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First, I want to thank the guys, who made this review. It takes a ton of effort and time to do something like that.
Now, while I don´t want to beat a dead horse, I still want to share my opinion about the international team award.
I´m completely fine with Mousesports not winning the award, because you can look at it from different viewpoints. If you go by individual results, then EG should probably win it, if you go by positive influence in the international scene, then it is probably Liquid and lastly if you go by team results, it is without a doubt Mouz.
My problem is, that Mousesports was not even nominated, hell it was not even mentioned. No honorable mention, not a single sentence. You shouldn´t make a international team award and then completely neglect actual team results. Mousesports absolutely dominated these tournaments and could even stand up to premier Korean teams. Add to that, that aside of Empire Mouz is the single top class team without Koreans, you shouldn´t be surprised by a backlash of the community. Because completely ignoring Mouz achievements shows either ignorance or bias. And going by the normal quality of the front page articles, it is probably the latter.
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Awesome write up! I love these awards, would really love to see a BW one :D
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On January 02 2012 05:05 Sphaero wrote:
First, I want to thank the guys, who made this review. It takes a ton of effort and time to do something like that.
Now, while I don´t want to beat a dead horse, I still want to share my opinion about the international team award.
I´m completely fine with Mousesports not winning the award, because you can look at it from different viewpoints. If you go by individual results, then EG should probably win it, if you go by positive influence in the international scene, then it is probably Liquid and lastly if you go by team results, it is without a doubt Mouz.
My problem is, that Mousesports was not even nominated, hell it was not even mentioned. No honorable mention, not a single sentence. You shouldn´t make a international team award and then completely neglect actual team results. Mousesports absolutely dominated these tournaments and could even stand up to premier Korean teams. Add to that, that aside of Empire Mouz is the single top class team without Koreans, you shouldn´t be surprised by a backlash of the community. Because completely ignoring Mouz achievements shows either ignorance or bias. And going by the normal quality of the front page articles, it is probably the latter.
weLl said!
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EG and TL team of the year...Bias <3
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On January 02 2012 05:05 Sphaero wrote:
First, I want to thank the guys, who made this review. It takes a ton of effort and time to do something like that.
Now, while I don´t want to beat a dead horse, I still want to share my opinion about the international team award.
I´m completely fine with Mousesports not winning the award, because you can look at it from different viewpoints. If you go by individual results, then EG should probably win it, if you go by positive influence in the international scene, then it is probably Liquid and lastly if you go by team results, it is without a doubt Mouz.
My problem is, that Mousesports was not even nominated, hell it was not even mentioned. No honorable mention, not a single sentence. You shouldn´t make a international team award and then completely neglect actual team results. Mousesports absolutely dominated these tournaments and could even stand up to premier Korean teams. Add to that, that aside of Empire Mouz is the single top class team without Koreans, you shouldn´t be surprised by a backlash of the community. Because completely ignoring Mouz achievements shows either ignorance or bias. And going by the normal quality of the front page articles, it is probably the latter.
Yeah, i think Mouz should have been nominated too.
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United States5770 Posts
Awesome article, great read, but I find it absolutely despicable that antiga was a nominee for best map, and sad as well that dual sight was the other. For shame! Easily the worst, most inaccurate section of the awards.
Terminus?
Calm before the storm?
Crevasse?
Katrina?
Cloud kingdom?
All infinitely better picks imo.... I suppose you can argue for dual sight even though it was imbalanced because we saw some great games on it, but antiga shipyard is only good compared to all other blizzard maps. Compared to gsl and custom maps, antiga is garbage.
A shame, but the quality of the rest of the article makes up for it. Still, it's a detail I'd like to see improved in the future.
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On January 01 2012 23:21 Badfatpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:On January 01 2012 22:53 nimdil wrote:On January 01 2012 17:25 SovietHammer wrote:On January 01 2012 14:51 Cynthesis wrote:On January 01 2012 14:36 Bumblebee wrote:On January 01 2012 14:34 Cynthesis wrote:
I disagree with the tie for team of the year. EG has the most golds out of any foreigner team (and in my personal opinion) the better line up. But I respect your opionon. They do? Please line it up for me. EG - Axslav, Demuslim, Idra, Incontrol, Huk, Machine, Puma, StrifeCro, JYP Liquid - Tyler, TLO, Jinro, Haypro, Ret, Sheth, Hero, Zenio 2011 1st Places Liquid (3) Ret Assembly Winter, Battle.net European Invitational Hero - Dreamhack Winter EG (7) Idra - IPL 1, IEM China Huk - Dreamhack Summer, MLG Orlando Puma - NASL 1, 2, IEM Cologne As much as I root for TL and dislike EG, I agree that EG is clearly the top foreign team. For reference you can check here: Liquipedia2 But see, that's Liquipedia so it clearly must be SUPER BIASED. God forbid TL gets nominated or an award for anything on teamliquid.net. -_- Dude, 1/3 of both teams achievements are from last year on that page and Mouz is still beating both of them...?
