wears his crown so fashionably. Yes, he lost to Mind, but that is the only series in the last three months wherein he didn't play like the best goddamned player on earth. His heroic comeback in game 2 of his series against Savior and his brutal domination of the third knocked the wind out of any doubt that Bisu is anything but the reigning world champ. |
| 2. |
sAviOr
(Z) (stats) |
+1 |
1 |
Savior lost to Mind too, but he also pushed Bisu farther than Bisu has ever been pushed in a PvZ series. Watch the second and third games of the Savior/Bisu series and honestly tell me that any other Protoss in the world could have won those games. You can't, because no other Protoss could. Savior's ZvT remains suspect only because he used to be untouchable, but had he sealed up the series against Bisu, we'd have seen a Savior OSL Final appearance without a shadow of a doubt. There's no player that has performed as consistantly this month, besides Bisu of course. |
| 3. |
Stork[gm]
(P) (stats) |
+1 |
1 |
Stork grabs the third spot because he's had a good month. He breezed through his OSL group and dismantled the little babyface Flash once again. After bringing Bisu so close to destruction in their MSL final meeting, it's ridiculous to think Stork stands no chance in their upcoming OSL semifinal match. Like the players above him, Stork will have to be knocked off in order to fall significantly. |
| 4. |
Jaedong
(Z) (stats) |
+1 |
1 |
Ahhh, Jaedong. This is Jaedong's OSL breakout. He creamed Light, and with Hwasin gone, he's basically a lock for the OSL final. This is the draw we've been waiting to see this little man mangle. If he can step up his ZvP and if Stork takes out Bisu, Jaedong has a legitimate chance at the OSL title. A loss or two in ProLeague amidst preparation for OSL doesn't fool me. |
| 5. |
Inter.Mind
(T) (stats) |
- |
3 |
Last month I said I had my eye on Mania and Mind. I called for them to step up and show me something incredible. Mind answered that call. His macro isn't earth-shattering, his micro isn't mind-boggling, but Mind's game sense is top fucking notch. He proved to me (and everyone else) that he's a force to be reckoned with, and if he can show me this isn't just a flash in the pan, Mind has nowhere to go but up. For now he sits below Jaedong, because there's very little that suggests Mind would be capable of standing in his way. |
| 6. |
Hwasin
(T) (stats) |
-4 |
2 |
Hwasin hasn't been playing as well as we're accustomed to. Still, you'd be a fool to think he isn't going to wreck everyone that stands in the way of another MSL/OSL double berth. It's too early to tell if this is a bump in the road or the beginning of a downfall, and while it sure ain't pretty, Hwasin is still currently one of the best Terrans on the planet. |
| 7. |
Sea.Up
(T) (stats) |
- |
6 |
UpMagic, like Mind, needed to show something special to break into the Power Rank. He certainly did just that. Not only did he beat Hwasin, but he beat Hwasin with solid, standard play. Game 3 of their series is the best TvT I've ever seen UpMagic play. However, Hwasin would fare a much better chance against Jaedong than UpMagic can hope for, and he's still useless against Protoss. Since this is Power Rank, not Who-Won-The-Series Rank, UpMagic sits lower than Hwasin because Hwasin's TvZ and TvP are fearsome. Credit is due, however. UpMagic's elevated play against Hwasin in an OSL round of 8 earns him his spot on the Power Rank. Only time will tell if his success is fleeting. |
| 8. |
Light[aLive]
(T) (stats) |
-1 |
2 |
All right, let's face it. Light got mangled by Jaedong. His saving grace is that any Terran would probably get mangled by Jaedong. This was a fairly successful OSL run on Light's part, and with a different draw its entirely possible that he would have advanced further. A loss against impossible odds won't make me give up on Light just yet, though he'll have to remain competitive to retain this spot. |
| 9. |
Sea[Shield]
(T) (stats) |
0 |
1 |
I said Sea would mangle his OSC group, and he did. There isn't a single player left in OSC that could sensibly be called a favorite over Sea, because his play right now is devastating. Sea's ProLeague presence isn't as big this season, which leads me to believe there is much more preparation going into his individual league performances. He'll need results to climb the Rank, but a Power Rank without Sea would just be foolish with how good he's playing right now. |
| 10. |
Much[gm]
(P) (stats) |
- |
4 |
I loathe using TLPD stats to enforce Power Rank spots, but I feel this is worth mentioning: Much is on a ten game winning streak, dating back to early October. 5-0 in November, Much is playing like he's hungry for OSL group stages once again. His games were agaisnt Chalrenge, GoGo, free, Stork, and GoRush. Not the best of the best, but hardly third-rate chumps. The most important thing to note is that Much's overall play is better than everyone except the nine players above him. It wouldn't be fair to give the tenth spot to anyone else. |
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Close but no cigar:
Anytime - Anytime's ProLeague record is still strong, and he made it through Survivor, but he's 3-4 in November, and his only wins are against third-rate chumps. Anytime doesn't have the spark he showed a month ago, so he drops off. He'll need to bring that spark back.