+Puma wasnt even on EG when he won NASL 1 and i think Huk was on TL when he won Dreamhack summer and homestory right?
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Yeah, none of these are really controversial except for the foreign team of the year I guess, which really should have been a tie between Mouz and EG, not Liquid and EG.
Also: Titan is awesome. Look forward to seeing him in the future.
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On January 02 2012 05:13 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 05:05 Sphaero wrote:
First, I want to thank the guys, who made this review. It takes a ton of effort and time to do something like that.
Now, while I don´t want to beat a dead horse, I still want to share my opinion about the international team award.
I´m completely fine with Mousesports not winning the award, because you can look at it from different viewpoints. If you go by individual results, then EG should probably win it, if you go by positive influence in the international scene, then it is probably Liquid and lastly if you go by team results, it is without a doubt Mouz.
My problem is, that Mousesports was not even nominated, hell it was not even mentioned. No honorable mention, not a single sentence. You shouldn´t make a international team award and then completely neglect actual team results. Mousesports absolutely dominated these tournaments and could even stand up to premier Korean teams. Add to that, that aside of Empire Mouz is the single top class team without Koreans, you shouldn´t be surprised by a backlash of the community. Because completely ignoring Mouz achievements shows either ignorance or bias. And going by the normal quality of the front page articles, it is probably the latter. Yeah, i think Mouz should have been nominated too.
I'm a HUGE fanboy of Tyler, but shit.. If I were Mouz, I would have said the same damn thing on twitter. I appreciate Tyler's response, too, however. It's just I think I'd be just as bitter if I were Mouz about not even getting a mention. It was a bit of a slap in the face.. I'm inclined to believe it was intentional--but, whatever.
OP:
"That, and we don't want to pick TL and get yelled at by our readers for bias, or pick EG and get yelled at by our readers for meta-bias."
Or get yelled at by your readers for entirely ignoring... Mouz.. ffs. 
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Awesome article, enjoyed the read, thanks TL
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On January 02 2012 05:20 KinQuh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 23:21 Badfatpanda wrote:On January 01 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:On January 01 2012 22:53 nimdil wrote:On January 01 2012 17:25 SovietHammer wrote:On January 01 2012 14:51 Cynthesis wrote:On January 01 2012 14:36 Bumblebee wrote:On January 01 2012 14:34 Cynthesis wrote:
I disagree with the tie for team of the year. EG has the most golds out of any foreigner team (and in my personal opinion) the better line up. But I respect your opionon. They do? Please line it up for me. EG - Axslav, Demuslim, Idra, Incontrol, Huk, Machine, Puma, StrifeCro, JYP Liquid - Tyler, TLO, Jinro, Haypro, Ret, Sheth, Hero, Zenio 2011 1st Places Liquid (3) Ret Assembly Winter, Battle.net European Invitational Hero - Dreamhack Winter EG (7) Idra - IPL 1, IEM China Huk - Dreamhack Summer, MLG Orlando Puma - NASL 1, 2, IEM Cologne As much as I root for TL and dislike EG, I agree that EG is clearly the top foreign team. For reference you can check here: Liquipedia2 But see, that's Liquipedia so it clearly must be SUPER BIASED. God forbid TL gets nominated or an award for anything on teamliquid.net. -_- Dude, 1/3 of both teams achievements are from last year on that page and Mouz is still beating both of them...? +Puma wasnt even on EG when he won NASL 1 and i think Huk was on TL when he won Dreamhack summer and homestory right?
So that puts Liquid at 5 and EG at 4?
Also I (badly) worked out the prize winnings of both teams and can up with
TL: 142k
EG: 137k
I'm sure there were a few errors but it seems about even  . And I used sc2earnings.com which doesn't take into account team leagues, not sure how that affects things
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On the front page of reddit.com./r/starcraft
Mouz claims EG is miles ahead of Liquid in team comparison
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lJOxM.png)
Original Post (Click)
I still think EG-Mouz rivalry of the year. I dont know much about the TL-EG one but Mouz and EG continue to make posts insulting one another.