Iris - Iris failed his only task this month: pass group stage of OSL. He could have advanced from the tiebreakers, but played a horrible game against July which forced a rematch. Eventually Hwasin made it through, and Iris drops off Power Rank.
Free - free's games lately have been utter disappointments, barring one PvP against Bisu. One good game per month doesn't put you on the Power Rank, bucko.
Flash - Flash's deal is basically squeaking past group stages in OSL and then losing to the first good player he faces in the bracket rounds. This kid will have to do something to show me he has a legitimate shot at a final before he sees Power Rank time.
There are a multitude of players who are performing well lately (Yarnc for example), but simply aren't playing as well as the top ten. The four players I mentioned specifically are just the most relevant to the currently running tournaments. I'm not going to justify every player's absence because I don't have all goddamned day. So there!
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Savior lost to Mind too, but he also pushed Bisu farther than Bisu has ever been pushed in a PvZ series. Watch the second and third games of the Savior/Bisu series and honestly tell me that any other Protoss in the world could have won those games.
Excuse me? I am sorry to dismiss your judgment but this is absolutely absurd. I've watched games 2 and 3 over and over, at least 10 times now, trying to convince myself that they were actually good, close games. They weren't. Much to my dismay, Bisu destroyed Savior - again.
In game 2, yes Bisu did lose his back expansion. But do you know how many overlords Savior lost that game? At Least Twenty-Three!!!. Savior exceeded 60 supply only momentarily in the game, and aside from the initial drop, was never able to gain control of the game flow. He was consistently choked for supply space due to losing overlords, and as a consequence had over 1000 gas yet no minerals.
Just look at his supply count to cap ratio ~24 minutes into the vod. Savior goes from 68 supply cap to 100, despite having only 50 units and getting hammered at his 3rd base?? What kind of zerg player, who is in any semblance of control of the game, has a gap of over 50 between his supply value and supply count?
Bisu was hitting Savior everywhere, constantly forcing Savior to move his units out of position for the next attack. Savior lost his 4th base to just a half-group of zealots, and his attempts at cracking Bisu's front door looked desperate and unwise.
I reiterate that after Savior's first drop, he NEVER had any chance of taking that game.
In game 3 Savior never so much as touched Bisu's economy while Bisu was frying his drones repeatedly. His 3 attempts to damage Bisu's expansions utterly failed, first at the mineral only, then at the nat, and finally at the island. Even when Savior looked decent after deflecting Bisu's army with swarm and cracklings, he was never able to get to within even FIFTY supply of Bisu all the way until he tapped out. Said army was destroyed by Bisu's next wave, and 3 minutes later we'd see Savior losing everything in an all-in drop at 5 o'clock.
While he managed to save his overlords midgame this time, he nevertheless lost nearly 30 drones (yes, I counted them) to templar drops. Savior was extremely strapped for gas all game and consistently had over 1500 minerals, even when he typed out.
I don't have anything against Savior being #2, but the suggestion that games 2 and 3 were even remotely closely contested is inconceivable to me.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 01 2007 20:16 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +Savior lost to Mind too, but he also pushed Bisu farther than Bisu has ever been pushed in a PvZ series. Watch the second and third games of the Savior/Bisu series and honestly tell me that any other Protoss in the world could have won those games. Excuse me? I am sorry to dismiss your judgment but this is absolutely absurd. I've watched games 2 and 3 over and over, at least 10 times now, trying to convince myself that they were actually good, close games. They weren't. Much to my dismay, Bisu destroyed Savior - again. In game 2, yes Bisu did lose his back expansion. But do you know how many overlords Savior lost that game? At Least Twenty-Three!!!. Savior exceeded 60 supply only momentarily in the game, and aside from the initial drop, was never able to gain control of the game flow. He was consistently choked for supply space due to losing overlords, and as a consequence had over 1000 gas yet no minerals. Just look at his supply count to cap ratio ~24 minutes into the vod. Savior goes from 68 supply cap to 100, despite having only 50 units and getting hammered at his 3rd base?? What kind of zerg player, who is in any semblance of control of the game, has a gap of over 50 between his supply value and supply count? Bisu was hitting Savior everywhere, constantly forcing Savior to move his units out of position for the next attack. Savior lost his 4th base to just a half-group of zealots, and his attempts at cracking Bisu's front door looked desperate and unwise. I reiterate that after Savior's first drop, he NEVER had any chance of taking that game. In game 3 Savior never so much as touched Bisu's economy while Bisu was frying his drones repeatedly. His 3 attempts to damage Bisu's expansions utterly failed, first at the mineral only, then at the nat, and finally at the island. Even when Savior looked decent after deflecting Bisu's army with swarm and cracklings, he was never able to get to within even FIFTY supply of Bisu all the way until he tapped out. Said army was destroyed by Bisu's next wave, and 3 minutes later we'd see Savior losing everything in an all-in drop at 5 o'clock. While he managed to save his overlords midgame this time, he nevertheless lost nearly 30 drones (yes, I counted them) to templar drops. Savior was extremely strapped for gas all game and consistently had over 1500 minerals, even when he typed out. I don't have anything against Savior being #2, but the suggestion that games 2 and 3 were even remotely closely contested is inconceivable to me.
Okay, I'll explain this very clearly. If this was in person I'd talk reaaaal sloooow liiiike thiiiiiiiis~
I didn't say Savior was close to winning those games. I said any Protoss besides Bisu would not have won those games. This is indisputable.
In game 2, Bisu had lost his nat nexus and was on the brink of death before his corsair heroics and perfectly timed Zealot attacks pulled him even. This is the closest Bisu has EVER been pushes to elimination in a PvZ series. This is indisputable.
In that second game, any protoss besides Bisu would not execute the overlord, zealot, and reaver harass in a manner that allows them to win a game in which they have one base to four. Bisu, however, does happen to be Bisu.
In the third game, Savior defended Bisu's early harass flawlessly, and as a result his economy was in full juggernaut mode. However, Bisu's inhuman multitasking allowed him ridiculous macro while simultaneously harassing with corsairs, storm drops, and reavers. No other protoss on earth is capable of multitasking to that level. No other protoss on earth would be able to stop Savior once his economy hit the peak it hit in that game. Not a single one.
I didn't suggest that Savior played better than Bisu and I certainly didn't suggest that Savior had it in the bag but totally fucked up. Bisu completely outplayed Savior in those two games, but no other Protoss would have pulled off those wins. Not a fucking chance.
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United States7488 Posts
I thought game two seemed close, at least for a while. Savior definitely made it interesting. But I would have to agree with haji that when I was watching the third game, and only about five minutes or so into it I was thinking that there was no way Savior was going to pull out the win.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Again, I didn't say Savior was going to win that game. I said that no other protoss could hope to be as far ahead as Bisu was during that game, because no one else has that level of multitasking ability.
The third game is inconsequential to the statement 'savior pushed bisu farther than he's ever been pushed before in a pvz series'
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Braavos36362 Posts
Just a clarification, it wasn't 1 base to 4, Savior had literally no drones mining at 2.5 of his bases, so let's not get carried away with how ahead Savior was that game.