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A twitter rivalry does not compare to legit rivalry between players at major tournaments
I don't understand how anyone could think it does
Speaking of twitter that is kind of a classless comment from mousesports. It is entirely expected that forum posters will bicker about this kind of thing, but I don't see why they would want to participate in that silliness
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On January 02 2012 05:40 Phayt wrote:
A twitter rivalry does not compare to legit rivalry between players at major tournaments
I don't understand how anyone could think it does
Speaking of twitter that is kind of a classless comment from mousesports. It is entirely expected that forum posters will bicker about this kind of thing, but I don't see why they would want to participate in that silliness
I disagree. I'd have the same reaction if I were Mouz; class would have been to have nominated them (or OBVIOUSLY have at least mentioned them) in the team award.
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Good write-up.
I have to agree with the posters who missed mouz as a nominee for the team award. I missed a number of teams, such as:
complexity
Fnatic
dignitas
mousesports
Yes we know EG or TL might be the best, but the least you can do is show some appreciation for other teams by nominating them.
Happy New Year!
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On January 01 2012 23:49 Infernux wrote:
I would describe the teams like this. Team Liquid is like Manchester United (it's a soccer team, fyi), they have a flow within the team and they feel... complete, but also welcoming to new players. They are used to winning and have some great players, but also a lot of talent.
EG would be more like Manchester City (please mind that EG has won more than City compared to United), a bought team (also, this is a bit far out, but with HuK, JYP and PuMa, come on...) with less flow and feel between the players, more like a place to get rich and get their best shots at being the best, for all the wrong reasons (I'm still a little upset about the HuK thing, mind you).
Now, mind you, this is how I feel. In my 1.5 years in the SC2 esport scene (as a watcher and low league player) TL is the team I have felt the most connected too, because of their ethics, standards and how the players present themselves, in interviews, on lans and in general when meeting their fans.
Also, WhiteRa for most creative player. Boom.
Make ManCity into Chelsea and you might have a match...Tradition and the feeling of connection you've described is not something you can create by not buying the best players possible when you have the chance. It takes time for the fans to get used to a team on the scene having success they haven't had before. Keeping the football analogy, Real Madrid is basically doing the same thing, yet have a huge fanbase and great success by tradition created in time. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
Also if we regard SC as a common competitive sport - and I think that is the goal of any e-sport - there'll always be only one winner at the end of each tournament (team or person, but let's not get hung up on that) and every player wants to be that one. Ultimately, no one will remember the nice, loyal guy, who stayed with the same team, always placing 27th at the qualifiers, so I don't think any player should be frowned upon for trying to make their chances better at winning. There can be a number of reasons for joining another team and in my opinion better salary itself is valid enough, but that's just me.
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On January 02 2012 05:36 CakeMaster wrote:On the front page of reddit.com./r/starcraft Mouz claims EG is miles ahead of Liquid in team comparison Original Post (Click) I still think EG-Mouz rivalry of the year. I dont know much about the TL-EG one but Mouz and EG continue to make posts insulting one another.
Dude that wasn't a rivalry. It was one episode of twitter smack talk. How the hell does that make rivalry of the year in anyway.
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Loved this! Such a great years for SC2, and Esports in general. Happy New Year to everyone!
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On January 02 2012 05:43 DueSs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 05:40 Phayt wrote:
A twitter rivalry does not compare to legit rivalry between players at major tournaments
I don't understand how anyone could think it does
Speaking of twitter that is kind of a classless comment from mousesports. It is entirely expected that forum posters will bicker about this kind of thing, but I don't see why they would want to participate in that silliness
I disagree. I'd have the same reaction if I were Mouz; class would have been to have nominated them (or OBVIOUSLY have at least mentioned them) in the team award.
They didn't complain about not being mentioned. They complained about the tie between TL and EG (and whoever wrote that tweet demonstrated his inability to count).
It's very classless and worded in a very much dick way. Whoever is behind that twitter is pissing on the good reputation all the Mouz players and management have built so far (not just because of this tweet).
At the end of the day, if they don't like it, they can have their own award posts at their respective websites, wherever those may be. I'm sure they have a large community following and quality (and unbiased) writers around... somewhere.
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On January 02 2012 05:43 DueSs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 05:40 Phayt wrote:
A twitter rivalry does not compare to legit rivalry between players at major tournaments
I don't understand how anyone could think it does
Speaking of twitter that is kind of a classless comment from mousesports. It is entirely expected that forum posters will bicker about this kind of thing, but I don't see why they would want to participate in that silliness
I disagree. I'd have the same reaction if I were Mouz; class would have been to have nominated them (or OBVIOUSLY have at least mentioned them) in the team award.
Well then you would be just as wrong. I'm not going to argue about whether or not they should have been mentioned because it's entirely irrelevant. Mouz is not entitled to anything, and even if they believe that they've been snubbed or something silly like that, it should be beneath them to get snippy and belittle other teams in a public manner, over a little award blurb.
It's just inappropriate. That kind of stuff is the territory of nobody forum posters, not a professional team's official media outlet.
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EPT