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On December 01 2007 20:16 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +Savior lost to Mind too, but he also pushed Bisu farther than Bisu has ever been pushed in a PvZ series. Watch the second and third games of the Savior/Bisu series and honestly tell me that any other Protoss in the world could have won those games. Excuse me? I am sorry to dismiss your judgment but this is absolutely absurd. I've watched games 2 and 3 over and over, at least 10 times now, trying to convince myself that they were actually good, close games. They weren't. Much to my dismay, Bisu destroyed Savior - again. In game 2, yes Bisu did lose his back expansion. But do you know how many overlords Savior lost that game? At Least Twenty-Three!!!. Savior exceeded 60 supply only momentarily in the game, and aside from the initial drop, was never able to gain control of the game flow. He was consistently choked for supply space due to losing overlords, and as a consequence had over 1000 gas yet no minerals. Just look at his supply count to cap ratio ~24 minutes into the vod. Savior goes from 68 supply cap to 100, despite having only 50 units and getting hammered at his 3rd base?? What kind of zerg player, who is in any semblance of control of the game, has a gap of over 50 between his supply value and supply count? Bisu was hitting Savior everywhere, constantly forcing Savior to move his units out of position for the next attack. Savior lost his 4th base to just a half-group of zealots, and his attempts at cracking Bisu's front door looked desperate and unwise. I reiterate that after Savior's first drop, he NEVER had any chance of taking that game. In game 3 Savior never so much as touched Bisu's economy while Bisu was frying his drones repeatedly. His 3 attempts to damage Bisu's expansions utterly failed, first at the mineral only, then at the nat, and finally at the island. Even when Savior looked decent after deflecting Bisu's army with swarm and cracklings, he was never able to get to within even FIFTY supply of Bisu all the way until he tapped out. Said army was destroyed by Bisu's next wave, and 3 minutes later we'd see Savior losing everything in an all-in drop at 5 o'clock. While he managed to save his overlords midgame this time, he nevertheless lost nearly 30 drones (yes, I counted them) to templar drops. Savior was extremely strapped for gas all game and consistently had over 1500 minerals, even when he typed out. I don't have anything against Savior being #2, but the suggestion that games 2 and 3 were even remotely closely contested is inconceivable to me.
yeah the games weren really close, BUT u have to take into consideration that savior went for all-in hydra shenanigans in both games. In game 2 he forced a cpl minutes where it really was close (when he had hyds in bisus base and killed nexus) and anybody could have taken the game at that point. Game 3 though he went for a predictable and eventually probe-scouted hydra timing bo, which was dumb². Against bisu u pretty much auto-lose at that point. I think he put up a pretty good fight considering he already lost when the probe scouted his 3 hatching hydras. But yeah it wasnt really close. Still I would say Savior played better than last time they met, he just chose VERY bad strategies in game 2 and 3. Im sad he never went for that Mass expo mass muta strat or tried his good old defensive outmacro style... He was too agressive and paid for it.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 01 2007 20:27 Hot_Bid wrote:
Just a clarification, it wasn't 1 base to 4, Savior had literally no drones mining at 2.5 of his bases, so let's not get carried away with how ahead Savior was that game.
The fact remains that the series was the closest Bisu has ever come to losing a PvZ best-of-X, which is the point in dispute
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Braavos36362 Posts
In the third game, Savior defended Bisu's early harass flawlessly, and as a result his economy was in full juggernaut mode.
I disagree. Flawlessly would be killing the shuttle, reaver or at least a few of the corsairs. Flawlessly would be defending it but maintaining enough offense to at least delay Bisu's island expo. Savior did not do any of this. The point of the early harass is two fold, to kill drones and ovies but also keep Savior in his base as Bisu took his third.
If you harass with mutas and kill no SCVs (because I built 80 turrets, or have inhuman mm control, whatever), but I kill no mutas and let you take 2 expos, did I defend your harass "flawlessly?" Absolutely not.
On December 01 2007 20:32 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2007 20:27 Hot_Bid wrote:
Just a clarification, it wasn't 1 base to 4, Savior had literally no drones mining at 2.5 of his bases, so let's not get carried away with how ahead Savior was that game. The fact remains that the series was the closest Bisu has ever come to losing a PvZ best-of-X, which is the point in dispute
First, I'm not arguing on that point, I said "just a clarification." I'm not Haji, I'm just stating an inaccurate point in your analysis. Bisu was not that far behind in that game, he traded his bottom nexus for like 12 ovies. That's all I'm saying, that "1 base to 4" is simply inaccurate, as a full saturated mining base P vs 1.5 mining base Z is far far different than true 1:4. Surely you can see how this point is separate from "Bisu has never come closer to losing a PvZ series."
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United States7488 Posts
Good job on the power rank by the way! I agree with all the players that are on it, though there are a couple that I might move up or down maybe one rank, but then again, I probably haven't looked at it as extensively as you.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 01 2007 20:32 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +In the third game, Savior defended Bisu's early harass flawlessly, and as a result his economy was in full juggernaut mode. I disagree. Flawlessly would be killing the shuttle, reaver or at least a few of the corsairs. Flawlessly would be defending it but maintaining enough offense to at least delay Bisu's island expo. Savior did not do any of this. The point of the early harass is two fold, to kill drones and ovies but also keep Savior in his base as Bisu took his third. If you harass with mutas and kill no SCVs (because I built 80 turrets, or have inhuman mm control, whatever), but I kill no mutas and let you take 2 expos, did I defend your harass "flawlessly?" Absolutely not. Show nested quote +On December 01 2007 20:32 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On December 01 2007 20:27 Hot_Bid wrote:
Just a clarification, it wasn't 1 base to 4, Savior had literally no drones mining at 2.5 of his bases, so let's not get carried away with how ahead Savior was that game. The fact remains that the series was the closest Bisu has ever come to losing a PvZ best-of-X, which is the point in dispute First, I'm not arguing on that point, I said "just a clarification." I'm not Haji, I'm just stating an inaccurate point in your analysis. Bisu was not that far behind in that game, he traded his bottom nexus for like 12 ovies. That's all I'm saying, not that the series didn't push Bisu far.
Do you want to argue semantics some more?
These are the facts:
Bisu was dangerously close to losing that second game
Bisu has never been that close to losing a PvZ series
This is what was disputed, but its indisputable. Everything else was brought up to nullify the notion that any old Protoss could have recovered from the deficit presented in that second game, including the things I said about the third game which are a testament to Bisu's superiority to other Protoss players.
Do you really want to argue the definition of "flawless"?
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Braavos36362 Posts
In the third game, Savior defended Bisu's early harass flawlessly, and as a result his economy was in full juggernaut mode.
It's not a semantical argument, the harass was designed to keep Savior in his base. You say he defended it "flawlessly" and even if you didn't mean true perfection, you mean that Savior defended to a point where it was advantageous for Savior. Your statement implies Savior came out ahead after defending early harass. I disagree with this.
At best, Savior's defense of Bisu's early harass was a wash, no player came out with advantage. This is because Savior did not manage to kill corsairs or the shuttle or reaver, and allowed Bisu to take a 3rd gas unmolested.
Though I suspect Bisu, even if he killed no drones, managed to get a few ovies and secure a 3rd at virtually no cost, which is an advantage for him.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On December 01 2007 20:26 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
The third game is inconsequential to the statement 'savior pushed bisu farther than he's ever been pushed before in a pvz series
.
The fact remains that the series was the closest Bisu has ever come to losing a PvZ best-of-X, which is the point in dispute'
If you claim that the contents of the 3rd game are irrelevant to 'bisu being pushed farther than ever in a pvz series', (thereby not hinging your argument on how close the matches were gameplay wise - which you yourself have admitted that savior came nowhere close to defeating bisu) and base your argument on the "how deep" a series went, then your claim would be even more incorrect than otherwise.
So Savior got Bisu to 1-1 heading into a 3rd game.
Let's look back....
+ 06-07-20 MBC Survivor 8th The Eye (Z)Rumble Win
+ 06-07-20 MBC Survivor 8th Arcadia (Z)Rumble Loss
+ 06-05-23 MBC Survivor 8th 815 III (Z)Silver Loss
+ 06-09-28 MBC Survivor 9th Longinus (Z)ToSky[S.G] Loss
+ 06-09-28 MBC Survivor 9th Blitz (Z)ToSky[S.G] Win
+ 06-09-28 MBC Survivor 9th Sin Peaks of Bae.. (Z)ToSky[S.G] Win
+ 07-04-11 ODT2007-1 Hitchhiker (Z)Child Win
+ 07-04-11 ODT2007-1 Longinus 2 (Z)Child Loss
+ 07-04-11 ODT2007-1 Neo Arkanoid (Z)Child Win
+ 07-07-01 GOMTV MSL S2 Monty Hall (Z)GoRush Win
+ 07-07-01 GOMTV MSL S2 Desperado (Z)GoRush Win
+ 07-07-01 GOMTV MSL S2 Python (Z)GoRush Loss
+ 07-07-01 GOMTV MSL S2 Loki (Z)GoRush Win
Three times, Bisu has been pushed to a 3rd game in a bo3 series, and Gorush also made a series 1-1 going into a 3rd game. Unless you are going to try to wiggle your way out by claiming "Bisu wasn't Bisu yet in mid-2006", your statistical claim is simply false. And even if you do make the claim that Bisu was still not his bonjwa self, it will not make a difference in demonstrating that your all-inclusive claim that "the series was the closest Bisu has ever come to losing a PvZ best-of-X" is untrue.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
First, a Survivor group from over a year ago is hardly relevant
Second, Bisu was nowhere near losing either of his games to Tosky, and similarily dominated Child in their third game. The GoRush series was a complete drubbing, why are you mentioning it?
Being one game away from losing a series and being on the edge of destruction in an elimination game are two entirely different things, come on. This is Power Rank, not TLPD Rank. Statistical analyses of wins and losses doesn't clear cut anything.
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Braavos36362 Posts
Also, I agree with you, FakeSteve, that this was the farthest he's been pushed. All those statistics are great Haji, but we really are talking about current Bisu, the PvZ monster, not old Bisu, who likely lost series in the PSL trying to qualify for Survivor.
And the Child and GoRush series were definitely not as close as the Savior one. The GoRush one is not even worth debating, and in the Child one, at no point in the two "elimination" games (on HH and Arkanoid) did Child have Bisu in trouble. Savior at one point in the game on Katrina did, though it was not as bad as 4:1 base as FakeSteve said.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
I will concede that i should have clarified that four bases to one didn't mean 'four bases full of drones to one base full of probes', but it sure doesn't make a difference to my point.
Satisfied?
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
So you are now using the contents of games rather than statistical facts like you initially claimed in order to defend your statement - the exact thing you said you were not going to do?
And as Hotbid has presented, whether or not Bisu was truly "at the brink of elimination" is clearly debatable. And with these two sides combined, your "indisputable" claim falls apart and becomes, at best, unclear.
Hopefully this will, at the least, teach you never to use "this is indisputable" - because everything is, by definition, disputable. By making absolute statements you simply invite problems like this that could have been avoided. Simply changing "closest ever" to something along the lines of "closest in recent times" has a dramatic effect on how "indisputable" your claim becomes.
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let's kill fakesteve!!!!!!!!!
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 01 2007 20:48 thedeadhaji wrote:
So you are now using the contents of games rather than statistical facts like you initially claimed in order to defend your statement - the exact thing you said you were not going to do?
Excuse me? Not once did I use statistical facts. The statement that Bisu has never been so close to elimination is based around the events of that second game, not the fact that Bisu was down 0-1 going into it.
And as Hotbid has presented, whether or not Bisu was truly "at the brink of elimination" is clearly debatable. And with these two sides combined, your "indisputable" claim falls apart and becomes, at best, unclear.
Hopefully this will, at the least, teach you never to use "this is indisputable" - because everything is, by definition, disputable. By making absolute statements you simply invite problems like this that could have been avoided. Simply changing "closest ever" to something along the lines of "closest in recent times" has a dramatic effect on how "indisputable" your claim becomes.
come on man i really like that word
And yeah, he was at the brink of elimination
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EPT
